TRANSPORT | Metrolink

[Bradfordian2]

Originally Posted by Manchester77

just a quick question - since oldham opened for business, has there been any T68s operating the Oldham - Chorlton service???

(Kriis101) No, they can't.

I wonder if you could tell me
1) why they can't;
2) which section(s) of track they are barred from.

[iheartthenew]

They are not certified/cleared to go past Newton Heath by NR for electrical interference etc. they can run on the SML though.

[kriis101]

Originally Posted by Bradfordian2

(Kriis101) No, they can't.

I wonder if you could tell me
1) why they can't;
2) which section(s) of track they are barred from.

Between the Central Park Finback bridge and Newton Heath & Moston.
Metrolink only paid for the EMC tests on SINGLE M5000s (for NR benefit), so until they do have some money, no doubles to Oldham/Rochdale (unless one is a dead unit).

[Freel07]

Originally Posted by Bradfordian2

(Kriis101) No, they can't.

I wonder if you could tell me
1) why they can't;
2) which section(s) of track they are barred from.

As already stated they are not allowed on the Oldham Line beyond Central Park because they were not submitted for EMC clearance from Network Rail probably bearing in mind their short life.

There is now also an internal restriction which prohibits their use on SML which I understand is part of the ongoing M5000 ride quality study. The idea being that if T68s are kept off the SML and ORL it will help prove or disprove the theory about the effect of the T68 fleet on track wear. This is one reason why they don't operate from Old Trafford.

[Kofieye]

So, as a not-very-well travelled Manc who wants to get out further afield, I for the first time braved a trip to London. Although it wasn't particularly transport-centric (with the familly) I must say I feel, disappointed. I always thought Metrolink was a very good urban transport system, but it was small and somewhat underfunded. But it was expanding and many of the problems (overcrowding, poor reliability, lack of information) were being or would be solved over the next few years. However, it now appears to me to be slow, massively under capacity and effective passenger information is practically non-existent.

A big chunk of the part of my heart that loved Manchester's trams has been broken. When I start using it to commute again, I fear I will demand more of a paid-for "service" from it than simply enjoying every possible chance to use it. I have gained a little bit of empathy for the Metrolink haters.


One query I've been meaning to mention, as a separate issue, the doors on trams, why is there such a long pause (sometimes 2-3 secs) betewen the vehicle coming to a stop and the doors opening, and again after the doors are closed and before the tram accelerates. Is there a specific system which prevents the doors from opening while the tram is in motion? It seems like significant wasted time to me. This is in evidence on all types of tram, but M5000s are the worst, because they take so LONG to open.

[LNGCats]

Originally Posted by Kofieye

So, as a not-very-well travelled Manc who wants to get out further afield, I for the first time braved a trip to London. Although it wasn't particularly transport-centric (with the familly) I must say I feel, disappointed. I always thought Metrolink was a very good urban transport system, but it was small and somewhat underfunded. But it was expanding and many of the problems (overcrowding, poor reliability, lack of information) were being or would be solved over the next few years. However, it now appears to me to be slow, massively under capacity and effective passenger information is practically non-existent.

A big chunk of the part of my heart that loved Manchester's trams has been broken. When I start using it to commute again, I fear I will demand more of a paid-for "service" from it than simply enjoying every possible chance to use it. I have gained a little bit of empathy for the Metrolink haters.

One query I've been meaning to mention, as a separate issue, the doors on trams, why is there such a long pause (sometimes 2-3 secs) betewen the vehicle coming to a stop and the doors opening, and again after the doors are closed and before the tram accelerates. Is there a specific system which prevents the doors from opening while the tram is in motion? It seems like significant wasted time to me. This is in evidence on all types of tram, but M5000s are the worst, because they take so LONG to open.

Comparing any public transport system anywhere in the world to London will leave you looking on enviously.

The amount of money spent subsidising they're transport is phenomenal, £4.5BILLION per year subsidy alone for the tube compared to zero for Metrolink.

They also have flows of our passengers along transport corridors that make Manchester seem like a small countryside hamlet.

[laser2k]

I believe the driver is supposed to make a visual check that the doors are free and no-one is trapped in them before moving off, which should take a few seconds.

[Kofieye]

Originally Posted by LNGCats

Comparing any public transport system anywhere in the world to London will leave you looking on enviously.

The amount of money spent subsidising they're transport is phenomenal, £4.5BILLION per year subsidy alone for the tube compared to zero for Metrolink.

They also have flows of our passengers along transport corridors that make Manchester seem like a small countryside hamlet.

I knoooow I've heard as much. But the urban population is only... what, 4x ours? How can there be so much more travelling! Somone said to me that LU carries more passengers per day than the whole of the NR network put together and I was like "Yeah right. Of course it does(!)" and um, well. Yeah.

[LNGCats]

The urban population may be 4 times the size of Manchester but the number of people focused and centred on London is probably at least ten times that in Manchester.

[future.architect]

Originally Posted by Kofieye

I knoooow I've heard as much. But the urban population is only... what, 4x ours? How can there be so much more travelling! Somone said to me that LU carries more passengers per day than the whole of the NR network put together and I was like "Yeah right. Of course it does(!)" and um, well. Yeah.

It's not just population that you need to consider, it is density.

[Kofieye]

Originally Posted by LNGCats

The urban population may be 4 times the size of Manchester but the number of people focused and centred on London is probably at least ten times that in Manchester.

Getting into murky water here... According to the 2005 (hurry up 2011 census!) data in this Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater...ter_Urban_Area ): its about 9.2 million in the travel-to-work area. But the figure of 2.2 million (admittedly in 2001) is only for the Greater Manchester Urban Area; has the ONS ever done a travel to work study for the third-largest urban conurbation in the country? I bet loads of people commute from Glossop or Marple, but these aren't included.

One imagines luck plays its part (that really handy vast network of tunnels under the city) and political pressure (the Olympic's too...).

[LNGCats]

But the number of people centred and focused on London is many times greater than that.

London had it's system well before any Olympic bid.

[Dan1983]

T68'S? Not too sure how reliable my source is with this info but heard today that a few more of the fleet are to be withdrawn throughout this week. Just wondering if anyone can confirm this??

Also has 1010 been out since last week?? Didin't sound in great shape on its approach down the Timperley line. It was left in Altrincham station for a good few hours last Tues on the 2nd set of tracks that are rarely used!

[kriis101]

Originally Posted by Dan1983

T68'S? Not too sure how reliable my source is with this info but heard today that a few more of the fleet are to be withdrawn throughout this week. Just wondering if anyone can confirm this??

Also has 1010 been out since last week?? Didin't sound in great shape on its approach down the Timperley line. It was left in Altrincham station for a good few hours last Tues on the 2nd set of tracks that are rarely used!

1010's withdrawal was going to be delayed for a bit, but with it's failure earlier this week, it may of had it's last trip out. - That's what I was told.

[Freel07]

Originally Posted by Kofieye

One query I've been meaning to mention, as a separate issue, the doors on trams, why is there such a long pause (sometimes 2-3 secs) betewen the vehicle coming to a stop and the doors opening, and again after the doors are closed and before the tram accelerates. Is there a specific system which prevents the doors from opening while the tram is in motion? It seems like significant wasted time to me. This is in evidence on all types of tram, but M5000s are the worst, because they take so LONG to open.

Some of the delay will be due to the driver response time before the door enable is operated. Yes there is an interlock preventing the tram moving off before the doors are proved locked and inherently this will prevent them being released until the tram is stationary, this is an ORR requirement.

[LNGCats]

Is it me, or are there fewer trams failures at the moment? Is the replacement program having an effect?

[wythenshawe_tram_fan]

Originally Posted by LNGCats

Is it me, or are there fewer trams failures at the moment? Is the replacement program having an effect?

Think it is. I have spotted that as well.

[kriis101]

Originally Posted by Freel07

Some of the delay will be due to the driver response time before the door enable is operated. Yes there is an interlock preventing the tram moving off before the doors are proved locked and inherently this will prevent them being released until the tram is stationary, this is an ORR requirement.

Yep, someone posted a photo of the switch in an M5000 a week or two ago.

[pr1berske]

Originally Posted by LNGCats

Is it me, or are there fewer trams failures at the moment? Is the replacement program having an effect?

And that's how you tempt fate

[LNGCats]

Originally Posted by pr1berske

And that's how you tempt fate

Pretty sure me posting stuff on here has zero affect on tram reliability