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Old July 29th, 2012, 12:28 AM   #621
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saysenthil View Post
Makkale, oru chinna udavi....

Can someone share the alternative words for "tamil sangam"!

Is there any website where I could find alternative or similar words for a particular tamil word ?

Thank you in advance!
I haven't come across a site that gives alternative words for a particular Tamizh word, but try this site http://www.coree.in/dict/home.jsp , this gives multiple Tamizh equivalents based on an English word. Apparently this site is built and maintained by Madhan Karky.
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Old July 30th, 2012, 12:13 PM   #622
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As you travel from Kanyakumari to Chennai, you may hear like this in railway stations.

For Bananas / Plantains


வாழைப்பழம்

வாளப்பளம்

வாலைப்பலம்

வாயப்பயம்
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Old July 30th, 2012, 07:27 PM   #623
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kannan infratech View Post
As you travel from Kanyakumari to Chennai, you may hear like this in railway stations.

For Bananas / Plantains


வாழைப்பழம்

வாளப்பளம்

வாலைப்பலம்

வாயப்பயம்

வாயப்பயம் No chennaivasis offended?
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Old July 31st, 2012, 05:11 AM   #624
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வாழைப்பழம் = is mostly வாழப்பழம்
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Old July 31st, 2012, 01:27 PM   #625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arasu View Post
வாயப்பயம் No chennaivasis offended?
1. What is the significance of grantha letters in Tamil language? Where and when are they used/when and where are they not used? Why are they separate from the main alphabet?
2. Since there are 4-5 letters in Tamizh which are dual sounds i.e one letter represents two sounds, how are people taught when to pronounce which letter or is that something learnt in school?
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Old July 31st, 2012, 10:30 PM   #626
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Originally Posted by Cosmicbliss View Post
1. What is the significance of grantha letters in Tamil language? Where and when are they used/when and where are they not used? Why are they separate from the main alphabet?
2. Since there are 4-5 letters in Tamizh which are dual sounds i.e one letter represents two sounds, how are people taught when to pronounce which letter or is that something learnt in school?
Grantha script was used by Tamil speakers to write Sanskrit language. Tamil used to be written using Vattezhuthu script.

When 'manipravalam', a dialect that mixed Tamil and Sanskrit was in vogue until the early 20 the century, a combination of both Tamil and Grantha script were used to write manipravalam because some of the Sanskrit sounds couldn't be reproduced with Tamil script.
Note: Manipravalam mixed Tamil and Sanskrit like ruby and coral is mixed to make a necklace. (Mani in Tamil - ruby; Pravalam in Sanskrit - Coral).

When manipravalam went out of use, use of grantha letters for Tamil writing also went out of use. At the same time, use of devanagari script for Sanskrit became popular thereby making grantha script redundant.

A modified version of grantha is being used for Malayalam writing. It can be gathered that several scripts in SE Asia follow the modified grantha script introduced by the Pallava kingdom for Sanskrit writing.

So, one can conclude that Grantha was introduced in South India mainly to write Sanskrit independently as well as for mixing of Sanskrit and Tamil in manipravalam. The grantha letters remained separate from the main Tamil alphabets mainly because Tamil had its own grammar (Tolkappiam) from ancient times with a separate chapter on 'ezhuthu' (Script/Writing) where the letters and rules regarding writing were spelt out clearly. Hence, the new/later additions didn't become an integral part of Tamil and remained separate.

Regarding the dual sounding letters of Tamil e.g k & g, t & d, p & b, etc Tamil grammar spells out the use and pronunciation. However, in the modern day, it is mainly based on what comes naturally or based on the regional pronunciation since colloquial speech doesn't go by old time grammar rules.

http://www.tnarch.gov.in/epi/ins3.htm

Last edited by Arasu; August 1st, 2012 at 05:08 AM.
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Old August 1st, 2012, 10:41 AM   #627
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There was a suggestion to use suffix numbers to Tamil letters where ever needed so that the pronunciation is easier.

But this is strictly against the tradition & grammar.

For eg:

Garudan - க3ருட3ன்

Kadhavu - க1த4வு
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Old August 1st, 2012, 11:58 AM   #628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sshivakumar View Post
I haven't come across a site that gives alternative words for a particular Tamizh word, but try this site http://www.coree.in/dict/home.jsp , this gives multiple Tamizh equivalents based on an English word. Apparently this site is built and maintained by Madhan Karky.


Cool TFS!!

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Old September 2nd, 2012, 11:04 AM   #629
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arasu sir,
only due to selfless people like you tamil has suvived thro the ages and will continue to do so for ages to come,tfs and all power to you on behalf of all tamils.
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 10:15 PM   #630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kannan infratech View Post
There was a suggestion to use suffix numbers to Tamil letters where ever needed so that the pronunciation is easier.

But this is strictly against the tradition & grammar.

For eg:

Garudan - க3ருட3ன்

Kadhavu - க1த4வு
Arasu/ Kannan sir, please throw light on the following:

1. The Karaikudi railway station renaming agitation led by Kannadasan and Karunanidhi (Dalmiapuram)
2. Tamil culture that has evolved in the border districts of TN (Kanyakumari, Dharmapuri, Hosur, Vellore, Nagercoil) and the border districts of AP/KL/KA which have a large Tamizh population. How has Tamil culture evolved and changed in border areas? How has it borrowed from or been influenced by other state cultures? I do know that like TN, KA, AP and KL have also had strong programs to promote the use of the local language, so have Tamilians there assimilated and as a result is there a lot of cultural mixing?
3. How good a writer was/is Bharathidasan? I.e. strictly in terms of literary merit-setting aside his political affiliations-how good a writer do you rate him?

Thanks.
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Old September 5th, 2012, 10:09 AM   #631
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hey guys ,

I need suggestions for the best way to improve my Tamil. My mother tongue is Tamil, but i never learnt it as a core subject .( In school my second language was Hindi).So my Tamil is basically Madras Tamil .

I am reasonably proficient in Tamil i.e. i can read and write somewhat fluently ( with reading better than writing ). I notice that my vocabulary needs improving. Would reading a newspaper be the best bet to improve my vocab and sentence construction ? If yes then which newspaper would you recommend ( i am looking for the tamil equivalent of The Hindu). Also i've heard that the India Today -tamil edition is pretty good. What do you think ??
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Last edited by iaafosc; September 5th, 2012 at 10:29 AM.
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Old September 5th, 2012, 01:30 PM   #632
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iaafosc,

Try Dinamani newspaper, Ananda Vikatan, Kumudham, (popular) magazines.

Now online, you have lots of Tamil Font stories / materials.

Try Tamil Googling and you may get them.

P.S: We recommended Saroja Devi to our classmates from North India who wanted to learn Tamil. Fastest way to learn Tamil.
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Old September 5th, 2012, 02:20 PM   #633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kannan infratech View Post
iaafosc,

Try Dinamani newspaper, Ananda Vikatan, Kumudham, (popular) magazines.

Now online, you have lots of Tamil Font stories / materials.

Try Tamil Googling and you may get them.

P.S: We recommended Saroja Devi to our classmates from North India who wanted to learn Tamil. Fastest way to learn Tamil.
thank you mr.kannan....
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Old September 5th, 2012, 03:39 PM   #634
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You seem so innocent. You wouldn't thank Kannan if you knew 'Saroja Devi'. It is the older version of modern day 'Savitha Bhabi'.

Try reading some short stories, and novels. If you like the author 'Sujatha', read his stories.
After reading a few modern day novels, attempt Ponniyin Selvan. Your Tamil would have developed by leaps and bounds.
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Old September 5th, 2012, 04:08 PM   #635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmicbliss View Post
Arasu/ Kannan sir, please throw light on the following:

1. The Karaikudi railway station renaming agitation led by Kannadasan and Karunanidhi (Dalmiapuram)
2. Tamil culture that has evolved in the border districts of TN (Kanyakumari, Dharmapuri, Hosur, Vellore, Nagercoil) and the border districts of AP/KL/KA which have a large Tamizh population. How has Tamil culture evolved and changed in border areas? How has it borrowed from or been influenced by other state cultures? I do know that like TN, KA, AP and KL have also had strong programs to promote the use of the local language, so have Tamilians there assimilated and as a result is there a lot of cultural mixing?
3. How good a writer was/is Bharathidasan? I.e. strictly in terms of literary merit-setting aside his political affiliations-how good a writer do you rate him?

Thanks.
1. Karunanidhi is first and foremost an excellent script writer more than anything else. The Kallakkudi (not Karaikudi) agitation is the script he wrote for himself which made a hero out of him and launched his successful political career.

Kannadasan, the famous Tamil lyricist, and MK's friend, spent more time in jail 's - one and a half years as opposed to MK's 3 months- but didn't get any benefits. He was not a politician.

3. Bharathidasan was pretty good. He along with Bharathi (Subramania) are the two most famous Tamil poets of the previous century. Bharathidasan was influenced by Bharathi to such an extent that he changed his original name (Subburathinam) to Bharathidasan.

The only poem of Bharathidasan that I remember was from my Tamil teacher who used to give funny anecdotes in between lectures. It required lot of humour to make students interested in Tamil. He was so good in fathoming the mood of the class and introduce humour at the right time.

A young guy was singing one of Bharathidasan's song:

நீலவான் ஆடைக்குள் உடல் மறைத்து,
நிலாவென்று காட்டுகின்றாய் ஒளி முகத்தைக்
கோல முழுதும் காட்டிவிட்டால் காதற்
கொள்ளையிலே இவ்வுலகம் சாமோ? – வானச்
சோலையிலே பூத்ததனிப் பூவோ நீதான்!
சொக்கவெள்ளிப் பாற்குடமோ, அமுத ஊற்றோ!
காலைவந்த செம்பரிதி கடலில் மூழ்கிக்
கனல்மாறிக் குளிரடைந்த ஒளிப்பிழம்போ!

He only uttered the first stanza. i.e.


நீலவான் ஆடைக்குள் உடல் மறைத்து,
neelavaan aadaikkul udal maraithu,

blue sky in the dress body hidden

நிலாவென்று காட்டுகின்றாய் ஒளி முகத்தைக்
nilavenru kaattukingrai oli mugathai

as moon (you are) showing shining face

கோல முழுதும் காட்டிவிட்டால் காதற்
kola muzhuvadhum kaativittal kadhal

whole beautiful body (if you) show, love

கொள்ளையிலே இவ்வுலகம் சாமோ?
kollaiyile ivvulagam saamo?

in abundance, this world would die?


The poem is about the blue sky and the beautiful moon which is clothed in the beautiful blue sky. Bharathidasan sees the moon as the shining face of the nature and wonders if the world would die in excess of love if it gets to see the whole beauty of nature instead of only the face.

The young guy (in my teacher's humor interlude) didn't know that there was a young girl dressed in a blue dress standing on the balcony of the house next door. Their kith and kin misinterpreted his lines and intentions.

Last edited by Arasu; September 5th, 2012 at 04:14 PM.
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Old September 5th, 2012, 05:39 PM   #636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arasu View Post

You seem so innocent. You wouldn't thank Kannan if you knew 'Saroja Devi'. It is the older version of modern day 'Savitha Bhabi'.

Try reading some short stories, and novels. If you like the author 'Sujatha', read his stories.
After reading a few modern day novels, attempt Ponniyin Selvan. Your Tamil would have developed by leaps and bounds.
lol...seriously...???!!! i didn't know that....i was however referring to his previous suggestions wrt to newspapers and online data. As for Saroja Devi, i thought he was asking me to see Saroja Devi's ( the actress) movies ....now I get it..!!!!

I have heard a lot about Sujatha...and kalki too. My mom's favorite . No problem getting the books as she already has them.Thanks for the suggestion ...and also for the clarification regarding "Saroja Devi"
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Old September 5th, 2012, 11:49 PM   #637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arasu View Post
1. Karunanidhi is first and foremost an excellent script writer more than anything else. The Kallakkudi (not Karaikudi) agitation is the script he wrote for himself which made a hero out of him and launched his successful political career.

Kannadasan, the famous Tamil lyricist, and MK's friend, spent more time in jail 's - one and a half years as opposed to MK's 3 months- but didn't get any benefits. He was not a politician.

3. Bharathidasan was pretty good. He along with Bharathi (Subramania) are the two most famous Tamil poets of the previous century. Bharathidasan was influenced by Bharathi to such an extent that he changed his original name (Subburathinam) to Bharathidasan.

The only poem of Bharathidasan that I remember was from my Tamil teacher who used to give funny anecdotes in between lectures. It required lot of humour to make students interested in Tamil. He was so good in fathoming the mood of the class and introduce humour at the right time.

A young guy was singing one of Bharathidasan's song:

நீலவான் ஆடைக்குள் உடல் மறைத்து,
நிலாவென்று காட்டுகின்றாய் ஒளி முகத்தைக்
கோல முழுதும் காட்டிவிட்டால் காதற்
கொள்ளையிலே இவ்வுலகம் சாமோ? – வானச்
சோலையிலே பூத்ததனிப் பூவோ நீதான்!
சொக்கவெள்ளிப் பாற்குடமோ, அமுத ஊற்றோ!
காலைவந்த செம்பரிதி கடலில் மூழ்கிக்
கனல்மாறிக் குளிரடைந்த ஒளிப்பிழம்போ!

He only uttered the first stanza. i.e.


நீலவான் ஆடைக்குள் உடல் மறைத்து,
neelavaan aadaikkul udal maraithu,

blue sky in the dress body hidden

நிலாவென்று காட்டுகின்றாய் ஒளி முகத்தைக்
nilavenru kaattukingrai oli mugathai

as moon (you are) showing shining face

கோல முழுதும் காட்டிவிட்டால் காதற்
kola muzhuvadhum kaativittal kadhal

whole beautiful body (if you) show, love

கொள்ளையிலே இவ்வுலகம் சாமோ?
kollaiyile ivvulagam saamo?

in abundance, this world would die?


The poem is about the blue sky and the beautiful moon which is clothed in the beautiful blue sky. Bharathidasan sees the moon as the shining face of the nature and wonders if the world would die in excess of love if it gets to see the whole beauty of nature instead of only the face.

The young guy (in my teacher's humor interlude) didn't know that there was a young girl dressed in a blue dress standing on the balcony of the house next door. Their kith and kin misinterpreted his lines and intentions.
Adding a few additional points, Bharatidasan was mentored by Mahakavi Subramanya Bharati when they met in Pondicherry(Karaikal). Though Bharatidasan was a prolific writer, he was totally wrong in his anti brahminical nature and all the anti brahmin works that we was involved in. Bloody he learnt all the vedanta from Brahmin scholars only to turn up completely against them, supporting that Periyar. He was totally brainwashed and stirred up by Annadurai, periyar and Karunanidhi and they used him and his work for their personal campaign against Brahmins.

Having said that, his passion for Tamil language and the knowledge he possessed on it was incontrovertible.

This is my favorite song from Bharatidasan

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Old September 6th, 2012, 09:11 AM   #638
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@ cosmic bliss :

Karunanidhi is a very good orator and he prepares his speeches well. Appealing to the Masses with Edhugai, Monai & pun. (Though I do not like a few of his political ideas / misinformation campaigns, I am a fan of his Tamil)

The Railway station agitation at Kallakkudi was a farce and was scripted to elevate him to the next level. He commissioned poets to write glorious poems on that incident and released the LP record himself all over TN. (Kallakkudi Konda Karunanidhi Nee Vazhgave!)

The border districts of any state would have influence from across the borders. Please note that the states were demarcated much recently mainly on linguistic divide.

In TN, Nagercoil has a similar culture to Kerala, whereas we have the best Tamil authors and support to Tamil Literature comes from the district. Coimbatore has a huge population of Malayalees. Though their culture is Malayalee they follow all Tamil customs also. Real Melting Pot.

North Arcot does not have much influence from Mysore in comparison. The Badagas in Nilgiris are from Karnataka and they still stick to their culture. Similarly the Sathyamangalam region has pockets which follow Mysore traditions.

Bharati Dasan - Misguided Genius. Fantastic Tamil Poet. He was projected more in place of Bharati by DMK for obvious reasons. They refer only a few verses of Bharati in which he scolded some Brahmins and ignored all other works.

Bharati was more rounded in all aspects. Poetry, Vasana kavithai. His Prose was very less published. But a True Rebel Poet in all senses. But very patriotic which Bharatidasan lacked.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 02:27 PM   #639
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@Cosmic bliss
In terms of contributions to Tamil literature Bharthidasan is one of the great poet. As arasu said he is very good at smileys.

I don't know why brahimins, Periyar equations were brought here to belittle one of the great Poet who loved Tamil to great extent.
Atleast not this thread my Humble request.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 02:56 PM   #640
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Bharathidasan - Kudumba Vilakku

Husband answering his wife's question on what he did for the (Tamil) country.
வரும்படி வீதப்படி நான் தரும்படிக்கு
வாக்களித்தபடி கணக்கர் திங்கள் தோறும்
கரம்படி வீதித் தமிழர் கழகத்தார்கள்
கடைப்படியை மிதித்தவுடன் எண்ணி வைப்பார்!
பெரும்படியாய்ச் செய்ததுண்டு; படிக்கணக்கைப்
பேசிவிட்டாய்க் கண்டபடி

Wife's reply:

அப்படியா! அறியாதபடியால் சொன்னேன்
அந்தமிழர் படிப்படியாய் முன்னேற்றத்தை
எப்படியாயினும் பெற்று விட்டால் மக்கள்
இப்படியே கீழ்ப்படியில் இரார்களன்றோ?
மெய்ப்படி நம் அறிஞரின் சொற்படி நடந்தால்
மேற்படியார் செப்படி வித்தை பறக்கும்.
முற்படில் ஆகாததுண்டோ? எப்படிக்கும்
முதற்படியாய்த் தமிழ் படிக்க வேண்டும்


Bharathidasan seems like a grandmaster in the use of alliterative language. Anna & MK must have been schooled by him!
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