Charlotte Now Over 750,000

[ohpenn]

Yeah one day Jacksonville might even have more people than Miami and Miami might fall off the radar....

[nostyle]

Originally Posted by ohpenn

Yeah one day Jacksonville might even have more people than Miami and Miami might fall off the radar....

Random.

[ohpenn]

It's a response regarding those concerned about Birmingham's population in AL relative to other AL cities.

[nostyle]

Ah...guess I was sidetracked by the Charlotte conversation snuck into this thread.

:-P

Montgomery's MSA is 375k. Nobody in their right mind would compare it to Birmingham, with an MSA of over 1.1 million. The Jacksonville/Miami comparison is a solid one to point out the absurdity of the argument. San Antonio is also larger than Dallas. Is San Antonio going to 'overtake' Dallas in terms of 'status'?

[krazeeboi]

Originally Posted by ohpenn

It's a response regarding those concerned about Birmingham's population in AL relative to other AL cities.

Not a good comparison at all. Jacksonville consolidated with its whole county to gain the status of FL's largest city and Miami was growing healthily at the time. I don't know if Montgomery is doing a bunch of annexing, but there's no denying Birmingham's significant population loss, the rate at which would ensure that one of the smaller municipalities would eventually trump it in population. In this case, it's not just a statistic on paper that doesn't reflect some reality on the ground.

[ohpenn]

How Jacksonville grew is irrelevant. The point is that its size in terms of political boundaries is irrelevant in the real world terms. Miami much larger.

[krazeeboi]

Originally Posted by ohpenn

How Jacksonville grew is irrelevant. The point is that its size in terms of political boundaries is irrelevant in the real world terms. Miami much larger.

You're missing the point, which is about steep population losses in the city of Birmingham. Yes it is undoubtedly the largest metro in AL, but that doesn't negate the problems the city is having and how it's affecting municipal growth. Montgomery or any other city overtaking Birmingham in population isn't the real issue; it's just symptomatic.

[ohpenn]

I'm not missing the point.

City population is important to the health of the city. However, the "size" of a city based on its political boundaries is irrelevant to its real world size.

Yes the political boundaries matter to the population that lives within it - city budgets, schools, public works etc. The population losses of cities like Birmingham is definitely a problem.

The advantage of cities like Charlotte in having a wide tax base is significant in this regard - along with having more control of the metro destiny with such vast land.

[desertpunk]

Originally Posted by ohpenn

I'm not missing the point.

City population is important to the health of the city. However, the "size" of a city based on its political boundaries is irrelevant to its real world size.

Yes the political boundaries matter to the population that lives within it - city budgets, schools, public works etc. The population losses of cities like Birmingham is definitely a problem.

The advantage of cities like Charlotte in having a wide tax base is significant in this regard - along with having more control of the metro destiny with such vast land.

Cities that annex their suburbs almost always fare better than cities which become hemmed in. That's slowly changing but for cities like Birmingham, it could be a decade or more before the big turnaround. Charlotte is indeed in a good position in this regard. Jacksonville is so large that parts of it feel amorphous and disconnected. Pulling those far-flung districts together into a seamless urban identity will definitely improve Jax's image.

[krazeeboi]

Originally Posted by ohpenn

Yes the political boundaries matter to the population that lives within it - city budgets, schools, public works etc. The population losses of cities like Birmingham is definitely a problem.

And that was the point. Thanks.

[ohpenn]

I made the point about Jacksonville because a point was made about the superficial aspect of this - that a city like Birmingham will be "smaller" than Montgomery or whatever.

[Stuck in Bama]

The thing has impressed me about Charlotte is that the city and county governments seem to be working together for the common good. Even with other major metro areas in NC, and a less that steller economy, Charlotte is holding its own and will contiune to be the next star city in the region.

Birmingham has 31 other towns surrounding it looking out for their own interest, and a county government that is a complete mess. Birmingham itself is trying to make "lemons into lemonade". The new Railroad Park downtown is a major success, along with the construction of a new baseball stadium next door, are just a couple of things that could turn the city around hopefully within the next decade or two.

[ah59396]

This has kinda become a pseudo Charlotte development page, so I figured I'd post this here too:

The Federal DOT and NCDOT met in Charlotte this morning to announce that they will be funding 50% of the Blue Line Extension. This grant was necessary in order for the future construction of the 9.2 mile line.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/201...l-funding.html

Great news for Charlotte and a huge move in the right direction.

[UrbanMyth]

Originally Posted by Stuck in Bama

The thing has impressed me about Charlotte is that the city and county governments seem to be working together for the common good. Even with other major metro areas in NC, and a less that steller economy, Charlotte is holding its own and will contiune to be the next star city in the region.

Birmingham has 31 other towns surrounding it looking out for their own interest, and a county government that is a complete mess. Birmingham itself is trying to make "lemons into lemonade". The new Railroad Park downtown is a major success, along with the construction of a new baseball stadium next door, are just a couple of things that could turn the city around hopefully within the next decade or two.

I think the key is regional cooperation and a solid vision backed by political will. Cheers to B'ham!

[Lakelander]

Originally Posted by desertpunk

Cities that annex their suburbs almost always fare better than cities which become hemmed in. That's slowly changing but for cities like Birmingham, it could be a decade or more before the big turnaround. Charlotte is indeed in a good position in this regard. Jacksonville is so large that parts of it feel amorphous and disconnected. Pulling those far-flung districts together into a seamless urban identity will definitely improve Jax's image.

Jax is actually fairly small and compact once you realize the merger consolidated a 30 square mile urban city with 200,000 residents with +750 miles of suburban and rural county. From this perspective, it's no different than most urban areas under 1.4 million. Focusing on it's actual urban core and not ignoring it is all Jax needs to do for its image.

[Dale]

Originally Posted by Lakelander

Jax is actually fairly small and compact once you realize the merger consolidated a 30 square mile urban city with 200,000 residents with +750 miles of suburban and rural county. From this perspective, it's no different than most urban areas under 1.4 million. Focusing on it's actual urban core and not ignoring it is all Jax needs to do for its image.

But what else can Jax do since they've already annexed virtually the entire county ?

[Lakelander]

The same thing any other city that doesn't annex would do. The actual preconsolidated City of Jax was twice as dense in 1950 as it is today, meaning there's a huge opportunity for growth through infill and increased density.

Long term, Jax shouldn't look to compete with it's booming suburbs (Clay and St. Johns County) for cheap autocentric track housing. As Duval's suburban area's rapidly age (most are +30 years old now), that sprawl isn't filling up the rest of the county (most of the undeveloped land is wetland), it's jumping the line into Clay and St. Johns along I-95, I-795, County Road 210, and the First Coast Outer Beltway. Fighting for sprawl growth is a losing battle.

Instead should look to become the urban center of North Florida, similar to what St. Petersburg has done in Pinellas County. That county is completely sprawled but St. Pete has focused on the arts, increasing infill density and becoming a bike friendly community. Imo, Jax should utilize it's historic urban assets and spine network of rail corridors to do the same.