India's Space Sector updates II

[raakshas]

Originally Posted by Gudavalli

From the Red Fort to the Red Planet: India's Mars Mission announced by PM[/SIZE]

Hope this mission will make significant discoveries like the Chandrayaan mission.

From the Red Fort to the Red Planet, this ambitious mission that could well be the start of a new Asian space race. And with India and China racing to Mars, who will get there first?

Getting there first is not what matters. What's important is what we do after getting there. Take a look at China's and India's Moon missions. China launched its Chang'e 1 mission a year before India's Chandrayaan. But it didn't make any significant observations or produced valuable scientific data. Chandrayaan, in contrast, has made game changing discoveries like water molecules on the Moon's surface, in the Moon's exosphere etc. It has also provided a gold mine of data. Many scientific papers were published on observations made by analysing this data, which is still studied by scientists.

[MeMumbaikar]

more than the race itself its the technology needed to get there is what i am interested in

[Licit Mortal]

I honestly don't think that the technology to get to mars would be more sophisticated and complicated than the technology to reach the moon. May be we need additional fuel stages/boosters to travel for a farther distance, but I believe the moon mission to be quite challenging than a mars mission. Rover to the moon would be quite an achievement. Chandrayaan 2 should be prioritized. We need to know and show the world what surprise lies in store on the dark side of the moon.

[MeMumbaikar]

ha

yeah i guess so.


More than these rovers, India needs to try for a manned mission to the moon. Ie takes steps towards it.

Like first sending people into orbit etc.

[krishnancv]

Do we really need this Mars mission now? When the economy is in a down trend?

[jaadu]

Its not very expensive (~ $80 million) and we cannot stop development if economy slows .. these technologies take years to develop and enrich the economy and the society !! Need to have long term vision on these things.

[Licit Mortal]

Originally Posted by krishnancv

Do we really need this Mars mission now? When the economy is in a down trend?

In my analysis, it is sheer regional politics that makes India deviate from its original plan of proceeding with Chandrayaan 2.(i really wish they do not postpone Chandrayaan 2 from its original planned schedule of 2014)

India knows that China's moon exploration program is at an advanced level compared to ours. Chinese have already sent 2 orbiters Chang e 1 and Chang e 2 in 2007 and 2010 respectively and their rover would be landing the moon in 2013. Even if we decide to go ahead with Chandrayaan 2, our proposed carrier GSLV is still not proven to be very reliable, the rover design is still at its nascent stage, due to our inadequate experience with rovers and the recent failure of Russian lander to Phobos, the technical knowledge of which Russia planned to use in the lander that is proposed to be sent with the Chandrayaan 2 mission. Furthermore, even if we succeed in this 2014 mission(Absolutely impossible in my opinion!), China would have already achieved the same a year before us and we would still be behind them in the race to the moon.

On the other hand, as far as the mars exploration is concerned, only the Soviets, Americans and the ESA have successfully completed oribital missions to mars so far. Success did not come that easily for these people. In the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s the soviets had a large number of failures before they succeeded. Out of nearly 15 attempts, the soviets had only one complete success and a few partial successes. Their rovers crashed terribly and most of their landers were never deployed. They never succeeded completely with their rovers, while the Americans took the lead in the space race with their repeated successes, especially with their Mariner, Viking missions and now in 2012 the rover mission. Then came the Japanese and they tried an orbiter called Planet B in 1998, which never entered the mars orbit and hence failed. Then the ESA succeeded with their orbiter in 2003. The Chinese in collaboration with the Russians tried a mars mission called yingo orbiter in 2011, where the Russian space agency wanted to study the Martian moon Phobos with their lander, but unfortunately the mission failed to leave the earth's orbit and could not succeed.

This leaves an exciting opportunity for ISRO to take up the mars mission and if they could successfully send an orbiter to the mars, India would be the first country in Asia and the 4th space agency in the world after SSP, NASA and ESA to do so and to do it with such comfort that the Russians are struggling to do till date. By doing so, India aims to lead the race to mars atleast in this region, a feat that it cannot achieve with its moon missions.


Just my observation.

[raakshas]

Originally Posted by Licit Mortal

In my analysis, it is sheer regional politics that makes India deviate from its original plan of proceeding with Chandrayaan 2.(i really wish they do not postpone Chandrayaan 2 from its original planned schedule of 2014)

India knows that China's moon exploration program is at an advanced level compared to ours. Chinese have already sent 2 orbiters Chang e 1 and Chang e 2 in 2007 and 2010 respectively and their rover would be landing the moon in 2013. Even if we decide to go ahead with Chandrayaan 2, our proposed carrier GSLV is still not proven to be very reliable, the rover design is still at its nascent stage, due to our inadequate experience with rovers and the recent failure of Russian lander to Phobos, the technical knowledge of which Russia planned to use in the lander that is proposed to be sent with the Chandrayaan 2 mission. Furthermore, even if we succeed in this 2014 mission(Absolutely impossible in my opinion!), China would have already achieved the same a year before us and we would still be behind them in the race to the moon.

:facepalm:

[Licit Mortal]

??????

[Gudavalli]

India's Mars mission sparks another UK aid row

London: The announcement of India's Mars mission has sparked another round of tabloid-driven controversy over the wisdom of sending 280 million pounds of British aid to India every year when the country can afford such costly space programmes.

The mission to Mars was announced by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh during the Independence Day speech in New Delhi on Wednesday.

Sending British aid overseas has become a sensitive issue in the context of recession, deep funding cuts and major job losses as the David Cameron government deals with a large budget deficit. However, the budget for British aid overseas has not been reduced, prompting demands from several MPs and sections of the public to stop sending aid to increasingly prosperous countries like India.

An example of the sensation-driven tabloid reporting is a report in today's Daily Express, which again raised the wisdom of sending aid to India, with the far-fetched headline, 'We pay for India's rocket to Mars'.

The tabloid reported that anger had "erupted" last night after India announced plans for the Mars mission, and quoted two MPs demanding immediate end to aid for India.

The Cameron government has committed itself to sending 280 million pounds every year to India until 2015. The Daily Express quoted ruling Conservative MP Philip Davies as saying: "This is a perfect illustration of why it is absolutely ridiculous for us to be giving nearly 300 million pounds a year in aid to India.

"If they can afford to have some high-tech mission to Mars they can afford to look after their own people without British taxpayers having to put their hands in their pockets for money they haven't got."

The same report quoted a spokesperson of the Department of International Development as saying that "British aid is not used to fund India's space programme."

But the report went on to quote Paul Nuttall, member of the European Parliament from the UK Independence Party, as saying: "It is utterly galling that our Government begs for India to accept hundreds of millions of pounds of taxpayers' money in aid. The Indians don't want it, the Indians don't need it.

"If India's future is a mission to Mars, our future should be to find more suitable recipients for our aid, maybe our own people."

International Development Secretary Andrew Mitchell has said: "We won't be in India forever, we are walking the final mile. The Indian government has made great progress on tackling poverty but there is still huge need."

[afako]

Originally Posted by Licit Mortal

I honestly don't think that the technology to get to mars would be more sophisticated and complicated than the technology to reach the moon. May be we need additional fuel stages/boosters to travel for a farther distance, but I believe the moon mission to be quite challenging than a mars mission. Rover to the moon would be quite an achievement. Chandrayaan 2 should be prioritized. We need to know and show the world what surprise lies in store on the dark side of the moon.

Orbiting a Probe around another Planet is the Toughest Task.

The First Spaceprobe to Orbit another Planet Mars was Mariner 9 in 1971 only after the Apollos.

Soviet Union achieved around Mars and Venus only in the 80s through Venera Program. Russia is different. Mars 96 Failed and Phobos Grunt Failed. Now the next one is Venera D to Venus in 2016.

Japan: Nozomi Spaceprobe Failed to achieve Orbit in 1998 and again in 2003. Planet C Mission to Venus failed in December 2010, now next chance in 2017.

ESA Achieved around Mars and Venus with the help of NASA.

Now comes India, If India achieves the orbit in September 2014 alng with MAVEN, It will become the Second Country in the World to achieve only after the USA.

Objectives of Indian Mars Mission:

- Launch Deep Space Probes
- Track Communication in Deep Space
- Learn to achieve and alter Trajectories in Deep Space
- Achieve Orbit around Another Planet

These are the Capabilities to be achieved with the Mars Mission.

The Next Windows are 2013, 2016 and 2018. Hence We are Pressing for the 2013 Launch.

[Licit Mortal]

Originally Posted by afako

Orbiting a Probe around another Planet is the Toughest Task.

The First Spaceprobe to Orbit another Planet Mars was Mariner 9 in 1971 only after the Apollos.

Soviet Union achieved around Mars and Venus only in the 80s through Venera Program. Russia is different. Mars 96 Failed and Phobos Grunt Failed. Now the next one is Venera D to Venus in 2016.

Japan: Nozomi Spaceprobe Failed to achieve Orbit in 1998 and again in 2003. Planet C Mission to Venus failed in December 2010, now next chance in 2017.

ESA Achieved around Mars and Venus with the help of NASA.

Now comes India, If India achieves the orbit in September 2014 alng with MAVEN, It will become the Second Country in the World to achieve only after the USA.

Objectives of Indian Mars Mission:

- Launch Deep Space Probes
- Track Communication in Deep Space
- Learn to achieve and alter Trajectories in Deep Space
- Achieve Orbit around Another Planet

These are the Capabilities to be achieved with the Mars Mission.

The Next Windows are 2013, 2016 and 2018. Hence We are Pressing for the 2013 Launch.

That is applicable for any space exploration project. In my opinion if you have a successful vehicle that has proved time and again that it can put satellites on high elliptical orbits with high degree of reliability, then half of the job is done. In earlier missions, this had been the primary problem. Other than this, it is the distance between the two planets and the length of travel to reach Mars, that poses a greater challenge to all the systems on board. If Chandrayaan 1 mission and its components were originally designed to reach mars, the failure of star sensors and poor thermal shielding that caused the mission to be abandoned would have happened very soon after it had reached mars, if we make a modest assumption that the mission would take atleast 300 days to reach mars. Therefore in that case our mars mission would be considered a partial success or even a failure. Furthermore, If you take the case of majority of the failed mars orbiter missions in the past, most of the failures were either launch or component(Planet B mission of Japan in 1998, where a valve failed leading to loss of fuel. This resulted in insufficient acceleration of the spacecraft and therefore unable to put it on the originally planned trajectory. In 2003, the onboard electronics and power systems failed due to powerful solar flares causing the fuel to freeze. Had there been no problems with the fuel and onboard electrionics, it would have been easily put into the mars orbit by the Japanese) failures or due to loss in communication caused by the failure of onboard electronics in the long duration of travel.

Even former ISRO chief Mr. Madhavan Nair feels the same and you can see in the article here

Therefore launching any orbiter in deep space involves a lot of complexities and if we overcome the launching complexities (You can’t point directly at Mars and start firing your rockets, because by the time you got there, Mars would have already moved. Instead, spacecraft launched from Earth need to be pointed at where Mars is going to be. Read more) and consider other complexities between mission to mars and moon, I believe mission to mars is not more complex than mission to then moon, provided we have taken care of the differences in the total fuel required.

Also read post number 1407, where I have explained about all the mars missions by different countries so far.

[Licit Mortal]

Originally Posted by afako

Now comes India, If India achieves the orbit in September 2014 alng with MAVEN, It will become the Second Country in the World to achieve only after the USA.

I don't think so. Mars 2 and Mars 3 orbiters by the Soviet Space Programme were successful.

ESA had a successful Mars Express orbiter mission in 2003 and I do not think Mars express mission had any collaboration with or help from NASA

[Licit Mortal]

Originally Posted by afako

Orbiting a Probe around another Planet is the Toughest Task.

The First Spaceprobe to Orbit another Planet Mars was Mariner 9 in 1971 only after the Apollos.

I wouldn't discount the flybys that took pictures of Mars and sent back. Mariner 4, Mariner 6 and Mariner 7 in the 60s

[afako]

Originally Posted by Licit Mortal

That is applicable for any space exploration project. In my opinion if you have a successful vehicle that has proved time and again that it can put satellites on high elliptical orbits with high degree of reliability, then half of the job is done. In earlier missions, this had been the primary problem. Other than this, it is the distance between the two planets and the length of travel to reach Mars, that poses a greater challenge to all the systems on board.

The Least Risked Trajectory for a Mars Orbiter Mission has been found to be Hohmann Transfer Orbit as it requires least energy to propel to Mars from Earth.



Proper Insulation and proven systems (like Thrusters) will enable a safe mission (as proven by US Track Record).

Today's News:

The venture’s main objective is to demonstrate India’s technological capability to reach Martian orbit

That's why we are hurrying up for 2013 Launch Window. For the 2016 Launch We can send more Instruments and probing the Planet would be the main objective then.

Originally Posted by Licit Mortal

If Chandrayaan 1 mission and its components were originally designed to reach mars, the failure of star sensors and poor thermal shielding that caused the mission to be abandoned would have happened very soon after it had reached mars, if we make a modest assumption that the mission would take atleast 300 days to reach mars. Therefore in that case our mars mission would be considered a partial success or even a failure.

I seriously doubt that. There has never been attempted a Trans Martian Orbit from the Lunar Orbit. It would require Thrusters and a lot of fuel to be burnt.

What you are saying has been attempted from Earth's Orbit to Lunar Orbit in THEMIS and Chang'e 2 from Lunar Orbit to L2 Point.

Originally Posted by Licit Mortal

Furthermore, If you take the case of majority of the failed mars orbiter missions in the past, most of the failures were either launch or component(Planet B mission of Japan in 1998, where a valve failed leading to loss of fuel. This resulted in insufficient acceleration of the spacecraft and therefore unable to put it on the originally planned trajectory. In 2003, the onboard electronics and power systems failed due to powerful solar flares causing the fuel to freeze. Had there been no problems with the fuel and onboard electrionics, it would have been easily put into the mars orbit by the Japanese) failures or due to loss in communication caused by the failure of onboard electronics in the long duration of travel.

Correct. There are many factors failing which a mission could not be a success.

Originally Posted by Licit Mortal

Therefore launching any orbiter in deep space involves a lot of complexities and if we overcome the launching complexities (You can’t point directly at Mars and start firing your rockets, because by the time you got there, Mars would have already moved. Instead, spacecraft launched from Earth need to be pointed at where Mars is going to be. Read more) and consider other complexities between mission to mars and moon, I believe mission to mars is not more complex than mission to then moon, provided we have taken care of the differences in the total fuel required.

Also read post number 1407, where I have explained about all the mars missions by different countries so far.

As said before, Going into the Orbit around Mars is the toughest task more than launching and putting in the correct trajectory as you can cite from History and that is the main objective of Indian Mars Mission.

Originally Posted by Licit Mortal

I don't think so. Mars 2 and Mars 3 orbiters by the Soviet Space Programme were successful.

ESA had a successful Mars Express orbiter mission in 2003 and I do not think Mars express mission had any collaboration with or help from NASA

Soviet Union is Defunct. That is why I also mentioned Russia about Mars 96 and Phobos Grunt Missions.

Still ESA is a representative of EU which is not a Country. When Indian Moon Impact Probe touched the Surface of Moon, India was called the 4th Country to do it (after Soviet Union, USA and Japan), also EU had SMART-1 crashed in 2004 before India.

Originally Posted by Licit Mortal

I wouldn't discount the flybys that took pictures of Mars and sent back. Mariner 4, Mariner 6 and Mariner 7 in the 60s

The Fly-by's are not a big task. Also the time required for a Direct Fly-by of Mars is 85 Days to be Precise as advent from the New Horizons Launch.

Soviet's never achieved much success in Mars. The Venera Program in Venus is Unparalleled even by NASA!

[Licit Mortal]

Hey, I ain't a space engineer or scientist and whatever I know is all from my voluntary reading of different materials due to my interest. Therefore my knowledge is very limited, but you seem to be very experienced and knowledgeable in space science. I thank you for sharing all your wisdom and helping us understand things better.

Keep up the good work.

[afako]

Originally Posted by Licit Mortal

Hey, I ain't a space engineer or scientist and whatever I know is all from my voluntary reading of different materials due to my interest. Therefore my knowledge is very limited, but you seem to be very experienced and knowledgeable in space science. I thank you for sharing all your wisdom and helping us understand things better.

Keep up the good work.

Neither I am!

My aim is not to argue but increase our knowledge through debates.

It is not everyday you come across a person interested in this stuff and It was a good time to talk with you.

[Licit Mortal]

Thank you and feeling is absolutely mutual.

[Gudavalli]

ISRO to hit a century with PSLV-C21 launch

Nellore: The Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) is all set to cross yet another milestone in space technology with the launching of the 720 kg SPOT-6, an advanced French remote- sensing satellite and Proiteres, a 15 kg Japanese spacecraft through the Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle- C21 (PSLV-C21), from the Satish Dhavan Space Centre(SDSC), Sriharikota, 90 km from here on September 9.
This is the 100th mission of ISRO, which has hitherto undertaken 99 missions and include launch of 62 satellites and 37 launch vehicles. Also to its credit is the unmanned mission Chandrayan- 1, since its first mission Aryabhatta in 1975.
A host of dignitaries including prime minister Manmohan Singh, Andhra Pradesh governor ESL Narasimhan, chief minister N Kiran Kumar Reddy, wellknown scientists across the world and others will be descending on Sriharikota to witness the historic experiment.

A 44.4 metre high and 295 tonne weight rocket will lift the 720 kg SPOT-6, an advanced French remote-sensing satellite built by ASTRIUM SAS and Proiteres, a 15-kg Japanese spacecraft. According to SHAR sources the launch is slated at 9.49 am on September 9.
The launch will take place from the second launch pad. If the climate is favourable, PSLV-C21 will be sent into the orbit as per schedule, an ISRO official said.
With a mechanism constituting four stages, the launch vehicle uses solid and liquid propulsion system alternately. The first stage is powered by one of the largest solid propellant boosters in the world, it carries 139 tonne weighed propellant.
A cluster of six strap-ons are attached to the first-stage motor, four of which are to be ignited on the ground and two in the air.
The objective of the ISRO mission is to develop space technology and use it for various national tasks. PSLV-C21 will be an important mission in the annals of the Indian space programme and to prove once again India’s self sufficiency in space research.
The 100th PSLVC21 will give a great boost to the scientists at ISRO, an official added.
According to the sources ISRO chairman Radhakrishnan is likely to visit SHAR to inspect the final preparation for the launch of PSLV-C21 and will hold a high-level meeting with scientists with regards to the mission.

[Gudavalli]

Countdown starts for 100th Indian rocket mission

Chennai: The 51-hour countdown for the 100th mission of the Indian space agency, slated for September 9, began on Friday at 6.51 am at the Sriharikota satellite launch centre in Andhra Pradesh, around 80 km from Chennai, an official said.
Carrying French and Japanese satellites, an Indian rocket - Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle (PSLV) - will blast off at 9.51 am on Sunday.
"The countdown started at 6.51 am and is progressing normally. Everything normal now," an Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) official said.

During the countdown, liquid fuel in the fourth stage/engine and also in the control systems would be filled. On Saturday the fuel for the second stage/engine will be filled, the official said.
The 715-kg French satellite, SPOT 6, which is an earth observation satellite, will be the heaviest foreign satellite to be launched so far by PSLV.
The Japanese satellite weighing 15 kg is called Proiteres.
ISRO's commercial arm Antrix Corporation and French company Astrium SAS compete in the global market for vending remote sensing satellite imageries.
The SPOT and Indian remote sensing satellites are the two leading earth observation satellite series.
According to ISRO, the satellite launch agreement between Antrix and Astrium is part of a long-term agreement signed between the two agencies Sep 2008.
In November 2010, a communication satellite HYLAS was built for a European customer under an agreement between Antrix and Astrium.
The PSLV rocket has successfully launched a total of 53 satellites out of 54 it has carried; ISRO has launched all its 27 foreign satellites successfully.
According to ISRO, India has built 62 satellites and launched 37 rockets, starting from its first satellite Aryabhatta and rocket satellite launch vehicle (SLV).
"ISRO counts each of its rocket flights as a single mission. If our satellite is launched by a foreign rocket then it is counted as single mission. Whereas if an Indian rocket (PSLV) launches multiple satellites built and owned by ISRO then each satellite is counted individually as a mission," an ISRO official said.
Launching foreign satellites or those owned by other Indian organisations are not counted as a mission.
The Sunday flight of PSLV will be counted as single mission.
According to ISRO officials, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh is expected to witness the 100th mission at Sriharikota. He will reach the launch centre Saturday evening.
India began its space journey in 1975 with the launch of Aryabhatta satellite using a Russian rocket.