New Thames River Crossings

[amitforyou]

ya anything else can be thought of?????????

[SE9]

The Emirates Air Line (cable car) is closed today due to adverse weather conditions. I'm passing it on the DLR and as I type, it still has not reopened.

These 'flimsy' weather dependent river crossings (cable cars & ferries) are not what south-east and east London need as a long term solution to our lack of crossing capacity. As a viable trade or commuter route, no-one wants to be dependent on a mode of transport that can succumb so easily to our variable weather conditions.

Gallions Reach ferry proposal?

[SE9]

Blackwall Tunnel toll proposed to finance new crossing
BBC News
30th October

Drivers could be asked to pay a toll charge of £2 to use the Blackwall Tunnel in south-east London to fund a new crossing under The River Thames.

Transport for London (TfL) has proposed a new road tunnel at Silvertown costing £600m and a £150m vehicle ferry at Gallions Reach.

But there is no funding available in TfL's business plan. A toll would raise revenue and discourage congestion, the government body said.

The AA said it would be controversial.

'More attractive'

The proposed tunnel would connect the Greenwich Peninsula and Silvertown in the Royal Docks.

TfL said this and the ferry crossing would make the area more attractive for people living there, visiting and doing business by reducing delays.

It said it would also help realise the potential of the Royal Docks and the Greenwich Peninsula.

The Silvertown Tunnel and Blackwall Tunnel are located close to each other and share approach roads.

As such, TfL argued one could not be tolled without the other, as drivers would head for the free route in large numbers causing serious delays.

The suggested charge is £2 for cars, £2.50 for two-axle goods vehicles and £5 for Heavy Goods Vehicles.

The toll could vary depending on the direction of travel, the time of day, and the day of the week and would not come in until 2021, a spokesman said.

It is subject to a consultation which will end on 1 February.

'Always controversial'

But Paul Watters, from driving organisation the AA, said drivers would feel like "pound fodder".

He said: "Charging existing infrastructure is always controversial especially as since the '60s it's been a free crossing.

"Drivers who use the Blackwall Tunnel and not the Silvertown will feel like the pound fodder for the new crossing even though they have no reason to use it.

"Traffic doesn't have much choice and drivers may feel they are being corralled into something."

He said the journey cost could be £80 a month "on top of a £120 fuel bill".

Watchdog London TravelWatch, has told TfL it supports tolling the crossing.

Policy officer Vincent Stops said the organisation supported a plan to counter congestion in outer and east London, which is predicted to worsen as the population grows.

[ill tonkso]

Bridges are better than tunnels IMHO, friendlier and more inviting for pedestrians and cyclists. There is no chance of something small and elegent like the bridges in the West though, it would be something more akin to the concrete hulk of the Itchen Bridge in Southampton to cater for the river movements you get in the East.

Whatever does get built though, should have a DLR deck.

[DarJoLe]

Boris Johnson: No Toll for Blackwall Tunnel
Tuesday 30th October 2012

The Mayor of London has told LBC 97.3 that he will not introduce a toll at the Blackwall Tunnel.

Yesterday Transport for London admitted that it may start charging drivers in order to pay for Boris' promised new river crossing in east London.

In the consulatation document they admit that to fund the proposed Silvertown tunnel - connecting Silvertown and Greenwich - they would want to have a toll in place on the new crossing.

However, because the Blackwall tunnel is so close, not introducing a toll there too would cause "serious delays" as everyone would chose the free crossing - so therefore charges would have to be introduced on both to help manage demand.

The charges would likely be similar to the tolls charged on the Dartford crossing - currently £2 for cars, £2.50 for two-axle goods vehicles, and £5 for HGVs.

But Boris Johnson told LBC 97.3 he is not happy about the plans and that TfL will have to be creative in coming up with the money.

"These projects - big big infrastructure projects - don't grow on trees," he explained. "We've got to look at all the options of how to finance that and it is only sensible that in the consultation which is going on at the moment we should ask people about tolling. I certainly won't be putting in a toll in my Mayoral career... my Mayoral lifetime..."

[DarJoLe]

Does he ever have any idea of what is going on?

[ill tonkso]

Not sure what you are saying, he does know about TfL's plans, and intends to block them.

[DarJoLe]

He's the Chair of TfL! Surely the press release should have gone through him before being made public! What a farce.

[ill tonkso]

Then is this not the fault of someone else at TfL for running it by the boss?

This looks like the guys who actually run TfL put together an action plan to pay for the crossing, a plan that has not yet been approvd by Boris. This action plan would have been concieved at Windsor House, NOT City Hall.

All this is telling us is that Boris doesn't approve of the plans, and that those responsible need to figure out a second plan.

[DarJoLe]

So if a company sends out a press release to which a day later the boss of said company says isn't going to happen under his watch you don't think that smacks of bad PR and general disorganisation?

[ill tonkso]

Which is not necessarily the fault of Boris. You seem to have no understanding of how TfL works. The mayor doesn't run it... whether that be Ken, Boris, Benita, You or Myself.

[DarJoLe]

Boris is the Chair of TfL- if he is surprised by what TfL is proposing he needs to pay more attention in its meetings.

Either way sending out a press release only for a day later it to be disputed by the Mayor shows a complete lack of joined up thinking between TfL and City Hall and just sends confusion to the Press and makes you wonder what the hell is going on. That's how journalism works.

[SE9]

... So presumably a toll will be introduced when a safe Tory seat is found?

[Core Rising]

Greenwich will never be a Tory seat, let alone a safe one.

[SE9]

Originally Posted by Core Rising

Greenwich will never be a Tory seat, let alone a safe one.

A safe Tory seat somewhere in England, in which Boris will become an MP, relinquish his role as Mayor, pursue the Tory leadership and ultimately the Prime Ministership.

[SE9]

Local reaction is predictable:

[Core Rising]

£2 is unacceptable. People don't have a choice in using Blackwall tunnel, it's all there is.

Thinking about it, someone really missed a trick when they built the Thames barrier. We probably wouldn't have the same level of problem now.

[london lad]

Why are they so for another tunnel up the Greenwich Peninsula?

The roads are already chocker surely funneling more traffic down it is madness. Considering the increase in population in this part of London ( on both sides of the Thames) to even contemplate charging for access for the only proper river crossing between Tower Bridge and the QEII bridge is crazy.

With this and a stupid ferry they seem to be going for the cheapest and most convenient option.

The consultation seems little more than a sham. Its obvious Who seriously would put a new bridge that could run vehicles, cycles and pedestrians and alleviate pressure at Blackwell over a tunnel and new ferry. Tfl is only pushing for these two options. Is there an organised response from anyone to push for the bridge .I seem to recall some of the councils effected were even contemplating finding funding for the bridge before, is that still viable?

[SF-02]

A bridge at Thamesmead to Beckton should be priority number 1. It has been on the drawing board since the 60s as either a tunnel or bridge. Thamesmead has a road network of dual carriageways leading all the way through Erith to Dartford that is sparsely used and can accommodate more traffic. Toll it appropriately to dissuade a certain amount of traffic if needed.

Building a tunnel at Blackwall will just lead to more jams 5 years after it opens due to restricted A2 access. It's no good for cyclists, pedestrians, or public transport as only small single deckers would use it and be held up in approaching jams.

The Woolwich ferry replacement at Thamesmead instead of a bridge is the biggest joke if they want to charge for it, and almost certainly no good for buses. I used the Woolwich ferry today for the first time in ages. Even in early afternoon it was a 25 minute wait then 10 mins across. So, so slow.

Many more homes continue to be built throughout SE and E London, as well as out in Kent and Essex and these Boris proposals are inadequate.

London lad - having read the results of the first consultation Bexley borough (surprise surprise) were the only one who oppose a bridge. Greenwich, Newham, and Dagenham all support. Boris and Bexley are thick as thieves though.

[DarJoLe]

How on earth is a tunnel at Silvertown going to work? I presume it will connect to the A13 at Canning Town (rendering the redevelopment of the pedestrianised town centre there completely pointless - excellent joined up thinking by Boris once again there) and then underground where the Thames Wharf DLR station was originally to be built. I guess it will appear on the south Peninsula somewhere where the cable car is, funneling more traffic down the Peninsula (probably ripping out the bus lanes in the process).

Totally idiotic. The Beckton bridge already has its connections to main roads built! Utterly utterly retarded decision by a clueless leader once again.