TRANSPORT | High Speed Rail - Page 115

LNGCats · August 19th, 2012, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin S

Joe, I thought you were a railway engineer not a therapist. (Though I can see the need for that on this thread).

Shame I can't encourage anyone to think well of my situation.

Maybe that should be telling you something.

Joseph_Locke · August 19th, 2012, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LNGCats

Maybe that should be telling you something.

"Engineer" and "Manchester" are both conversation-improving summaries. I do do a fair bit of "expectation management" as part of my work, but I don't meet that many conspiracy theorists as part of my normal duties - its quite novel.

That said, some of more misguided "reopening"-based local pressure groups are hugely entertaining, unless you are physically in a meeting with them...

tomo90 · August 19th, 2012, 07:42 PM

Martin, you are typing to a brick wall. You are correct in saying that they have a bias against Liverpool (some of them anyway) but Manchester is the rail centre of the NW because the trams etc will not be included in the stats you posted. I personally do not expect HS2 to extend to Lime Street but what some Mancunians do not understand is that we want the best service for Liverpool so we wont be at a bigger disadvantage to Manchester than what we already are generally.

In regards to Preston, you know what you are doing by comparing Liverpool to Preston.

Another point is some posters stating that Manc is bigger than Liverpool so should receive a better service. That is fine but Liverpool is bigger than Leeds but Leeds looks like it may receive a better service than Liverpool. Hmmm!

LNGCats · August 19th, 2012, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomo90

Martin, you are typing to a brick wall. You are correct in saying that they have a bias against Liverpool (some of them anyway) but Manchester is the rail centre of the NW because the trams etc will not be included in the stats you posted. I personally do not expect HS2 to extend to Lime Street but what some Mancunians do not understand is that we want the best service for Liverpool so we wont be at a bigger disadvantage to Manchester than what we already are generally.

In regards to Preston, you know what you are doing by comparing Liverpool to Preston.

Another point is some posters stating that Manc is bigger than Liverpool so should receive a better service. That is fine but Liverpool is bigger than Leeds but Leeds looks like it may receive a better service than Liverpool. Hmmm!

What about the demand tomo ?

Is the comparison between Liverpool and Preston any different from the Liverpool and Manchester for long distance rail journeys?

Simple question, you have the facts and figures.

Also, who did not want the best service fire for Liverpool?

Oh an a single person, from London, said population was important, no one else. No Manc.

tomo90 · August 19th, 2012, 07:59 PM

The mistake that you are making with me is that I have stated plenty of times that I understand why Manchester will receive a better service due to factors like demand. It is a bigger business centre for example.

However, some places with less demand and/or places which are smaller than Liverpool look like they will receive a better service from HS2 and I dont think thats right. Leeds, Glasgow, Sheffield and Newcastle spring to mind.

LNGCats · August 19th, 2012, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomo90

The mistake that you are making with me is that I have stated plenty of times that I understand why Manchester will receive a better service due to factors like demand. It is a bigger business centre for example.

However, some places with less demand and/or places which are smaller than Liverpool look like they will receive a better service from HS2 and I dont think thats right. Leeds, Glasgow, Sheffield and Newcastle spring to mind.

Right to the point, so when Martin claims demand from Liverpool and Manchester is comparable, why do you not pick him up on this?

Why accuse those of highlighting this absurdity of being tapped?

Aaronj09 · August 19th, 2012, 08:05 PM

There's far more demand from Leeds to London and London Leeds than the Liverpool equivalent. Population has nothing to do with it. If a place has a larger economy, and a larger business base and a stronger economy then the case for HS2 will be greater. Liverpool is awkwardly positioned and has less overall demand to places like London. Easy and simple.

LNGCats · August 19th, 2012, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaronj09

There's far more demand from Leeds to London and London Leeds than the Liverpool equivalent. Population has nothing to do with it. If a place has a larger economy, and a larger business base and a stronger economy then the case for HS2 will be greater. Liverpool is awkwardly positioned and has less overall demand to places like London. Easy and simple.

Careful, you will be accused of being a Liverpool hater.

tomo90 · August 19th, 2012, 08:08 PM

Its a smaller place when other posters on here suggest that Manchester being bigger than Liverpool means it deserves a better service. This is the only reason why I am using it as an example.

There isnt a huge demand difference according to the report anyway.

tomo90 · August 19th, 2012, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LNGCats

Right to the point, so when Martin claims demand from Liverpool and Manchester is comparable, why do you not pick him up on this?

Why accuse those of highlighting this absurdity of being tapped?

Did I not post above that he has made a mistake in stating that Liverpool is the rail capital of the NW?

LNGCats · August 19th, 2012, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomo90

Did I not post above that he has made a mistake in stating that Liverpool is the rail capital of the NW?

Only after many prods.

Straight onto it when a Manc does it aren't you?

Not going to comment on Martin's view that demand is comparable from both cities?

LNGCats · August 19th, 2012, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin S

Arguing anything on the Manchester forum is always a case of three steps forward and two back because of the emotional need on behalf of some Manchester forummers to believe in the primacy of their city. in the face of all the facts. However, the cold, hard facts of the Rail Regulator station usage statistics prove beyond reasonable doubt that Liverpool is the main rail centre of the North West and that should inform all future discussion about HS2.

tomo, surprised you didn't accuse Martin of being tapped after this post?

Was he not massively over egging Liverpool? Something you jump on when a Manc does it?

Something that scousers never do?

LNGCats · August 19th, 2012, 08:14 PM

The above two posts have appeared in the wrong order.

tomo - wondering why you jump on Manc's for over egging Manchester but not so much with scousers?

Not going to comment on Martin's suggestion that demand is comparable from both Manchester and Liverpool?

Won't even register with you that he is doing exactly what you consider Manc's to do more than anyone else - bigging up his home town in a bonkers way.

tomo90 · August 19th, 2012, 08:24 PM

I believe all the core cities should have equal access to HS2 so I sympathised with his points.

LNGCats · August 19th, 2012, 08:27 PM

You believe, like he does, Liverpool has comparable demand for long distance rail to Manchester - the point that caused the discussion??? If not, why have you not picked him up on this clear over egging of Liverpool? You seem to have double standards with regards this.

Not whether every city should get the best possible service that everyone has agreed with.

And you think I am tapped

John07 · August 19th, 2012, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomo90

I believe all the core cities should have equal access to HS2 so I sympathised with his points.

It is a question of priority.

Birmingham is the destination for the first phase, Manchester and Leeds for the second phase, Glasgow and Edinburgh for the third (maybe withNewcastle as well).

Liverpool along with Bristol will come after that.

LNGCats · August 19th, 2012, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John07

It is a question of priority.

Birmingham is the destination for the first phase, Manchester and Leeds for the second phase, Glasgow and Edinburgh for the third (maybe withNewcastle as well).

Liverpool along with Bristol will come after that.

Careful, tomo will be accusing Edinburgh posters of hating scousers soon with posts like that!

tomo90 · August 19th, 2012, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LNGCats

Careful, tomo will be accusing Edinburgh posters of hating scousers soon with posts like that!

I have never even accussed Mancunians of that so stop making up pie in the sky stories.

tomo90 · August 19th, 2012, 08:47 PM

Liverpool has greater demand than Glasgow and Edinburgh so why should we wait until after them places?

LNGCats · August 19th, 2012, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LNGCats

You believe, like he does, Liverpool has comparable demand for long distance rail to Manchester - the point that caused the discussion???

Tomo why so reluctant to answer this?

August 19th, 2012, 08:05 PM	#2287
Aaronj09 Not a Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Leeds Posts: 7,666 Likes (Received): 211	There's far more demand from Leeds to London and London Leeds than the Liverpool equivalent. Population has nothing to do with it. If a place has a larger economy, and a larger business base and a stronger economy then the case for HS2 will be greater. Liverpool is awkwardly positioned and has less overall demand to places like London. Easy and simple. __________________ CONFIRMED SIGHTINGS OF POSITIVE AND REALISTIC CASES FOR SCOTLAND TO BECOME INDEPENDENT: 0

August 19th, 2012, 08:14 PM	#2293
LNGCats Registered User Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 11,035 Likes (Received): 116	The above two posts have appeared in the wrong order. tomo - wondering why you jump on Manc's for over egging Manchester but not so much with scousers? Not going to comment on Martin's suggestion that demand is comparable from both Manchester and Liverpool? Won't even register with you that he is doing exactly what you consider Manc's to do more than anyone else - bigging up his home town in a bonkers way. __________________ I really do know fuck all 2+2=4 no matter what your opinion is My favourite colour being red makes me no more or less intelligent than someone who prefers green.

August 19th, 2012, 08:27 PM	#2295
LNGCats Registered User Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 11,035 Likes (Received): 116	You believe, like he does, Liverpool has comparable demand for long distance rail to Manchester - the point that caused the discussion??? If not, why have you not picked him up on this clear over egging of Liverpool? You seem to have double standards with regards this. Not whether every city should get the best possible service that everyone has agreed with. And you think I am tapped __________________ I really do know fuck all 2+2=4 no matter what your opinion is My favourite colour being red makes me no more or less intelligent than someone who prefers green.

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August 19th, 2012, 07:42 PM	#2283
tomo90 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Liverpool Posts: 2,111 Likes (Received): 40	Martin, you are typing to a brick wall. You are correct in saying that they have a bias against Liverpool (some of them anyway) but Manchester is the rail centre of the NW because the trams etc will not be included in the stats you posted. I personally do not expect HS2 to extend to Lime Street but what some Mancunians do not understand is that we want the best service for Liverpool so we wont be at a bigger disadvantage to Manchester than what we already are generally. In regards to Preston, you know what you are doing by comparing Liverpool to Preston. Another point is some posters stating that Manc is bigger than Liverpool so should receive a better service. That is fine but Liverpool is bigger than Leeds but Leeds looks like it may receive a better service than Liverpool. Hmmm!

August 19th, 2012, 07:59 PM	#2285
tomo90 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Liverpool Posts: 2,111 Likes (Received): 40	The mistake that you are making with me is that I have stated plenty of times that I understand why Manchester will receive a better service due to factors like demand. It is a bigger business centre for example. However, some places with less demand and/or places which are smaller than Liverpool look like they will receive a better service from HS2 and I dont think thats right. Leeds, Glasgow, Sheffield and Newcastle spring to mind.

August 19th, 2012, 08:08 PM	#2289
tomo90 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Liverpool Posts: 2,111 Likes (Received): 40	Its a smaller place when other posters on here suggest that Manchester being bigger than Liverpool means it deserves a better service. This is the only reason why I am using it as an example. There isnt a huge demand difference according to the report anyway.

August 19th, 2012, 08:24 PM	#2294
tomo90 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Liverpool Posts: 2,111 Likes (Received): 40	I believe all the core cities should have equal access to HS2 so I sympathised with his points.

August 19th, 2012, 08:47 PM	#2299
tomo90 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Liverpool Posts: 2,111 Likes (Received): 40	Liverpool has greater demand than Glasgow and Edinburgh so why should we wait until after them places?