Some Tamil Lessons for Beginners (in English) - Page 34

Arasu · September 24th, 2012, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiv2011

pl give tamil meaning

1.you all,all you
2.you only,only you
3.today only,todayitself
4.innaikku mattum neeye brush pannu
5.enthaentha animal wild animal sollu
6.enthaentha things red colourla irukkum sollu
7.english sentencela naduvula"such,off"varuthula athai eppadi purnchigkanum
8.i am still alive
9.still,till,such-tamila explain panni tamil&english sentence koodunga
10.enga eduthaiyo angaiye vai
11.niruthi nithanama kottukkula yezhuthu
12.naan brush pannittu varen wait pannu

Shiv,
I think you are already good in Tamil but trying to learn English.
I also guess that you may be quite young. Hence, you will get plenty of opportunities to learn English in future.

If my understanding is wrong, please PM me. I will answer your questions on Tamil to English translations.

Arasu · September 24th, 2012, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmicbliss

1. How have Tamils kept their culture alive in USA/UK/abroad? On the whole, do you feel second and third generation Tamils keep alive their ability to understand and speak Tamil? How does it compare to other second and third generation Indians from other parts of India.

It will be difficult to maintain the ability to speak the language well after a couple of generation. It will be the same as what happened to all the Irish, Italian, German immigrants. Tamils are not going to be any different. The main reason is probably the lack of critical mass needed to maintain the language and culture. The Srilankan Tamils may be more steadfast than Indian Tamils. I am not sure why.

I don't see much difference between Tamil speaking Indians and Indians speaking other languages in terms of maintaining their language and culture.

[I see a difference in the movies made in India, however. While Tamil movies have moved away from depicting city life or story of rich people's life style and talk about life and story in interior TN and also of people in all walks of life, I notice that many of the recent Hindi movies that I happened to watch in bits and pieces, were about people living in London, New York and various other cities abroad.]

This movie trends probably indicate a higher level of fascination in Hindi heartland for life abroad. OTOH, I think there would be more interest for Tamil movies made in Madurai, Coimbatore or Tirunelveli than in London, Paris or NY.

These observations are from my personal experience and hence not necessarily true/correct.

Quote:

2. When you say Kallaikudi railway station renaming agitation is a farce, what do you mean? I heard one Dalmia a rich businessman wished to rename the station after himself?
Thanks.

I didn't intend to say that the entire agitation was a farce; only the drama that MK enacted by laying on the rail track to give up his life. He knew fully well that the train would be stopped either by the agitating people or the authorities and will not be allowed to run over him. That part was a well managed show executed according to the script in which he came out as a hero. That was the stepping stone for his successful political life. You have to keep in mind that his main job at that time was that of a script writer for Tamil movies.

shiv2011 · September 29th, 2012, 11:02 AM

<html>
sorry sir,
i am really tamilian sir,i know tamil & I couldn't understand the complicate sentence in english.but i am speaking& writing simple sentence in english. i searched english-tamil spoken in goole.the google showed your web site. i studied your site.so i put my queries in your web site.i have doubt in these all sentence.please help me.my daughter is studying LKG.i hope your reply soon.if you explain these,i will speak good.
<html>

Arasu · September 29th, 2012, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by shiv2011
pl give tamil meaning

1.you all,all you
you all - e.g: I thank you all for the help.
all you - is wrong. You have to say "all of you".
I want to thank all of you for the support.

2.you only,only you
There is a difference between those two.
e.g: you only said that.
The above sentence informs that the listener (the person spoken to) is the one who said some thing (being refered to).

In Tamil: nee dhaan.

only you: Only you can do it.

This sentence means no one else can do it except the person being spoken to.
IN Tamil: Nee mattum dhaan.

Please re-read and observe this important difference.

3.today only,today itself
today only: inru dhaan (sirf aaj)
today itself: inre (aaj hi)

4.innaikku mattum neeye brush pannu
You brush yourself just for today.

5.enthaentha animal wild animal sollu
Identify the wild animals.

6.enthaentha things red colourla irukkum sollu
Identify the things that are red in colour.

7.english sentencela naduvula"such,off"varuthula athai eppadi purnchigkanum

such - is used to give an example for a place/thing (such as) or even action (such that).

off - is such a crazy word in English when not used as the opposite of 'on'.
It follows verbs to form a phrase, such as,
kick off, blast off

8.i am still alive
naan innum uyirodu irukkiren.

9.still,till,such-tamila explain panni tamil&english sentence koodunga

still : innum (Tamil), ab tak (Hindi)
till: varai (Tamil), tab tak (Hindi)
such - andha madhiri (Tamil), aisa (Hindi)

10.enga eduthaiyo angaiye vai
Keep it in the same place where you took it from.

11.niruthi nithanama kottukkula yezhuthu
Write slowly and carefully within the lines.

12.naan brush pannittu varen wait pannu
I will come back after brushing. Please wait.

shiv2011 · October 3rd, 2012, 12:48 PM

<html>
Thank you so much sir for your kindly helping.
please give the difference.

1.i am telling you one story.
2.let me tell you one small story.
3.let-permit,allow-ithei entha situationla pesanum.
4.bring-eduthutu va,eduthutu po-eppadi sollanum
5.take-azaichutu po,azaichutu va-eppadi sollanum
sir,
how do you feel when you read my english.but your english and tamil sentence are very rich.i want to speak,write like you.
<html>

Cosmicbliss · October 3rd, 2012, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arasu

It will be difficult to maintain the ability to speak the language well after a couple of generation. It will be the same as what happened to all the Irish, Italian, German immigrants. Tamils are not going to be any different. The main reason is probably the lack of critical mass needed to maintain the language and culture. The Srilankan Tamils may be more steadfast than Indian Tamils. I am not sure why.

I don't see much difference between Tamil speaking Indians and Indians speaking other languages in terms of maintaining their language and culture.

[I see a difference in the movies made in India, however. While Tamil movies have moved away from depicting city life or story of rich people's life style and talk about life and story in interior TN and also of people in all walks of life, I notice that many of the recent Hindi movies that I happened to watch in bits and pieces, were about people living in London, New York and various other cities abroad.]

This movie trends probably indicate a higher level of fascination in Hindi heartland for life abroad. OTOH, I think there would be more interest for Tamil movies made in Madurai, Coimbatore or Tirunelveli than in London, Paris or NY.

These observations are from my personal experience and hence not necessarily true/correct.

I didn't intend to say that the entire agitation was a farce; only the drama that MK enacted by laying on the rail track to give up his life. He knew fully well that the train would be stopped either by the agitating people or the authorities and will not be allowed to run over him. That part was a well managed show executed according to the script in which he came out as a hero. That was the stepping stone for his successful political life. You have to keep in mind that his main job at that time was that of a script writer for Tamil movies.

Arasu, in Thailand there was a process of standardisation i.e. different parts of Thailand were encouraged/forced to speak Thai the way people do in central Thailand i.e. Bangkok Thai which was considered the acme or best way to speak Thai. In TN, given how large the state is, there must have been large variations in the way people speak Tamil in TN. Would be it correct to say that the government tried to standardise the way Tamil is spoken in the post state formation period and if so, which sort of Tamil was encouraged as the standard? Have regional variations in the way people Tamizh speak gone down owing to the influence of mass media like Tamil movies, newspapers and TV? How do you think the spread of Tamil movies/TV (in both these sectors, Tamil has the biggest film/TV industry after Hindi in terms of revenue according to an article I read somewhere) affected spoken Tamil.

Has the government, like Thailand, tried to standardize spoken Tamil within TN? and if so, has any region's Tamil been promoted over others?

Info on Thailand is from my good friend from that country.

Also, I have been reading a very good book by Narendra Subramaniam called Ëthnicity and Populist Mobilisation". He is a professor from Montreal Canada. One point he makes is the pre-DMK governments of Kamaraj/Rajaji actually did more in concrete terms to promote Tamil than the DMK/ADMK governments, which he feels aimed more at symbolic and emotional gestures (encouraging people to sign in Tamil etc) rather than actually trying to do concrete steps to promote Tamil in government administration, science and education. Do you agree with this?

kongutamizhan · October 5th, 2012, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmicbliss

Arasu, in Thailand there was a process of standardisation i.e. different parts of Thailand were encouraged/forced to speak Thai the way people do in central Thailand i.e. Bangkok Thai which was considered the acme or best way to speak Thai. In TN, given how large the state is, there must have been large variations in the way people speak Tamil in TN. Would be it correct to say that the government tried to standardise the way Tamil is spoken in the post state formation period and if so, which sort of Tamil was encouraged as the standard? Have regional variations in the way people Tamizh speak gone down owing to the influence of mass media like Tamil movies, newspapers and TV? How do you think the spread of Tamil movies/TV (in both these sectors, Tamil has the biggest film/TV industry after Hindi in terms of revenue according to an article I read somewhere) affected spoken Tamil.

Has the government, like Thailand, tried to standardize spoken Tamil within TN? and if so, has any region's Tamil been promoted over others?

Info on Thailand is from my good friend from that country.

I dare them to do it

On a serious note thankfully no. There was no attempt to standardize the spoken language. But we did add new words as it came up (like computer, internet etc.,)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmicbliss

Also, I have been reading a very good book by Narendra Subramaniam called Ëthnicity and Populist Mobilisation". He is a professor from Montreal Canada. One point he makes is the pre-DMK governments of Kamaraj/Rajaji actually did more in concrete terms to promote Tamil than the DMK/ADMK governments, which he feels aimed more at symbolic and emotional gestures (encouraging people to sign in Tamil etc) rather than actually trying to do concrete steps to promote Tamil in government administration, science and education. Do you agree with this?

I agree. Not sure if Arasu will

Cosmicbliss · November 3rd, 2012, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kongutamizhan

I dare them to do it

On a serious note thankfully no. There was no attempt to standardize the spoken language. But we did add new words as it came up (like computer, internet etc.,)

I agree. Not sure if Arasu will

What is north, south, east, west, central in Tamil?

How to say 'north Indian' or 'south indian in Tamil?

Also, what sort of Tamil do movies use? How many books/movies have used the brahmin dialect of Tamil in their presentation?

How have Tamil movies/books portrayed various communities within TN? In terms of positive/negative sterotypes?

Arasu · November 4th, 2012, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiv2011

Thank you so much sir for your kindly helping.
please give the difference.

1.i am telling you one story.
2.let me tell you one small story.

The difference between the two sentences is very clear. The first one is when you are already in the middle of narrating a story, you remind them that you are telling a story.

The second sentence is used when you want to tell a story to your audience.

[QUOTE]

3.let-permit,allow-ithei entha situationla pesanum.

You have used 'let' correctly in the sentence above.
'Allow' can be used interchangeably in the above sentence.

4.bring-eduthutu va,eduthutu po-eppadi sollanum
5.take-azaichutu po,azaichutu va-eppadi sollanum

You have used 'bring' and 'take' correctly above.

bring - eduthutu va, azaichutu va
take - eduthutu po,azaichutu po

Quote:

how do you feel when you read my english.but your english and tamil sentence are very rich.i want to speak,write like you.

Don't give too much importance to what others think. We sacrifice our self-respect and happiness thinking about what others think of us. These others in the internet world, we don't even see, and in the real world, we may not see again. Still hanker for these 'other's appreciation. Strange is indeed our human psyche.

You have passion to learn a new language; go ahead and take efforts to learn it well. You will feel happy about yourself even though the road to learning a new language may be bumpy.

I appreciate your good words about my language skills in Tamil and English.

I probably picked up Tamil language skill from my father who is good in Tamil and can recite from Kamba Ramayanam, Silappadhikaram, Nannool, Tholkappiam, Thirukural etc at will. Tamil language medium schooling helped.
However, I was so much behind in English language skills that I it took considerable time to learn to speak it.

Arasu · November 4th, 2012, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmicbliss

What is north, south, east, west, central in Tamil?

North - vadakku
South - therkku

East - kizhakku
West = merkku

The word 'keezh' means low in Tamil. The eastern side of TN is at a lower level. Hence kizhakku means 'keezh' thisai (direction).

Similarly, 'mel' means high. The western side of TN has high lands (western ghat). Hence 'merku' was used to refer to the direction of the highlands.

I think 'vadakku' and 'therkku' may also have similar reasoning but I am not aware of it.

The words 'vaadai' (northern winds) and 'thendral' (sotherly breeze) are derived from vadakku and therkku directions that these winds flow from.

Quote:

How to say 'north Indian' or 'south indian in Tamil?

North Indian - vada indhiyar. (vada is the adjective prefix form of vadakku)
South Indian - then indhiyar. (then is the adjective prefix form of therkku)

Quote:

Also, what sort of Tamil do movies use? How many books/movies have used the brahmin dialect of Tamil in their presentation?

How have Tamil movies/books portrayed various communities within TN? In terms of positive/negative sterotypes?

Until the late 50s, Tamil language used in Tamil movies was of a high variety. It is text book standard prose Tamil. My wife who is poor in standard Tamil language comprehension (she grew up in the north) refers to this language as King's language.

As most of the stories happened to revolve around king's stories, it suited well.

The language employed in the previous era, was standard Tamil with a large admixture of Sanskrit words.

From the sixties, the language adopted was a 'standard' spoken Tamil. I am not sure if this 'standard' language was indeed standard then, though it most definitely is now.

Only a handful movies, use the brahmin dialect to portray conservative brahmin family life, as far as I know. In my opinion, there are not many stereotypes - positive or negative - portrayed in Tamil movies.

On the other hand, it pains to see a south Indian ( mostly a Tamil brahmin) speak a peculiar accented Hindi in Hindi movies. A Tamil brahmin (not trying to be casteist here) who can learn and speak any Indian language with ease and mastery (due to his knowledge of difficult and rich languages such as Tamil and Sanskrit?) is being caricatured unnecessarily. Not that it matters to either the South Indians or the Hindi movie audience.

Arasu · November 4th, 2012, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kongutamizhan

I dare them to do it

On a serious note thankfully no. There was no attempt to standardize the spoken language. But we did add new words as it came up (like computer, internet etc.,)

I agree. Not sure if Arasu will

The first extant Tamil book 'Tholkappiam' is a grammar book. Another grammar book 'Nannool' was written around 13th century. These are attempts at codifying the language in an attempt to standardize the usage of the language.

One can't say there was no attempt to standardize. It would come as a surprise that we still use the grammar of these books in our usage of the language.

ChennaiIndian · November 5th, 2012, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmicbliss

...

Also, I have been reading a very good book by Narendra Subramaniam called Ëthnicity and Populist Mobilisation". He is a professor from Montreal Canada. One point he makes is the pre-DMK governments of Kamaraj/Rajaji actually did more in concrete terms to promote Tamil than the DMK/ADMK governments, which he feels aimed more at symbolic and emotional gestures (encouraging people to sign in Tamil etc) rather than actually trying to do concrete steps to promote Tamil in government administration, science and education. Do you agree with this?

We have reached a point in civilization where there is no need to preserve a language by enriching the grammar part of it or running 'sangams' like the kings did centuries ago. Making more people to speak your language is an easy way to preserve it.

Cosmicbliss · November 5th, 2012, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arasu

North - vadakku
South - therkku

East - kizhakku
West = merkku

The word 'keezh' means low in Tamil. The eastern side of TN is at a lower level. Hence kizhakku means 'keezh' thisai (direction).

Similarly, 'mel' means high. The western side of TN has high lands (western ghat). Hence 'merku' was used to refer to the direction of the highlands.

I think 'vadakku' and 'therkku' may also have similar reasoning but I am not aware of it.

The words 'vaadai' (northern winds) and 'thendral' (sotherly breeze) are derived from vadakku and therkku directions that these winds flow from.

North Indian - vada indhiyar. (vada is the adjective prefix form of vadakku)
South Indian - then indhiyar. (then is the adjective prefix form of therkku)

Until the late 50s, Tamil language used in Tamil movies was of a high variety. It is text book standard prose Tamil. My wife who is poor in standard Tamil language comprehension (she grew up in the north) refers to this language as King's language.

As most of the stories happened to revolve around king's stories, it suited well.

The language employed in the previous era, was standard Tamil with a large admixture of Sanskrit words.

From the sixties, the language adopted was a 'standard' spoken Tamil. I am not sure if this 'standard' language was indeed standard then, though it most definitely is now.

Only a handful movies, use the brahmin dialect to portray conservative brahmin family life, as far as I know. In my opinion, there are not many stereotypes - positive or negative - portrayed in Tamil movies.

On the other hand, it pains to see a south Indian ( mostly a Tamil brahmin) speak a peculiar accented Hindi in Hindi movies. A Tamil brahmin (not trying to be casteist here) who can learn and speak any Indian language with ease and mastery (due to his knowledge of difficult and rich languages such as Tamil and Sanskrit?) is being caricatured unnecessarily. Not that it matters to either the South Indians or the Hindi movie audience.

How do you say north indians in spoken tamizh?

***kannan infratech*** · November 6th, 2012, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmicbliss

How do you say north indians in spoken tamizh?

Vada Nattuk Karanga / Vadakathiyan (Colloquial)

Cosmicbliss · December 19th, 2012, 07:32 PM

How does one say in normal spoken Tamil the following:

I am grateful to all my friends for the help they have given me.

chennaidesi · December 19th, 2012, 08:43 PM

Nandri - means thank you

Arasu · December 20th, 2012, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmicbliss

How does one say in normal spoken Tamil the following:

I am grateful to all my friends for the help they have given me.

enakku udhavi seydha ella nanbarukkum migavum nandri.

swlarsen · December 21st, 2012, 12:55 AM

Kannan, Arasu

Nandri

Susanne

swlarsen · December 21st, 2012, 12:58 AM

Hello to all of you on this thread.

I would very much like to learn Tamil, but I know nothing about the language and I am 34 pages behind on this thread.

How would you suggest that I start?

Susanne

Arasu · December 21st, 2012, 04:32 AM

I would suggest that you glance through this thread from the beginning with a view to learning the history and some background of Tamil language along with some fundamentals. Then give another reading to understand difficult or specific aspects of the language.

Feel free to post any question that you may have when you peruse the pages.

September 29th, 2012, 11:02 AM	#663
shiv2011 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 6 Likes (Received): 0	<html> sorry sir, i am really tamilian sir,i know tamil & I couldn't understand the complicate sentence in english.but i am speaking& writing simple sentence in english. i searched english-tamil spoken in goole.the google showed your web site. i studied your site.so i put my queries in your web site.i have doubt in these all sentence.please help me.my daughter is studying LKG.i hope your reply soon.if you explain these,i will speak good. <html> Last edited by shiv2011; September 29th, 2012 at 11:08 AM. Reason: give more infomation

December 21st, 2012, 12:58 AM	#679
swlarsen Registered User Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 2 Likes (Received): 0	Hello to all of you on this thread. I would very much like to learn Tamil, but I know nothing about the language and I am 34 pages behind on this thread. How would you suggest that I start? Susanne Last edited by swlarsen; December 21st, 2012 at 12:59 AM. Reason: wrong word

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes	Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode	Rate This Thread:

September 29th, 2012, 10:04 PM	#664
Arasu The King Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Chennai Posts: 1,758 Likes (Received): 92	Originally Posted by shiv2011 pl give tamil meaning 1.you all,all you you all - e.g: I thank you all for the help. all you - is wrong. You have to say "all of you". I want to thank all of you for the support. 2.you only,only you There is a difference between those two. e.g: you only said that. The above sentence informs that the listener (the person spoken to) is the one who said some thing (being refered to). In Tamil: nee dhaan. only you: Only you can do it. This sentence means no one else can do it except the person being spoken to. IN Tamil: Nee mattum dhaan. Please re-read and observe this important difference. 3.today only,today itself today only: inru dhaan (sirf aaj) today itself: inre (aaj hi) 4.innaikku mattum neeye brush pannu You brush yourself just for today. 5.enthaentha animal wild animal sollu Identify the wild animals. 6.enthaentha things red colourla irukkum sollu Identify the things that are red in colour. 7.english sentencela naduvula"such,off"varuthula athai eppadi purnchigkanum such - is used to give an example for a place/thing (such as) or even action (such that). off - is such a crazy word in English when not used as the opposite of 'on'. It follows verbs to form a phrase, such as, kick off, blast off 8.i am still alive naan innum uyirodu irukkiren. 9.still,till,such-tamila explain panni tamil&english sentence koodunga still : innum (Tamil), ab tak (Hindi) till: varai (Tamil), tab tak (Hindi) such - andha madhiri (Tamil), aisa (Hindi) 10.enga eduthaiyo angaiye vai Keep it in the same place where you took it from. 11.niruthi nithanama kottukkula yezhuthu Write slowly and carefully within the lines. 12.naan brush pannittu varen wait pannu I will come back after brushing. Please wait.

October 3rd, 2012, 12:48 PM	#665
shiv2011 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 6 Likes (Received): 0	<html> Thank you so much sir for your kindly helping. please give the difference. 1.i am telling you one story. 2.let me tell you one small story. 3.let-permit,allow-ithei entha situationla pesanum. 4.bring-eduthutu va,eduthutu po-eppadi sollanum 5.take-azaichutu po,azaichutu va-eppadi sollanum sir, how do you feel when you read my english.but your english and tamil sentence are very rich.i want to speak,write like you. <html>

December 19th, 2012, 07:32 PM	#675
Cosmicbliss Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 4,299 Likes (Received): 50	How does one say in normal spoken Tamil the following: I am grateful to all my friends for the help they have given me.

December 19th, 2012, 08:43 PM	#676
chennaidesi Registered User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Philadelphia/Chennai Posts: 2,646 Likes (Received): 75	Nandri - means thank you

December 21st, 2012, 12:55 AM	#678
swlarsen Registered User Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 2 Likes (Received): 0	Kannan, Arasu Nandri Susanne

December 21st, 2012, 04:32 AM	#680
Arasu The King Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Chennai Posts: 1,758 Likes (Received): 92	I would suggest that you glance through this thread from the beginning with a view to learning the history and some background of Tamil language along with some fundamentals. Then give another reading to understand difficult or specific aspects of the language. Feel free to post any question that you may have when you peruse the pages.