Archaeology Thread

[skganji]

Barhut Stupa and Inscriptions. An excellent book by Alexandar Cunningham . Readers with google account can easily access this book. Will try to post more pictures from this book soon if possible.

Try this link
http://books.google.com/books?id=Eig...0stupa&f=false

Readers with google account can alternatively access this book at the following link.

http://books.google.com/ebooks/reade...&output=reader

[skganji]

The Images and the stories from Barhut Stupa

Barhut Idasalaguha Scene. Source : British Library.



Barhut Pillar With Jetavana Scene.



Barhut Pillars from South West Quadrant.



Barhut Eastern Gateway or Torana Restored. Source : A. Cunningham.

.


Inscriptions on the Pillars of the Eatern Gateway or Torana ( See the above image).
Line 1 : Suganam raje rajno Gagi-putasa VISA-DEVASA.
Line 2 : Pautena, Gotiputasa AGA-RAJASA putena
Line 3: Vachhi-putena DHANA-BHUTINA karitam toranam
Line 4 :Sila Kammata cha upanna

Translation : "In the Kingdom of Sugana(Srughna) this Toran, with its ornamented stonework and plinth, was caused to be made by king Dhana-Bhuti, son of Vachhi and Aga Raja son of Goti, and grandson of Visa Deva son of Gagi."

Translation by A.Cunningham : This ornamental gateway has been erected by the king of Shrugna,Dhanabuti,born of [the Queen of] the Vatsa family, [and] son of Aga Raja , born of [the queen of] the Gota family, [and] grandson of king [Visa-Deva], born of the [ the queen of] the Gaga race , and the spiritual has been gained [ thereby]".

[skganji]

Silver Coinage of the Kunindas ( ca.2nd - 1st Century BC).. It contains a Brahmi-Kharoshti Inscription
Prakrit Inscription : "Rajnah Kunindasya Amoghabhutisya maharajasya".
English Meaning : Great King Amoghabhuti, of the Kunindas.



Source :
http://www.ancientcoins.ca/kuninda/kuninda.htm

[skganji]

Excavated ancient shiva shrine at Ahichhatra , belonging to 4th century A.D( courtesy ASI).

[Marathaman]

Source for the image ? That looks like a stupa. Also there wasn't much of shrine-building back the 4th cent. AD.

[skganji]

Originally Posted by Marathaman

Source for the image ? That looks like a stupa. Also there wasn't much of shrine-building back the 4th cent. AD.

It is not Stupa. It has a huge 10-15 feet shiva lingam on the top of this ancient structure( told to me by the chief archaeologist). I got this image from an archaeologist who has been excavating at Ahichhatra since 2007. It is definitely not a buddisht structure. This structure has other icons like Ganga ( Makara vahana ) standing on crocodile , Yamuna ( Kurma vahana) standing on Turtle depicted on the entrance panel on Terracato carvings. See below in this image. It looks like the Gupta dynasty has built it as from the archaeologist who excavated this site told me and they used baked bricks and Terracota objects to build this temple ( there is no stone much used in this construction) . However, the shiva Lingam itself I am not sure of what kind of material did they use to carve it. It may be a stone and it is the reason why nobody had stolen it because of the heavy size ( when other shiva lingams) from this temple were already stolen in the absence of a guard.

[GollumGollum]

Originally Posted by barrykul

Quite revealing, by a Brit, who finds India was trading with other cultures, whilst the Brits were living in cave like dwellings during these times...

Originally Posted by Marathaman

. The British isles have had trading links with the rest of Europe and other parts of the world for millennia.

Originally Posted by barrykul

Evidence? Grand statements from a failed Indologist does not cut it!

You need to learn more about world history.



Knap of Howar, Scotland (3700 BC) - third oldest surviving building in the world according to an unconfirmed Wikipedia list:









West Kennet Long Barrow, England (3600 BC):









Skara Brae, Scotland (3180 BC) - fourth oldest surviving building in the world according to an unconfirmed Wikipedia list:









Newgrange, Ireland (3100 BC) - fifth oldest surviving building in the world according to an unconfirmed Wikipedia list:









Stonehenge Phase III, England (2600 BC):









Avebury, England (2600 BC):









Silbury Hill, England (2400 BC):









Tin Mining/Trading, England (1600 BC):









Crannog Lake Dwellings, Ireland & Scotland (1200 BC):







Iron Age Hill Forts, England (750 BC):










The aritcle you posted, by comparison, talked about trade in 300 BC.

[barrykul]

Originally Posted by GollumGollum

You need to learn more about world history.

Dude, what is your point in posting these pictures. I see Nothing! Yes there are pile of pretty stones strewn about and they resemble cave dwelling. You need modern civilization structures like those of the pyramids or inca temples or the ancient relics like those in the Indus Valley civilization.

Face the facts: the Brits were the retards of the world during a time when there was excellence in civilization in many other places around the world.

[GollumGollum]

You don't seem to understand much about early European history, so I would recommend reading a well-established book on the subject of British pre-history before commenting on the topic any further. Your claim was inaccurate, and when Marathaman pointed out the academically-acknolwedged facts, you insulted him. When I pointed the mistake out, you made a racist comment toward the British.

Your original post said nothing about the Indus Valley Civilization. What you infact claimed, was that Brythons were living in "cave like dwellings" in an era when they were infact not. They infact lived quite similarily to the majority of Indians at the time, in small thatched-roof houses, although Maurya Dynasty India was indeed more advanced as a civilization. The Brythons had infact been living in houses for upward of 2000 years before the time you indicated they were living in cave-like surroundings. You also implied that they did not trade with other cultures, when they infact did via well-attested sea routes. Their main export was tin.

[barrykul]

Originally Posted by GollumGollum

You don't seem to understand much about early European history, blah, blah...

Dude, first and foremost this the Indian Archaeology Thread, so don't pollute it with fairy tales from Britain and your selective bias. Remove all those pictures because it is OT.

Whatever civilization, the brits had (during ancient times) were due to the Romans who conquered them 2000 years ago and the fact remains that the ancient brits were retards of the world when the rest were blazing ahead.

[jas29]

You can not compare pre 1000 AD India with the UK. India for 4000 years was way ahead of the UK. Just like from 1600 upto the present day the UK is way ahead of India, despite recent progress.

[Marathaman]

Originally Posted by skganji

It is not Stupa...

It may have been later converted to a shaivite shrine, but that's a different matter. The stepped structure is unmistakably a buddhist stupa.

Anyways, it seems that Ahichhatra was infact a major buddhist and trading centre ( the two tended to go together ) on the silk route.

[helloABCD]

Thank you for existing, Marathaman. Also for all the awesome links.

I wish Indian Archaeology buffs would be more humble. Its not a contest!

[skganji]

Originally Posted by Marathaman

It may have been later converted to a shaivite shrine, but that's a different matter. The stepped structure is unmistakably a buddhist stupa.

Anyways, it seems that Ahichhatra was infact a major buddhist and trading centre ( the two tended to go together ) on the silk route.

I don't want to create a big scene here with my disagreement. However, none of the pictures the chief archaeologist showed me from Ahichhatra contained any traces of Buddihst relics like railings or toranas ( like in Barhut) . All the pictures he showed me showed contained the entrance flanked by deitified ganga-yamuna standing on their vehicles , numerous shiva-lingas which are either broken or stolen. In the words of the chief archaeologist , this is undoubtedly a Hindu shaivite temple. I will be meeting him in 2014 again, will try to get many more details and photos and will post again.

[Marathaman]

Well if your archaeologist friend is right then history will have to be rewritten considerably.

Till date, the earliest stand-alone Hindu shrines date from the Gupta period (the "Golden Age" ) around 500 AD.

Before that, small shrines were built as parts of larger Buddhist complexes consisting of a stupa as the centerpiece.

[skganji]

Ancient History is always changing with new archaeological excavations. I am hoping I will be able to gather more evidence from the chief archaeologist when I meet him again. Even before that he may publish his research work which may be available for everyone.

[kingkobra]

Originally Posted by Marathaman

Well if your archaeologist friend is right then history will have to be rewritten considerably.

Till date, the earliest stand-alone Hindu shrines date from the Gupta period (the "Golden Age" ) around 500 AD.

Before that, small shrines were built as parts of larger Buddhist complexes consisting of a stupa as the centerpiece.

This is mainly because Hinduism is a religion which came after Budhism and Jainism..Religion that predates Budhism and Jainism was called as Vedic Dharma which had no idols and was a monotheistic religion...

Today's Hinduism as we see it has huge influence of this old vedic dharma along with Budhism and Jainism,

Many old stupas where converted into temples during Pusyamitra Sungas reign..

[dayalbaba]

Many old stupas where converted into temples during Pusyamitra Sungas reign..

this is old theory and has been discarded even by oh so pure secularists like romila thapar.

[Marathaman]

The Chinese pilgrim Hsuan Tsang wrote about Achchitara in detail, describing the fort, stupa, town and history. This is probably that stupa, and like most other holy places, people continued to worship there after the decline of Buddhism. Naturally, they turned it into a Hindu holy place. This is quite common. You'll find many places now occupied by Hindu temples or mentioned as Buddhist pilgrimage sites in the ancient record.

Also, there is no precedent for such a bizarre structure consisting of a stepped-pyramid with an exposed shivaling on top. Such things don't just pop out of thin air. It takes centuries for traditions to develop and this kind of temple has no corresponding tradition.

Early Hindu temples followed very strict guildelines about the plan, size, shape, material, construction methods etc. Example is Dashavatara Vishnu temple in Deogarh MP, dating from the Gupta period.

That is what early Hindu temples looked like:

Bhitargaon:


Sirpur:


Deogarh:


Temples were used in both Hindu and Buddhist tradition, like Mahabodhi temple (also built during Gupta rule). But the Buddhists were possibly not bound by the restrictive rules used to limit the size and height of Hindu temples. Hence:

[skganji]

I understand what you are saying. Systematic construction of temples might have started in Gupta period, however, Hinduism being a older faith and co-existed along with Buddhism from 4th century B.C till Gupta period, must have have some ways of worshipping their gods using some religious structure ( may not exactly be like the temples you posted above). One such structure is referred in an ancient inscription about worship of Sankarsana and Vasudeva in 1st century B.C ( Hathibada and Ghosundi) . More about this inscription can be seen in my post.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...9&postcount=80

Also, I haven't seen any other shiva temple in northern India during gupta period where a shiva temple is flanked by terracota figurines of Yamuna and ganga standing on turtle and crocodile . These terracota figurines looked like the terrocota figurines from Sunga dynasty .