Another one of my rants...

[Dubai_Boy]

Christopher welcome to the forums and calm down man

[kyle]

Originally Posted by Dubai_Boy

Christopher welcome to the forums and calm down man

I'm sure he's calm. In any case, he's right.

[everythingisone]

Originally Posted by fandango

Israel kills more innocent people violates far more human rights than the terrorists. You've been doing it non stop for 35 years far before the terrorists existed. you simply want their land and will use any excuse to get it. you people are incredibly racist and sick. you force palestinians to live in poverty so jews can have swimming pools. No one besides insane/cynical americans support you.

What a complete idiot you are. Learn history, moron. Rather than spewing your venemous hatred. How do you live with your self? It must be terrible being you.

Gee, fandangos great/stupid "arguments" are better than any sit-com, I've ever seen...

Well, the fence...I think, even if Israel would have built it on the "official" boarders, it would still be criticized by the court/world. So,...Just get rid of these damned settlements! They seem to be the major problem!

[Dale]

Originally Posted by Benni

Gee, fandangos great/stupid "arguments" are better than any sit-com, I've ever seen...

Well, the fence...I think, even if Israel would have built it on the "official" boarders, it would still be criticized by the court/world. So,...Just get rid of these damned settlements! They seem to be the major problem!

Nah, there are Palestinians that would just find another excuse, don't you think ?

[Dale]

Is there another national forum where people from other nations come in to attack the host nation like the Israeli forum ? I don't even see this kind of phenomenon on U.S. forums, and america is purportedly the Great Satan.

Originally Posted by Dale

Nah, there are Palestinians that would just find another excuse, don't you think ?

For sure! But those settlememts are (one of) the most familiar reasons for the conflict, aren't they? If they would be gone, it would be a + for Israel's worldwide crdit, because it made the first step. Maybe, if the Palestinias would still make row, the world - at least a part of it - could realize, who's the actual trouble-maker.

[Dale]

Originally Posted by Benni

For sure! But those settlememts are (one of) the most familiar reasons for the conflict, aren't they? If they would be gone, it would be a + for Israel's worldwide crdit, because it made the first step. Maybe, if the Palestinias would still make row, the world - at least a part of it - could realize, who's the actual trouble-maker.

Yes, I agree that removal of the settlements would amount to a nice concession on the part of Israel. But of course this would not be sufficient for those many Palestinians who would not grant Israel even a right to exist.

Now if the International community were more supportive of Israel, and less demanding of Israel, and expected more of the Palestinians ...

Jerusalem has to remain under international control. Tel Aviv and whatever else can stay the capital of Israel in an independent Israeli state. The Palestinians can have their own state after settlements are removed, and then they should build this wall between the borders of the two states, and one all around Jerusalem, if for no beneficial reason, then just for decor.

Concerning voting of Arab women in Israel, there is no voting in most Arab countries so whether or not women are allowed to vote is not an issue. As for Christopher1's comment about Arabs not helping Palestinians and just hating Israelis, I agree that many Arabs hate Israel and they can be hot-headed when it comes to any discussion relating to Israel and they will curse it repeatedly. But there is a lot of help for Palestinians, and the "oil rich" Gulf states have donated a lot to Palestinian charities and built homes/schools/hospitals for them. There are also many Palestinians who live and work in the Gulf countries.

There are many mistakes on the Arab side, including the terrorist acts of some Palestinians, and the unwillingness of some Arabs to calmly deal with things. But on the Israeli side as well, the mistakes that are done should also be admitted, and some of the excuses that some of you come up with are just as ridiculous as what people like smussuw or whoever says. Israel did win its land in several wars, and right now, it owns it, but looking back at history, there are many small and big things that occurred that are ignored, which really give the Palestinians some truth in their claims. Neither of you are innocent or completely correct.

[RoM]

Bulldozer girl...well said, I agree with you (except for the fence building issue) i dont belive a fence can be a definite solution...

[everythingisone]

Originally Posted by BulldozerGirl

Jerusalem has to remain under international control. Tel Aviv and whatever else can stay the capital of Israel in an independent Israeli state. The Palestinians can have their own state after settlements are removed, and then they should build this wall between the borders of the two states, and one all around Jerusalem, if for no beneficial reason, then just for decor.

Concerning voting of Arab women in Israel, there is no voting in most Arab countries so whether or not women are allowed to vote is not an issue. As for Christopher1's comment about Arabs not helping Palestinians and just hating Israelis, I agree that many Arabs hate Israel and they can be hot-headed when it comes to any discussion relating to Israel and they will curse it repeatedly. But there is a lot of help for Palestinians, and the "oil rich" Gulf states have donated a lot to Palestinian charities and built homes/schools/hospitals for them. There are also many Palestinians who live and work in the Gulf countries.

There are many mistakes on the Arab side, including the terrorist acts of some Palestinians, and the unwillingness of some Arabs to calmly deal with things. But on the Israeli side as well, the mistakes that are done should also be admitted, and some of the excuses that some of you come up with are just as ridiculous as what people like smussuw or whoever says. Israel did win its land in several wars, and right now, it owns it, but looking back at history, there are many small and big things that occurred that are ignored, which really give the Palestinians some truth in their claims. Neither of you are innocent or completely correct.

BDG, why should Jerusalem be under international control? It is the capitol of Israel. The Holy sites where never as open and as available under Arab rule. Why should Israel give up its right to govern itself in its own capitol. No other country is expected to do this.

everythingisone - Because of the controversy over the religious importance of Jerusalem for Jews, Christians, and Muslims, it is best if it remains under international control to avoid any violence that might result from claims of someone taking over control of a holy site or denying access..etc, especially when the holy site is one and the same.

Does the Pope complain about the fact, that Jerusalem is the capital of a Jewish state? No! The only, who make trouble about that fact are - again - the Muslims! If they would behave like humans, it would probably be no problem, if they'd come to their religios sites, just like Christians from all over the world pilgimage to all their churches on Easter, Christmas or Pentecost...Or whenever they think to go there.

[everythingisone]

Originally Posted by BulldozerGirl

everythingisone - Because of the controversy over the religious importance of Jerusalem for Jews, Christians, and Muslims, it is best if it remains under international control to avoid any violence that might result from claims of someone taking over control of a holy site or denying access..etc, especially when the holy site is one and the same.

BDG, your thoight is an idealogical one. The Jewish presence in Jerusalem, which is, without question, the capitol of Israel, has opened up the availability to all 3 major religous sites. Tha was not the case under Arab rule. I do not understand any pragmatic reason to make jerusalem an internationally-controlled city. The only reason to do so is political. And I am against it as a political "solution". Israel should never relinguish control of its capitol for political reasons.

[SpotlessMind]

Originally Posted by Benni

Does the Pope complain about the fact, that Jerusalem is the capital of a Jewish state? No! The only, who make trouble about that fact are - again - the Muslims! If they would behave like humans, it would probably be no problem, if they'd come to their religios sites, just like Christians from all over the world pilgimage to all their churches on Easter, Christmas or Pentecost...Or whenever they think to go there.

It makes me think you have no idea what you're talking about because there is no way you can compare Christians in the region with the Palestinians who you here loosely present as Muslims. All Muslims behave like animals?

[everythingisone]

Originally Posted by Benni

Does the Pope complain about the fact, that Jerusalem is the capital of a Jewish state? No! The only, who make trouble about that fact are - again - the Muslims! If they would behave like humans, it would probably be no problem, if they'd come to their religios sites, just like Christians from all over the world pilgimage to all their churches on Easter, Christmas or Pentecost...Or whenever they think to go there.

Of course the pope complains deeply about the Jewishness of Jerusalem. It is a contradiction to his belief. But he has to be politically correct, even though he doe not want to be. At least this pope travelled to Israel during the Jewish period of governing Israel. Other popes ignored the jewish precence in Israel. But it bothers the pope, none the less. Jewish control of Israel goes against centuries of christian teaching, centuries of christian theology, centuries of islamic teaching. All the leaders of these groups struggle to find an answer for Israel's existence. christians, and catholics in particular, have come to grips with it, at least outwardly. But muslims struggle with it and fight it every day. That is the way with both these groups, each to their own kind.

[Kathying]

what do you say D.B. ? don't you need a vacation ?