When will Tampa get it's next 400+ footer? - Page 3

TampaMike · October 2nd, 2012, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmaddrey

That is exactly it Jason. The old Woolworth's is practically begging to be developed into a grocery store, I can easily imagine a Publix concept in there that worked more like an Aldi in terms of size and operations. Put a Publix in there with a small deli, meat market etc... and you would instantly make living downtown much more enjoyable. I would also go so far as to think a department store anchor like Target could go a long way, offering both retail and grocery. Then as you mentioned, close the Trolley's loop and make that network flow all the better for interconnecting the 3 downtown neighborhoods. Give it that, and DT has a real edge on Westshore, connect DT to Westshore and the airport and you've hit pay dirt.

Lets hope that with the streetcar potentially going free to increase ridership and furthermore allow federal grants to roll in again, the city will extend the streetcar.

Honestly feel like the city would focus more on the streetcar than the Riverwalk. Riverwalk is great and would be great for Tampa, but streetcar should have priority over Riverwalk any day.

Jasonhouse · October 2nd, 2012, 06:10 AM

^With the riverwalk all but paid for, I'm hopeful that's exactly what will happen.

kmthurman · October 2nd, 2012, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TPAMAN

I believe they should redesign Venu into a hotel instead. This would help it move to construction quicker as the property would be in a perfect area on the riverwalk and would add some regular tourist traffic which in turn would help the nearby museums and possible restaurants coming to the riverwalk.

That property changed hands in May -- so Venu is unlikley.

http://www.hcpafl.org/CamaDisplay.as...0000030A#sales

kmthurman · October 2nd, 2012, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasonhouse

^With the riverwalk all but paid for, I'm hopeful that's exactly what will happen.

As long as HART is the failure of leadership that it continues to be this is unlikely. However, if Buckhorn is successful in forcing them to adopt a new plan for the streetcar currently -- it could be the model for how to plan to extend it and other projects.

TPAMAN · October 2nd, 2012, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmthurman

That property changed hands in May -- so Venu is unlikley.

http://www.hcpafl.org/CamaDisplay.as...0000030A#sales

Interesting. Wonder what the new owners plans are for it?

kmthurman · October 2nd, 2012, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TPAMAN

Interesting. Wonder what the new owners plans are for it?

This is the new owners according to CCP Kennedy LLC's corporate records:

http://www.convergentcap.com/

Here's a list of their projects since 2008, including this one:

http://www.convergentcap.com/pdf/201...losedDeals.pdf

TPAMAN · October 2nd, 2012, 08:47 PM

^
Hopefully condos or hotel would be part of their plan since both appear on their portfolio. Thanks for the info.

Del Mayberry · October 2nd, 2012, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasonhouse

^The city approved them, but the DT market basically wasn't considered attractive enough to actually build them. Complete the riverwalk, fix the streetcar so it is a proper one, and get DT a grocery store, and DT the residential market will probably hit the critical mass it didn't quite achieve during the past growth cycle.

Well, it sounds like were back to the chicken or egg theory. If there will ever be another residential build in DT, hopefully they will develop some buildings that appeal to younger people. Older people with money tend to want to be on water.

Del Mayberry · October 2nd, 2012, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TampaMike

Lets hope that with the streetcar potentially going free to increase ridership and furthermore allow federal grants to roll in again, the city will extend the streetcar.

Honestly feel like the city would focus more on the streetcar than the Riverwalk. Riverwalk is great and would be great for Tampa, but streetcar should have priority over Riverwalk any day.

The riverwalk is a great asset but the trolly I have my doubts. Here's a grim article about the trolley.

http://www2.tbo.com/news/business/20...ain-ar-517429/

For those who have never taken a ride on the trolley, you should. It goes so slow it's pathetic. If they could make it go faster that would make it better but that can't happen because of all the stops it makes.

Del Mayberry · October 3rd, 2012, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmthurman

That property changed hands in May -- so Venu is unlikley.

http://www.hcpafl.org/CamaDisplay.as...0000030A#sales

What exactly is it zoned for now?

Property Use:

1830 OFF MULT-STY C

A hotel could work there but I don't know how there would be any street level or river area activity since the land is so small.

Del Mayberry · October 3rd, 2012, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmaddrey

That is exactly it Jason. The old Woolworth's is practically begging to be developed into a grocery store, I can easily imagine a Publix concept in there that worked more like an Aldi in terms of size and operations. Put a Publix in there with a small deli, meat market etc... and you would instantly make living downtown much more enjoyable. I would also go so far as to think a department store anchor like Target could go a long way, offering both retail and grocery. Then as you mentioned, close the Trolley's loop and make that network flow all the better for interconnecting the 3 downtown neighborhoods. Give it that, and DT has a real edge on Westshore, connect DT to Westshore and the airport and you've hit pay dirt.

Sounds like a great idea but doubt Publix is interested in that. I don't know if Woolworth's is in good enough condition right now for something to move in for the long run. Even though it was temporarily prepped for a RNC party, this building may need to come down or have lots of money put in to preserve it. Johnknee may have some input here.

Jasonhouse · October 3rd, 2012, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del Mayberry

What exactly is it zoned for now?

Property Use:

1830 OFF MULT-STY C

A hotel could work there but I don't know how there would be any street level or river area activity since the land is so small.

City zoning map indicates CBD-2.

http://www.tampagov.net/dept_land_de...oning/I-12.pdf

rmaddrey · October 3rd, 2012, 10:32 PM

I am to believe that if a company like Publix were to move into Woolworth's they would receive substantial subsidies and tax abatements to offset renovation costs. It's not uncommon for the city or county to offer 15,20 and 30 year abatements to places like Walmart. If they were willing to do so in the conversion of the old federal court house to a hotel, I would imagine a grocer/retail environment would be an equal value to the community and business/residence at large. You want to make downtown a neighborhood, give the people some place to walk and shop.

With regards to the trolley, it's actually not that slow in comparison to many other rail systems I've ridden in New Orleans and San Francisco. The cars are capable of greater speeds if you put them on an open stretch. Put a line down Florida Avenue and connect out to Seminole Heights (similar to the original trolley system route 1920-1940) and you could push those cars up to 40mph on stretches. In all honesty, if we can't get modern GLR there are ways to make that trolley system work damn near like one. Imagine a line straight out Kennedy to the airport with spurs to connect Westshore and Hyde Park. That's a pretty convincing start to efficiently moving people from community to business community and back again. Someone visiting Tampa from another city is not going to want to get on a bus...but they will be willing to take a train.

Del Mayberry · October 3rd, 2012, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasonhouse

City zoning map indicates CBD-2.

http://www.tampagov.net/dept_land_de...oning/I-12.pdf

what does the "2" stand for? Height or type of building or what? Sorry if I've asked this before.

Jasonhouse · October 4th, 2012, 12:00 AM

^Higher intensity basically... CBD-2 is the most development intensive, densest zoning the city has. Height is essentially limited by the FAA restrictions, and the will of the city council.

miketpa · October 8th, 2012, 02:59 AM

Is Element the only 400+ footer in Tampa since 1992? Even in the latest boom I think the Towers of Channelside were about 330 feet and Skypoint around 370. I don't think the Fed Courthouse is over 400 either. I think we'll get another one, residential, but I think it would another 5-7 years. I'd sy we get another two or three above 300 feet before we see this happen.

Jasonhouse · February 13th, 2013, 05:43 AM

So I guess this thread has its answer, since the upcoming riverwalk apartments will probably clear 400ft.

USF802 · February 13th, 2013, 09:29 PM

Now the question is, when will Tampa get the 500 footer? If I had to guess, I would say 6-7 years.

Quegiebo · March 20th, 2013, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USF802

Now the question is, when will Tampa get the 500 footer? If I had to guess, I would say 6-7 years.

or 20...

Jasonhouse · March 20th, 2013, 06:20 PM

Lol. I don't think it will be that long. The better question might be, will the next 500 footer be office or res/hotel?

October 3rd, 2012, 10:32 PM	#53
rmaddrey Registered User Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 34 Likes (Received): 1	I am to believe that if a company like Publix were to move into Woolworth's they would receive substantial subsidies and tax abatements to offset renovation costs. It's not uncommon for the city or county to offer 15,20 and 30 year abatements to places like Walmart. If they were willing to do so in the conversion of the old federal court house to a hotel, I would imagine a grocer/retail environment would be an equal value to the community and business/residence at large. You want to make downtown a neighborhood, give the people some place to walk and shop. With regards to the trolley, it's actually not that slow in comparison to many other rail systems I've ridden in New Orleans and San Francisco. The cars are capable of greater speeds if you put them on an open stretch. Put a line down Florida Avenue and connect out to Seminole Heights (similar to the original trolley system route 1920-1940) and you could push those cars up to 40mph on stretches. In all honesty, if we can't get modern GLR there are ways to make that trolley system work damn near like one. Imagine a line straight out Kennedy to the airport with spurs to connect Westshore and Hyde Park. That's a pretty convincing start to efficiently moving people from community to business community and back again. Someone visiting Tampa from another city is not going to want to get on a bus...but they will be willing to take a train. __________________ Robert Maddrey Editor - DownShiftMagazine.com

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October 2nd, 2012, 06:10 AM	#42
Jasonhouse Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12,272 Likes (Received): 8	^With the riverwalk all but paid for, I'm hopeful that's exactly what will happen.

October 2nd, 2012, 08:47 PM	#47
TPAMAN Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 430 Likes (Received): 3	^ Hopefully condos or hotel would be part of their plan since both appear on their portfolio. Thanks for the info.

October 4th, 2012, 12:00 AM	#55
Jasonhouse Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12,272 Likes (Received): 8	^Higher intensity basically... CBD-2 is the most development intensive, densest zoning the city has. Height is essentially limited by the FAA restrictions, and the will of the city council.

October 8th, 2012, 02:59 AM	#56
miketpa Registered User Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Tampa Posts: 50 Likes (Received): 0	Is Element the only 400+ footer in Tampa since 1992? Even in the latest boom I think the Towers of Channelside were about 330 feet and Skypoint around 370. I don't think the Fed Courthouse is over 400 either. I think we'll get another one, residential, but I think it would another 5-7 years. I'd sy we get another two or three above 300 feet before we see this happen.

February 13th, 2013, 05:43 AM	#57
Jasonhouse Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12,272 Likes (Received): 8	So I guess this thread has its answer, since the upcoming riverwalk apartments will probably clear 400ft.

February 13th, 2013, 09:29 PM	#58
USF802 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 172 Likes (Received): 2	Now the question is, when will Tampa get the 500 footer? If I had to guess, I would say 6-7 years.

March 20th, 2013, 06:20 PM	#60
Jasonhouse Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12,272 Likes (Received): 8	Lol. I don't think it will be that long. The better question might be, will the next 500 footer be office or res/hotel?