[Czech Republic] Tramways and Tram Lines

[bigtom]

Originally Posted by Bobek_Azbest

Problém můžeme zjednodušit na obvyklé "o peníze jde až v první řadě". Podobně jako u silnic je prostě velký vnitřní dluh v údržbě a obnově.

u některých tratí vyloženě dlabalo na technologickou kázeň (v případě BKV je zejména podstatná příprava spodku, do kterého se panely ukládají, a kdy se místo podkladního asfaltu používalo leccos).

O peníze jde v první řadě určitě, ale nutno zdůraznit, že o peníze pro korupci. Jinak víme, že kvalita je často mnohem levnější, než to, co za nás naši politici kupují. Vlastně nejen politici. I my normální lidé raději koupíme 1 kg šunky a 3 kg (celkem 4 kg) vody a mouky za 100 Kč, než 1,5 kg šunky bez mouky a vody za 150 Kč. Za naše politiky viz zaplátování silnic za miliony a pak článek v novinách s firmou, která vynalezla nový trvanlivější materiál na plátování za 50 až 150 Kč na jeden výmol.

U tramvajových tratí s panely už bylo vysvětleno, že na kvalitu se nehledělo a panely samy o sobě jsou nesmysl. Ale dokázal by někdo zcestovalý říct, jestli nové tratě na okrajích Prahy už nezpůsobují zemětřesení pro cestující? Já tramvají jezdím jen po centru, a největší rozjezd zažiju v Lidické a Palackého mostě, kde je celkem nová trať a už to s sebou háže jak na Sibiři. Ale to jsou ty panely, že?

Co kvalita oceli, kol tramvají atd? Psalo se, že pražská kola mají moc nízký ten výstupek do kolejnice, takže brousí koleje více, a obroušené koleje se často musí měnit, protože na nich tramvaje poskakují. Příležitost k jednoduché nápravě?

Jinak k názoru, že si nemáme stěžovat, bych si dovolil napsat, že nesouhlasím. Kritika je způsob, jak dosáhnout pokroku. Můsime si brát příklad z nejlepších, ne z nejhorších. Pražská tramvaj možná odveze čtvrt města, takže je pak i na silnicích víc místa (směšný je argument autařů, že nechtějí dotovat z daní MHD, protože ji nepoužívají. Používají ji na vyprázdnění svých silnic) a méně smogu, ale komfort cestování je horší. Zvlášť na kluzkých dřevěných sedačkách po každém výmolu sjedu dolů. A zlepšení může být levnější, než si myslíme. Jen ho prosadit na úkor korupčních příležitostí.

[historyworks]

If I have a choice between a new tram system on great track with beautiful landscaping that (typically) crawls along at low average speed with infrequent service and a Czech tram system with BKV track and weeds growing between the panels but with fast, frequent service in older trams I prefer the latter. Why? Because I want to get places quickly, frequently and efficiently. After all that's the purpose of public transport.

Prague's line 11, for example, covers the distance of the Adelaide (Australia) new light-rail in less time, in spite of more stops and being on-street in mixed traffic and without Adelaide's new trams, new track, exclusive right of way and some non-compulsory stops. Welcome to the reality of a "perfect" new tram system. Some of the "model" French ones are real crawlers too. It's important to keep a sense of perspective. Sure, things can be better with Czech tram systems but be grateful for what you have, they're world-beaters. Even the Brno system carries as many passengers as Melbourne's famous system in spite of the city being a fraction of the population of Melbourne.

[Tramwayman]

Originally Posted by historyworks

If I have a choice between a new tram system on great track with beautiful landscaping that (typically) crawls along at low average speed with infrequent service and a Czech tram system with BKV track and weeds growing between the panels but with fast, frequent service in older trams I prefer the latter.

But Prague tram system is not a fastest tram system in the world and in Europe too.
The most important thing that I don't like in Prague system is that even on new tracks on the junctions and joints or curves trams slow down too much. Why? the reason to change tracks even not ideally is to make them faster and more comfortable, but in all videos in HD I watch on youtube on all joints and junctions trams are very noisy even on new ones and running very slowly on them, why? What's the problem with tracks? And also new tracks in many places are not melded, hearind the noise "dan dan dan dan" and also the tracks are not covered with anything, just like the railway mode everything open, that makes them even noisier.

Well here in Tbilisi we don't have tram system any more and if someone asks I prefer 100% French manufacturers and companies (well Alstom) to build tram system with ideal tracks in concrete, everything modern, then Czech builders to build cheaper and the way they build in Prague! The quality there is not good and definitely the tracks without concrete will go all wavy very soon.

I think Skoda 15T's potential is all lost in such a city that is Prague, they should run in much modern cities with a lot of straight tracks to run on very high speeds, though I don't like the design of this trams not exterior nor interior (very cheap and without any style just some ordinary garbage) I like it's technical advantages over trams with fixed bogies, (though 4 bogies because of that is a minus).

Also as for me I would prefer Skoda 15T for Tbilisi but with a better designer to design tram for us cause this standart variant is very poor and so not cool.

French Citadis trams in this aspect are wonderfull, there design is almost all the time perfect as exterior faces also interior and the colors they use!
The best one for me is new Citadis 402 models fro Tours!

For example Polish and German systems are faster. (Not all of course)

I always wanted to know, well Skoda 15T has a speedometer number maximum at 80 km/h, though speed is limited to 60 km/h for Prague and 70 km/h for Riga, Now I wanna know, can this trams technically go faster then 80 km/h? are the engines designed for that? While testing what was the best result on straight track? Or because it's a tram and manufacturers think that it won't need more then 70 km/h anywhere, so they're not even able to go faster then that? Or they don't even test them faster then that?
What is Skoda 15T's maximum acceleration? is it the same as for T3? 1,8m2/s


I think Polish tram drivers are quite racers cause they don't even slow down on much of the junctions or joints (doesn't depend on if the tracks are good or bad), they run almost as fast as on straight tracks the fact I like very much!!!!

Zurich tram system is quite fast especially Glattalbahn lines in notheastern part.

Here new tram line in Krakov, very fast. especially from 8:39 to 9:36 the fastest section, probably 80 km/h.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=how5oJgJFeE

[Reichenberger]

Trams in Prague aren't certainly the fastest ones, but I'm quite fascinated by how sure you are of everything just from watching some videos on youtube...

[Tramwayman]

Originally Posted by Reichenberger

Trams in Prague aren't certainly the fastest ones, but I'm quite fascinated by how sure you are of everything just from watching some videos on youtube...

Well the person that is very often in Prague has confirmed to me that yes trams are quite noisy on many switches and joints new ones too.

And if not that, you can clearly hear the noise of the tram bumps on switches, wchich should not be at least on new tracks and new switches.

[Tramfreak]

Tastes differ. 15T is my favourite tram design, I have not seen a better-looking tram yet. Exterior and interior is just perfect (very nice details, too) and the Prague livery is the best one I know. Citadis trams are OK, there are big differences though. The Strasbourg tram is quite cool (90% of the coolness of 15T), but the Lyon tram is definitely not cool! The Tours tram lacks a face, I just feel there's something wrong with it. The connection of the front with the body is a painful detail in most Citadis trams. In Škoda, they can do it better!

At least there's something we can be proud of

[historyworks]

No Prague is not the fastest system but it's one of the fastest in average speed (which is what matters). When I use public transport I want to get from point A to point B as quickly as possible. Anybody gushing with admiration over some of these new systems and their Citadis trams ought to experience the operational reality of some of them.

And I've done plenty of distance in Skoda 15T now. It's the best tram in the world, both technology and design. Citadis has nothing on it.

[Myrtonos]

When I use any transport, I want to get from place to place within a reasonable amount of time.

[historyworks]

Does anyone know the dates, from start of construction to opening, of the Modrany extension in Prague, from Branik to Levskeho? And the cost of the project? Thank you.

[Fafejta Martin]

tram line was begun in 1991 and was completed on the 26th May 1995

[historyworks]

Originally Posted by Fafejta Martin

tram line was begun in 1991 and was completed on the 26th May 1995

Thank you.

[historyworks]

Is it true T2s are to finish on Liberec-Jablonec service this year? What are they to be replaced with? I presume the proposal for standard gauge has not proceeded.

[Reichenberger]

Originally Posted by historyworks

Is it true T2s are to finish on Liberec-Jablonec service this year?

AFAIK no. Where does the information come from? DP Liberec/Jablonec.n.N. is almost broke and theres nothing to replace them with.
By the way, reconstruction works on the Jablonec line are to proceed this year, namely between 'Nová Ruda' and 'Vratislavice n.N. výhybna', of course incl. preparations for regauging.

Have a look: PDF

[historyworks]

Thank you. "Preparation" for regauging is not actual regauging though, I presume that is sometime in the future?

I saw this information about a tour on another forum, but obviously not a farewell tour:

The last train of Tatra T2 cars in the world, numbers 18+19 via the
Liberec-Jablonec interurban line. Tour on July 12.
Start at the Depot in Liberec at 14:00, details:
http://transphoto.ru/events.php?action=show&eid=44

[Reichenberger]

That's right, these fanrides are quite regular, there's no special meaning, so no worries for the time being

The "preparation" thing is quite simple. Everything is rebuilt as for 1435 mm gauge track, but with 1000 mm gauge being set. When the line's entirely rebuilt and prepared in this way, it's only a matter of removing the "inner" 1000 mm rail and setting a new one for the normal gauge.

I can't find a photo of my own at the moment, but basically it looks like this.

[historyworks]

Is the Boveraclub still alive?

http://boveraclub.czechtrams.com/index.php?page=home

[Reichenberger]

Alive and well, and to my surprise the website's also quite up-to-date, despite the original webmaster being too busy to maintain it.

Aside from the vehicles listed, you can technically include the RT6S #85, KT4D #105 and even a renovated and functioning Karosa B732 bus (namely #317) to the collection as well. The Karosa is, by the way, the first city bus from Liberec ever to be preserved. I guess late is better than never

The only problem is the planned museum, their run for EU grant for this project failed due to the economical situation of Liberec (which is almost bankrupt), but the hope remains - the museum can possibly become a part of the new IQlandia complex, which is to be built right next to the tram depot.

[historyworks]

Thank you!

[historyworks]

Does anybody have any knowledge of whether an estimate was made of the number of people carried on Prague trams and buses when parts of the metro was closed after the 2002 floods? Normally the trams carry about 1 million people a day, the buses a little less (depending I guess on whether we talk about greater Prague or not).

Any information appreciated thanks.

[bigtom]

http://ekonomika.idnes.cz/foto.aspx?...3f38_Kursk.JPG

Smíchovské tramvaje odjíždějí z Prahy. Řekl bych, že novým městům možná časem přivedou i pár turistů z ČR.