Travel Questions: San Francisco Bay Area

[AJphx]

Originally Posted by Spaceman3

For beer-centric places check post 255 of this thread. Animo listed all the good ones, but one I would add is Schroeder’s (Financial District), which is a beer hall with a bunch of German beers and glassware.

You may want to check out the Anchor Brewery also. Since you’re not coming for awhile, I’m sure you can reserve a spot for a tour. Highly recommended!

Yeah I was definetly thinking of Anchor, gotta have Steam beer, the local style, when in San Francisco.
And Schroders sounds good, thanks!

Thanks for the suggestion Ichiban! I wouldn't mind checking out some of the clubs, but can't really be spending too much money so Slide sounds like a good place.

[AJphx]

Originally Posted by Cal_Escapee

First of all, understand that BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit) is just that--an area-wide heavy rail service that mostly gets commuters and others to and from SF and the suburbs.

Within San Francisco, you would use MUNI (San Francisco Municipal Railway). Under Market St. in downtown SF there are actually 2 levels of subway--the upper one is MUNI, the lower one is BART. But MUNI runs the city busses, cable cars, light rail and so on.

oh I see. Thank you for telling me that. I knew that BART was just commuter and just went in a straight line through the center of the city... but I guess I thought SF's only local mass transit was cable cars and buses. I didn't realize there was this whole local rail system. Is the MUNI rail the best way to get around SF(to the major neighborhoods and attractions?)

[Cal_Escapee]

Originally Posted by AJphx

oh I see. Thank you for telling me that. I knew that BART was just commuter and just went in a straight line through the center of the city... but I guess I thought SF's only local mass transit was cable cars and buses. I didn't realize there was this whole local rail system. Is the MUNI rail the best way to get around SF(to the major neighborhoods and attractions?)

Depends on where you are going. That's why if you plan to depend on public transit you should get a map of the Muni system--either buy one when you get here (Walgreen's sells them I think) or download it from the links above.

This is the rail system only (it's street level as a "modern streetcar" in most places; some places it runs in the median so it doesn't have to compete with cars and under Market St is a subway):



You may notice (if you know the city) a big gap in the Muni rail network: The Richmond District. Everybody agrees there needs to be a Geary St. rail line but there isn't so no rail to that whole part of town (they have a plan for BRT). A Geary Line would parallel the (blue) N-Judah line and (purple) L-Taraval line on the other (north) side of Golden Gate Park. For now there's the amazing(ly crowded) 38 Geary bus or the parallel 5-Fulton, 31-Balboa and 1-California bus routes.

The bus network is much more extensive--Muni's goal is that you are never more than 2 blocks from a bus stop. But the two--rail and busses--work together.

Then there's the cable cars:



Like I said, these are stupid expensive unless you have a pass--either a monthly unlimited pass or one of the tourist passports I mentioned.

[Animo]

Originally Posted by Cal_Escapee

Depends on where you are going. That's why if you plan to depend on public transit you should get a map of the Muni system--either buy one when you get here (Walgreen's sells them I think) or download it from the links above.

He could also download some free apps and be mobile.

[behave]

looking for low crime.. liberal.. beautiful scenery.. laid back.. good transport.. good air quality.. safe from natural disasters
m from u.k.. and moving to cali

[JoshuaSantos]

San Jose has the lowest crime by far of any major city in California, is also statistically one of the most ethnically diverse cities in the world (and liberal), has a small-town friendliness despite its size, phenomenal weather, and has the highest private sector salaries in the US if not the world. Air quality is far better than LA, not as good as SF. Earthquakes will be a risk anywhere in California, but at least you won't have to worry about any other natural disasters here.

[vrhunski]

Originally Posted by behave

looking for low crime.. liberal.. beautiful scenery.. laid back.. good transport.. good air quality.. safe from natural disasters
m from u.k.. and moving to cali

Palo Alto, CA. If You are from UK You will like that place.
Little too expensive tough

[Cal_Escapee]

Originally Posted by behave

looking for low crime.. liberal.. beautiful scenery.. laid back.. good transport.. good air quality.. safe from natural disasters
m from u.k.. and moving to cali

That's a tall mix for the Bay Area, especially the "safe from natural disasters" part. Most of coastal California is earthquake country.

For relative safety from disasters and all but the "good transport" I'd recommend the North Bay--Novato in Marin County, Santa Rosa or just about anywhere in Sonoma County. The transport here is improving with construction of the SMART rail system (there's a thread for that) but outside San Francisco I'd think you'll need personal transportation (car, motorcycle, at the very least a bike) anywhere in the Bay Area.

The North Bay is the least urban part of the Bay Area--large parts are set aside as parkland and protected from development--which means IMHO it has the best scenery (certainly the best natural scenery). In the coastal mountains (a short drive from the rest) it is redwood country and the ocean isn't far with scenery like the famous "Big Sur" coast. And, of coarse, Sonoma is a wine region.

[hubzilla]

You've been so helpful on other trips, I have to ask resident locals and experts for their opinions. Let me first preface it by saying I'm unabashedly a tourist: I'll have a camera around my neck escorting a 7 and 3-year old. I'm not fooling anyone, so I'll eat my crab at Fisherman's Wharf over a more "authentic" place off the beaten path.

How does October rank in the tourist season? We'll be in SF on Sat-Sun-Mon, which includes Columbus Day. Big lines and crowds for places like the Cable Cars and Exploratorium? Parking trouble at Golden Gate Bridge and Golden Gate Park?

We're coming from Hawaii, so anywhere's colder. We harbor no illusions that SF can get chilly, would jeans and sweaters be enough in October, or should we go warmer?

For Cable Cars, we heard it was better to board a stop or two after Powell & Market to avoid a long wait. Is this feasible with two small kids (7 & 3)? Does the cable car stop, or do we get on running? Less likely to find a seat? We're planning on a Saturday.

At the Ferry Building Farmers Market, can we get Chowder in a Sourdough bread bowl?

I did read I could purchase 1-day Muni cards on the cable cars themselves. Cash only, or debit/credits cards okay? We'll probably start from the California Line after the Ferry Bldg Saturday market

Parking meters: Are they usually the card type, or quarters? I read that you have to pre-pay for a $20 card to slide in the parking meters. I don't plan on driving all that much. What happens if I don't use it all?

We're also going afield, including Sonoma, Tahoe, and Reno.

We have decided on Sonoma over Napa, heading to the Benziger Winery. They have a playground on premises and a child rate for their tractor tour. From that, I'll make the bold assertion they don't mind kids. The first thing they asked "Do we get to taste the grapes?". Good question, Anya?

[Cal_Escapee]

Originally Posted by hubzilla

How does October rank in the tourist season? We'll be in SF on Sat-Sun-Mon, which includes Columbus Day. Big lines and crowds for places like the Cable Cars and Exploratorium? Parking trouble at Golden Gate Bridge and Golden Gate Park?[/

We're coming from Hawaii, so anywhere's colder. We harbor no illusions that SF can get chilly, would jeans and sweaters be enough in October, or should we go warmer?

For tourists "in the know", early October (and late September) are arguably THE BEST time to visit San Francisco. July and August can be foggy and therefore cold. By mid September (now) there usually begin to appear nearly fog-free days (today is one). These persist until the winter rains--Pacific storm fronts--begin which can happen around Halloween. There can be 90 degree days in September, 80s in October but we haven't had any so far. Today's predicted high (in spite of the sun) is in the 60s. Bring a jacket, especially if you plan to be out in the evening (it gets chilly--you'll think frigid--after sunset).

Surprisingly, the crowds aren't bad. August is the month for European tourists, with some in June and more in July. By October, they are gone and the great weather seems a secret. That means the crowds and lines you imagine don't really exist. There are just about always mid-day lines in a few places like the CA Academy of Science so try to go early if you go. But otherwise I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

For Cable Cars, we heard it was better to board a stop or two after Powell & Market to avoid a long wait. Is this feasible with two small kids (7 & 3)? Does the cable car stop, or do we get on running? Less likely to find a seat? We're planning on a Saturday.

If you just want to ride a cable car, skip the Powell St line entirely and opt for the California St line. It begins at California and Market near the Ferry Building on the Bay and goes over Nob Hill, past Chinatown, and terminates at California and Van Ness. Tourists don't seem to know about it. Hardly any lines, even in mid-summer. You can transfer to the Powell Line near the top of Nob Hill if you want.

The cars do stop at intersections--in fact, they frequently stop in the middle of the intersection, block both streets. There are "Cable Car Stop" signs at the curb where this happens but it's most intersections. On the Powell St. Line you probably won't find a seat this way--adults can hang on the running boards, somebody might get up and give the kids a seat (or maybe not).

At the Ferry Building Farmers Market, can we get Chowder in a Sourdough bread bowl?

The chowder in a bread bowl thing is a specialty of Boudin Bakery so what you want is a Boudin Cafe. There is not one in the Ferry building but there is one basically across the street in the Embarcadero Center mall right on Justin Herman Plaza (the open plaza with the ugly fountain that looks like the remains of a dismantled freeway).

I did read I could purchase 1-day Muni cards on the cable cars themselves. Cash only, or debit/credits cards okay? We'll probably start from the California Line after the Ferry Bldg Saturday market.

They take credit cards if you buy at the kiosk or elsewhere but probably not on the vehicle. You'll find more about the tourist passports (which include more than just cable cars and other transit) here: http://www.sfmta.com/cms/mfares/passports.htm . If you are going to be using transit, you should have a map of the system such as those here: http://www.sfmta.com/cms/mmaps/indxmaps.htm

Parking meters: Are they usually the card type, or quarters? I read that you have to pre-pay for a $20 card to slide in the parking meters. I don't plan on driving all that much. What happens if I don't use it all?

Can't help you much. There are a variety of meters because the city has been installing new ones that take credit cards. The older ones just take coins. Never tried the prepay cards but info here: http://www.sfmta.com/cms/pmeter/parkingcard.htm

We're also going afield, including Sonoma, Tahoe, and Reno.

We have decided on Sonoma over Napa, heading to the Benziger Winery. They have a playground on premises and a child rate for their tractor tour. From that, I'll make the bold assertion they don't mind kids. The first thing they asked "Do we get to taste the grapes?". Good question, Anya?

Most of the wineries have wine tastings but grape tastings? Can't say. Here's about their wine tastings: http://www.benziger.com/sonoma-wine-tasting . I bet they'd let the kids have a grape but I really don't know.

[Leeds No.1]

Visiting SF early next month. Any things of note to see other than the usual tourist sights?

Also, any idea on how much it is to rent sat navs, and whether it's necessary or not?

[Cal_Escapee]

Originally Posted by Leeds No.1

Visiting SF early next month. Any things of note to see other than the usual tourist sights?

You're going to have to give a few hints as to what you might be interested in and what you consider "the usual tourist sights".

If it were me, for example, I might be interested in going to the symphony or opera, and I don't think those are "usual tourist" things, but I realize that's just me. SF has a plethora of medium-sized museums rather than one big one and, again, one or more might interest you but you also may consider them "usual tourist" places. If you like to eat, there are a variety of slightly out of the way places for ethnic food (The Mission for Latin American food, Clement St for Asian, Larkin St. for Vietnamese etc). Farther afield, there are definitely things to see like Muir Woods (redwood forest), Highway 1 (coast road with jaw-dropping scenery similar to Big Sur), wine country, Russian River (more redwoods, gorgeous stream flowing through coastal mountains, summer resort area)

Anyway, drop some hints.

Also, any idea on how much it is to rent sat navs, and whether it's necessary or not?

I grew up before they existed so for me it's never necessary. If you are hooked on using one, it might comfort you IF YOU ARE DRIVING. Actually, a car is far more trouble than it's worth in the city and, without a car, you shouldn't need a GPS device. But if you do plan to drive up the coast or to the wine country, it would help. With a car, they rent for around $5 or $10 a day I think.

In the city, you might want a 1, 3 or 7-day unlimited use transit pass: http://www.sfmta.com/cms/mfares/passports.htm

[Leeds No.1]

Well we'll do things like the Golden Gate Bridge, Cable Cars, Alcatraz... but often there's equally interesting (and cheap!) things to do that don't get much space in the tourist brochures?

We're driving across the south west of the US, but will probably park at the hotel in SF and use public transport for the time we're there. A trip across the Golden Gate Bridge to Muir Woods looks good though..

[Cal_Escapee]

Well, since you have a car, consider driving up to Twin Peaks (where the big TV tower is--right in the geographic center of town--which is oddly hard to reach on transit though most tour busses go there) for this view:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_Peaks_(San_Francisco)

If you'll be riding transit, you might want to consider the Muni (SF Municipal Railway) Passport which not only covers the cable cars and other transit for up to 7 days, but also admission to most of the city museums. If "we" includes kids, I highly recommend the Exploratorium and the California Academy of Sciences (essentially a nature museum/aquarium--with indoor "rainforest"--in a fantastic Renzo Piano-designed building:


http://www.greenroofs.com/projects/pview.php?id=509

Adults might be more interested in the SF Museum of Modern Art on 3rd St across from Yerba Buena Gardens (my favorite city "park" which happens to be on top of the convention center).

Like I said above, there are several streets adults might enjoy strolling down for some of the flavo of the city. There's Columbus Ave. through Little Italy. The main street of the traditional Chinatown is Grant Ave although locals actually do more shopping a block away on Stockton St. (Grant is mostly tourist schlock, Stockton is more stuff for recently arrived Asian immigrants), but there's the newer Asian shopping street called Clement St in the Richmond District (say between 5th Ave. and 12th Ave. or so). And Mission St. is the center of Latino Sam Francisco (maybe a little gritty for kids).

If you want to see how the 1% lives in SF, outer Broadway (near the Presidio park) is where they live, Fillmore St north of Bush or so is where they have coffee and shop (also Union St.). Chestnut is another shopping street, this one more for the younger affluent crowd. Castro and upper Market St are the gay part of San Francisco (although gay residents now live everywhere including outer Broadway)--I used to consider it suitable even for kids but not right now since a couple of fat, old "urban naturists" starting sitting around sans clothing (I don't think the city is going to tolerate it much longer but it does for now).

Mission Bay is the city's newest neighborhood (take the "T" LRV line), being developed from a large old rail yard. Much of it is a new campus for UC San Francisco (essentially UC Berkeley's medical campus) but there's housing and buildings full of mainly biotech lab space.

Although you can drive to Sausalito and/or Tiburon on the way to or from Muir Woods, try the commuter ferry from the Ferry Building at the end of Market St on the Embarcadero for a nice cheap boat ride. Go for lunch when it's not crowded--Sausalito has plenty of places to eat (the boats run about every hour so you can go over at 11, come back at 1). And the Ferry Building itself is definitely worth seeing (mostly a food shopping hall).

[Leeds No.1]

No kids, just two of us. We're gonna have a pretty packed schedule I think, but we're looking for little 'filler' things that might be easy to get to and free/cheap.

I've already decided it'd be best just to park at the hotel and get a Muni passport, but does that allow BART use? Even if just BART in San Francisco? I've a friend in Berkeley that I might go and see- but then she might meet us in San Francisco. Is Berkeley worth visiting?

[Cal_Escapee]

No, Muni 1/3/7 day Passports and the CityPass that includes museums and such is NOT good on BART which, if you are going to Berkeley, is just as well because the monthly transit passes the locals buy are good on BART only for rides that begin and end in San Francisco so that wouldn't work going to Berkeley either. Just pay a regular fare to go to Berkeley (use the machines in the stations)--it's not hugely expensive.

Is it worth going to Berkeley? Might be. Obviously, UC is there which is a large campus--open to the public (even the dining venues in the student union)--and interesting to walk through. Telegraph Ave. which leads out the main (Sather) gate is lined with student-oriented dining and clothing options. There used to be more book stores and stuff but these days everybody buys books on the internet, even students. Berkeley also has a "gourmet ghetto" of fine dining (and food shopping), starting with Chez Panisse which more or less created the genre of "California Cuisine" decades ago but still holds its own with fairly simply cooked fresh, seasonal ingredients.

Berkeley being Berkeley (and therefore uber-tolerant of divergent lifestyles as well as politically left), even Telegraph has its share of annoying panhandlers and social parasites who are part of the scenery. Locals just step over them. You should too. San Francisco (just SF) spends hundreds of millions of dollars a year on social services trying to convince them to get off the street but so far it hasn't worked, and Berkeley does the same.

SF has built and is building more entire buildings with onsite drug and alcohol treatment, and medical services just to lure them inside but some want to stay outside and no one in the Bay Area (except me) is of a mood to stop them. The latest example is the "Occupy" encampment on Market St. in SF in front of the Federal Reserve Bank ("the Fed") which, as of a recent census, consisted of exactly 4 (four) people protesting and 30 alcoholics just camping there (and making a mess). But the cops and city are not of a mood to make them go. I mention all this because you'll see (and possibly recoil from) these people all over both San Francisco and Berkeley (the 2 most liberal governments in the area) but they need not be as pitiful as they look. It's a choice.

Filler things:

- Like I said, drive up to the top of Twin Peaks and take photos;

- consider the ferry ride to Sausalito (it's a couple dollars, takes maybe 2 hrs over and back),

- maybe get off the cable car (California St. line) on top of Nob Hill and check out the Episcopal cathedral there,

- possibly check out City Hall (taller dome than the US Capitol, excellent example of Beaux Arts-style, small city museum inside),

- Mission San Francisco de Asis (built 1776--where the city began and interesting graveyard: It's on Dolores St next to a larger, newer church),

- shop on and around Union Square including the full block-occupying San Francisco Centre urban mall (spelled the British way--in the US that means it has pretentions to class) for the full array of global upscale retailers,

- take BART to 16th St, come out of the station (dodging the drug dealers) and walk down 16th St (south) half a block to Pancho Villa Taqueria and get a burrito or a couple of tacos (actually, it's harder to get to but the best tacos in town may be from the El Tonayense truck parked in front of Best Buy).

[Leeds No.1]

Cheers for the advice. We're definitely gonna go up to Muir Woods, and I suppose we'll see what else we can fit in while there.

Pretty terrified about driving such long distances in a day relatively often...

[Cal_Escapee]

Originally Posted by Leeds No.1

Pretty terrified about driving such long distances in a day relatively often...

???

Do you mean in the Bay Area or through the Southwest to get here?

I am someone who, when I want to get somewhere, just drive. I have driven coast to coast in the US in 3 days. Twice a year I drive San Francisco to Tucson (900 miles or so, 14 hours) in one day--though I admit I think I'm approaching my limits doing that as I age (I'm now 67).

But none of the places I mentioned in the Bay Area take more than 1 to 1 1/2 hrs to get to (if you want to drive a bit further, there's Lake Tahoe and Yosemite ). The road to Muir Woods, once you get off 101, is a bit curvy but that's what makes it scenic.

[Leeds No.1]

We're driving Los Angeles - Palm Springs - Phoenix - Grand Canyon - Las Vegas - Death Valley - Yosemite - San Francisco - Monterey - Santa Barbara - Los Angeles.

Some of those journey distances are, for European standards, ridiculous. Death Valley - Yosemite could be particularly tiring... :s

[Cal_Escapee]

If you say so

Americans drive LA to Palm Springs for dinner or a show. Monterey is considered a day trip from SF (drive down, take the kids to the Aquarium, have dinner, drive back).

Given the roads (part of which are the same for my SF to Tucson migration), it may take a few hours to drive from Death Valley to Yosemite if you take the long way through CA although I highly recommend the scenery on route 190 heading west from Death Valley to 395, north on 395 to 190 (Tioga Road) at the village of Lee Vining, west on 190 over the Tioga Pass and through Yosemite to 41 into Yosemite Valley. I'm not sure what time of year you will be doing this because the Tioga Road (190) is closed by heavy snow (many feet of it) in winter. It also can be a problem for oldsters like me and anyone with respiratory or cardiac problems since at the top of the pass the altitude is something like 11,000 ft, but boy is it scenic--and much shorter in terms of miles driven than the other way through Bakersfield and up to Merced.

Views from (and of) Tioga Road









Mono Lake at the intersection of routes 395 and 190


http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...QEwBA&dur=2981

What happens to the road in winter:


http://campingsierra.com/2009/192/