[Poprad] Winter Olympic Games?

[Mr. America]

Originally Posted by adik40000

You're acting like some selfish. Do you want all the best. We offer half and half.

Easy, easy. Let's talk without personal invectives

[Anuris]

Originally Posted by Gatsby

sorry, but with alpine sking staged in Slovakia it would look as if the Olympics were more Slovakian than Polish, which they are not supposed to be. notably in terms of the costs to be covered as Slovakia is to pay 20-30% of the bill. since hockey is one of the most popular sports in North America, it would be utter folly for Poland to give away 2 by far most popular sports. the rest doesn't even come close.

not to mention the promotional gain for the sport to be expected in Poland while in Slovakia the market is pretty much saturated.

and you cannot say that in Poland hockey has never been popular. it has just died down due to lack of success. but the potential is there.

Well, you don't have to give us alpine skiing, which either way isn't that much popular here (certainly not as much as hockey). You can organize it by yourself on your own mountain hills near Krakow. Good luck with that...

It's kind of funny that you talk about something being utterly folly for Poland when your Olympic committee basically only wants to give us alpine skiing (which you can't secure without us although it is crucial for the candidacy) and... just for appearance's sake... a little bit of hockey. Oh, forgive me, there's also bobsleigh, since the tracks are expensive to build and their exploitability after the Olympics is uncertain...

You know what, take the ice hockey and give us ski jumping instead. The market in Poland is saturated, but here in Slovakia it would bring great promotional gain for the sport. We already have the ski jumping hill, we only need to start using it more...Our current results in this sport are weak, but the potential is there.

But seriously, we don't have to have the whole ice hockey tournament, but if your side isn't willing to be fair (your current offer is not fair) and treat us as an equal partner in this (which you don't), then there's no point for us to participate in your Olympic efforts. Instead, we can wait one or two decades longer till the economic conditions in Slovakia get better and then try to submit our own candidacy.

Your only luck is that our politicians and members of the Olympic committee are mostly thieves, fraudsters and selfish opportunist who will gladly accept whichever offer you give them… because no matter what, they themselves will profit from it and that's the only thing that they care about. So enjoy your candidacy. Unfortunately, the Olympics itself will most likely go to St. Moritz or Oslo anyway...


PS: Sorry for the overly snarky tone. Don't take it too seriously.

[adik40000]

Build two halls on the 12k and 8k in Poprad?

I do not understand what you mean. That you do not behave fairly. The entire hockey or nothing. This is silly ...

[Gatsby]

@Anuris

You know what, take the ice hockey and give us ski jumping instead

personally, I'd love to

we don't have to have the whole ice hockey tournament

that depends on the capacity of arenas at your disposal. the 15000 arena under construction in Krakow wouldn't be used for hockey anyway. we'd need to fall back on "Spodek" in Katowice. if you could build a properly sized arena, you'd have a case to host even the bigger part of hockey, with Poland constructing a smaller venue in Nowy Targ. but to my knowledge, a 6000-seater is on the table, so for you only the smaller part of the tournament is an option. and as things stand, it is apparently obligatory for the final to take place in the host country (which technically would be Poland). for now then Katowice seem the great beneficiary...

on top of that, a key question must be answered. will IOC at all permit such splitting of hockey events, how does it comply with their regulations?...

[Qwert]

Reading this thread convinces me more and more that these common games aren't good idea.

The main source of disagreement is that Slovakia is simply a country with better conditions for the winter sports and these sports are more popular here. OTOH Poland as a bigger country with more resources wants bigger part of the games including the host city on its territory.

From Slovak (maybe selfish) point of view it would be probably better to wait for a decade or so and organise the games alone. We have all the necessary natural conditions, we only lack money. Poland on the other hand would have hard times organising the games alone especially the Alpine skying which is a crucial sport. Money-wise it probably wouldn't be a problem.

So the question is what could Poland offer to convince Slovakia to give up its own games and share it with Poland. The only advantage of such arrangement which comes to my mind would be possibility to hold the games sooner. Otherwise it has mostly disadvantages.

But this doesn't mean Slovakia and Poland wouldn't eventually bid for the games together. Our Olympic Committee is full of old fuckers and for them this is the last (and very tempting) shot to provide their families for next couple of generations. The games would be a huge corruption opportunity.

[Gatsby]

for me it's clear that we can't get the Olympics separately. Poland would have to plough through the National Park, which wouldn't go down well with the IOC and the public anyway. you (excuse moi) lack clout to go it alone. esp. having to face the likes of Ukraine which is also set to bid...not to mention we've both tried this before and failed, so why don't we learn from past mistakes?

in my opinion there's no other way than to compromise...and now, because there's little chance that we get the Olimpics straight away. I'd rather live to see them, you know

[Aquilani]

Well, let's be honest :

1.) Poland doesn't have a possibility to organise Winter Olympic Games on its own - we don't have enough mountains for alpine skiing.

2.) Slovakia doesn't have a possibility to organise Winter Olympic Games on its own. The only big city in Poland and Slovakia which is close to mountains and is popular among tourists from all the world is Kraków ( about 9 million visitors per year).

Zakopane has already tried in 2006, Poprad tried twice in 2002 and 2006. Both attempts were without success.

Winter Olympic Games in 2006 were organised in Torino, in 2010 in Vancouver. These are much bigger cities than Zakopane or Poprad. Only Kraków can be compared with them..

So, there is one conclusion :

Neither Poland nor Slovakia is able to get Winter Olympic Games on its own. We can either cooperate or quarrel and achieve nothing. I think that first option is better

[Anuris]

Originally Posted by adik40000

I do not understand what you mean. That you do not behave fairly. The entire hockey or nothing. This is silly ...

I never said "all hockey or nothing". That’s Ayran's point view. I myself explicitly stated that it's not necessary for us to insist on hosting the whole tournament alone. But we certainly should not accept just one group... You can have the final, but we should also get some of the other play-off matches, as well as some other sports. Alpine skiing and half of the hockey tournament is not enough.

You blame us for acting selfishly in regard to hockey, you say that you are generous and offer an even split of the tournament... But what about the Olympics as a whole? What does your side offer us besides skiing and some hockey? Until now nothing... We asked for biathlon because it's one of our most popular and successful winter sports and we have good conditions for it in Osrblie. Your representatives were against this proposal, because biathlon is very popular in general and its numerous different competitions and races form together a substantial part of the Olympic program. So because it's more practical to organize it in one place and because you don't want to give up this huge bulk of Olympic program, you're keeping all the biathlon for yourself. Ok, whatever.... So what are you willing to give us instead? Figure skating? Speed skating? Curling? That's all supposed to be in Krakow, right? Cross-country skiing? Ski jumping? Nordic combined? You want that as well, don't you? Snowboarding? You already gave us alpine skiing so you'll probably keep this for yourself. So what’s left? Ah, bobsleigh! You'll give us that, because it's expensive to build the track and since none of our countries really cares about this sport nobody wants to pay the high price. Thank you very much.

As was already remarked by others, it's all about compromises. I will be happy to hear some from the official Polish representatives. However, to this day, I've heard none...

[Anuris]

Originally Posted by Gatsby

that depends on the capacity of arenas at your disposal. the 15000 arena under construction in Krakow wouldn't be used for hockey anyway. we'd need to fall back on "Spodek" in Katowice. if you could build a properly sized arena, you'd have a case to host even the bigger part of hockey, with Poland constructing a smaller venue in Nowy Targ. but to my knowledge, a 6000-seater is on the table, so for you only the smaller part of the tournament is an option. and as things stand, it is apparently obligatory for the final to take place in the host country (which technically would be Poland). for now then Katowice seem the great beneficiary...

We could build a new arena in Poprad as well as in Liptovsky Mikulas. When Lev played KHL in Poprad, the owners of the club announced plans to build a new arena for 9 000 spectators. We all know how that turned out, but the arena could still be built one day. Olympic Games are a great opportunity for it to happen. If Tatras can get more recognition in the world and especially in Russia (the Olympics could help to achieve this), the improved financial situation of the region due to the larger number of tourists could allow for Poprad to once again play in KHL in such an arena filled with spectators not just from Poprad itself, but from much larger area – including KHL fans from Russia, who could combine their trip to the KHL matches of their teams in Poprad with a prolonged recreational holiday in Tatras.

[Qwert]

Originally Posted by Aquilani

Well, let's be honest :

1.) Poland doesn't have a possibility to organise Winter Olympic Games on its own - we don't have enough mountains for alpine skiing.

2.) Slovakia doesn't have a possibility to organise Winter Olympic Games on its own. The only big city in Poland and Slovakia which is close to mountains and is popular among tourists from all the world is Kraków ( about 9 million visitors per year).

Zakopane has already tried in 2006, Poprad tried twice in 2002 and 2006. Both attempts were without success.

Winter Olympic Games in 2006 were organised in Torino, in 2010 in Vancouver. These are much bigger cities than Zakopane or Poprad. Only Kraków can be compared with them..

So, there is one conclusion :

Neither Poland nor Slovakia is able to get Winter Olympic Games on its own. We can either cooperate or quarrel and achieve nothing. I think that first option is better

Last WOG were awarded to big cities, but before they took place even in villages. Next games should be in Sochi with only 340,000 inh. and in Pyeongchang county with 43,000 inh. You don't really need huge metropolis for WOG, it's not that big event. Krakow is much more famous than Poprad or any other Slovak town, but this isn't about popularity, many sites which hosted WOG were pretty much unknown before.

BTW, Karkow isn't really that close to Tatras, it's 105 km from Zakopane and 175-200 km (depending on which route do you choose) from Chopok (alpine skying) and 240 km from Osrblie (where biathlon may or may not take place).

If we think in this scale, host city could be even Košice, 130 km from Starý Smokovec, 185 km from Chopok and 200 km from Osrblie. Not to mention connection of these places with Košice is much better than with Krakow.

But, we don't even need Košice as a host city, in Slovakia it would be possible to concentrate whole event into Tatras and Low Tatras and the valley between them. This area has quite good infrastructure which will be even much better in a decade (motorway, main railway, intl. airport), perfect natural conditions and decent population density.

[Aquilani]

Originally Posted by Qwert

Krakow is much more famous than Poprad or any other Slovak town, but this isn't about popularity, many sites which hosted WOG were pretty much unknown before.

Yes, it's true that popularity isn't the major factor, but we should remember that many members of Internationial Olympic Committee come from countries which are not interested in winter sports at all ( Africa, South America).It's funny, but when they vote they also choose place for their winter holidays and they are more likely to choose city which is more attractive for them.

Of course lobbing is also incredibly important. For example Poland got EURO 2012 only thanks to Ukraine's influences in UEFA. When we candidate together politicians, ambassadors etc. from both countries can convince much more people. And finally, I think that this kind of cooperation ( the first WOG in history organised in two countries) also makes our candidature stronger.

Sochi got WOG only thanks to money from gas, Putin and his influences. Neither Tusk nor Fico can compare to him in case of clout

About Pyeongchang( it's small town) but during WOG it will be 50 minutes by train from Seul. Anyway, did you see World Cup in South Korea in 2002 ? If yes, you probably know that Koreans are able to do everything ( also cheat ) so as to achieve their aims. Not to mention , Korea is much richer than our countries. They also have much stronger influences in International Olympic Committee. And what is also important they will organise WOG in 2018 - so in year which was reserved for cities outside of Europe and their rivals were from Germany and France. IOC easily didn't have any alternative

All in all, I' m convinced that we don't have another choice than to cooperate. And what is the most important, our authorities finally understood it

[Anuris]

Originally Posted by Aquilani

Sochi got WOG only thanks to money from gas, Putin and his influences. Neither Tusk nor Fico can compare to him in case of clout

Don't you know that Fico is going to be the next President of the European Commission? I'm telling you, WOG 2034 in Slovakia, baby! Oh, yeah!

And our president is going to be the Secretary-General of the United Tumours... I mean Opinions... Tumours... eh, Nations.

[Qwert]

Originally Posted by Aquilani

Yes, it's true that popularity isn't the major factor, but we should remember that many members of Internationial Olympic Committee come from countries which are not interested in winter sports at all ( Africa, South America).It's funny, but when they vote they also choose place for their winter holidays and they are more likely to choose city which is more attractive for them.

Of course lobbing is also incredibly important. For example Poland got EURO 2012 only thanks to Ukraine's influences in UEFA. When we candidate together politicians, ambassadors etc. from both countries can convince much more people. And finally, I think that this kind of cooperation ( the first WOG in history organised in two countries) also makes our candidature stronger.

Sochi got WOG only thanks to money from gas, Putin and his influences. Neither Tusk nor Fico can compare to him in case of clout

About Pyeongchang( it's small town) but during WOG it will be 50 minutes by train from Seul. Anyway, did you see World Cup in South Korea in 2002 ? If yes, you probably know that Koreans are able to do everything ( also cheat ) so as to achieve their aims. Not to mention , Korea is much richer than our countries. They also have much stronger influences in International Olympic Committee. And what is also important they will organise WOG in 2018 - so in year which was reserved for cities outside of Europe and their rivals were from Germany and France. IOC easily didn't have any alternative

All in all, I' m convinced that we don't have another choice than to cooperate. And what is the most important, our authorities finally understood it

Well, it could make our bid stronger, but it could also sink it for good.

Don't take this as an offence, but in the first place it's Poland which doesn't have any choice but to cooperate. I'm not strictly against cooperation, but this cooperation must be fair and it must reflect actual positions of both countries. And the positions are that Slovakia at least theoretically can organize this event alone, Poland cannot. If we look at it from this perspective, than Slovak demand to hold ice hockey tournament is quite natural and appropriate.

I think it would be fair if both countries would pay 50 % of the expenses, both will have 50 % of the sport disciplines and also the name of the event should be Tatry 2022, not Krakow 2022.

BTW, I have explained why our authorities "understand" what you think they understand.

[Aquilani]

Originally Posted by Qwert

I think it would be fair if both countries would pay 50 % of the expenses, both will have 50 % of the sport disciplines and also the name of the event should be Tatry 2022, not Krakow 2022.

I know what you mean.
Our authorities have checked this version ( Tatry 2022) in International Olympic Committee- there is requirement that in the title of WOG must be the name of the city :

So it can be Kraków 2022, Poprad 2022 ,Zakopane 2022 but Tatry 2022 or even Kraków-Tatry 2022 are forbidden.


And something about hockey- Milan Janczuszka - coach of FC Poprad who worked in past in Podhale Nowy Targ says that it would be a good idea to create a common league of Slovak and some best organised clubs from Poland :

Może udałoby się stworzyć ligę polsko-słowacką?

- Wiele się mówiło już na ten temat kilka lat temu, jeszcze wtedy, gdy pracowałem w Podhalu. Myślę, że to tylko kwestia czasu, kiedy taka liga powstanie. Nie wiem, czy będzie ona tylko polsko-słowacka, czy raczej duża liga środkowoeuropejska, z najlepszymi zespołami z Polski, Słowacji, Ukrainy, Moraw, czy Austrii.

Here interview with Milan Janczuszka in Polish :
http://sport.interia.pl/plh/news-jan...ska,nId,718487

[Qwert]

Originally Posted by Aquilani

I know what you mean.
Our authorities have checked this version ( Tatry 2022) in International Olympic Committee- there is requirement that in the title of WOG must be the name of the city :

So it can be Kraków 2022, Poprad 2022 ,Zakopane 2022 but Tatry 2022 or even Kraków-Tatry 2022 are forbidden.

There's a town called Vysoké Tatry in Slovakia, maybe we can rename it into just Tatry on this purpose.

[Kvietok]

Originally Posted by Qwert

Last WOG were awarded to big cities, but before they took place even in villages. Next games should be in Sochi with only 340,000 inh. and in Pyeongchang county with 43,000 inh. You don't really need huge metropolis for WOG, it's not that big event. Krakow is much more famous than Poprad or any other Slovak town, but this isn't about popularity, many sites which hosted WOG were pretty much unknown before.

Although I’m not really convinced this is what Tatras really needs, I agree that there is no need to involve Krakow by any official way. Besides of sport infrastructure there is only accommodation which needs to be handled …

[Anuris]

Originally Posted by Qwert

Last WOG were awarded to big cities, but before they took place even in villages... You don't really need huge metropolis for WOG... Krakow is much more famous than Poprad or any other Slovak town, but this isn't about popularity, many sites which hosted WOG were pretty much unknown before ...in Slovakia it would be possible to concentrate whole event into Tatras and Low Tatras and the valley between them. .

Some examples from more recent history (cited from Wikipedia):

Albertville (pop. 18,480) - Only some of the skating and the opening and closing ceremonies took place in Albertville, while the rest of the events took place in the villages of Courchevel, La Plagne, Les Arcs, Les Menuires, Les Saisies, Méribel, Pralognan-la-Vanoise, Tignes and Val d'Isère.

Lillehamer (pop. 26,639) - While many events took place in Lillehammer, skating took place in Hamar, some ice hockey matches were placed in Gjøvik, while Alpine skiing was held in Øyer and Ringebu.

Salt Lake City (pop. 189,899) – Olympic events took place in and around Salt Lake City.

So Poprad as the official host city (with other venues in Tatras) could be plausible. The only real obstacle is the current weak economic situation of the country and region... which can change in a couple of years... Then there are also some ecological concerns (i.e. whether an event such as the Olympics isn't too big for our "small" Tatras and wouldn't have negative impact on the nature), but I thing that with the right approach, these issues could be handled…

[Qwert]

Originally Posted by Anuris

Some examples from more recent history (cited from Wikipedia):



So Poprad as the official host city (with other venues in Tatras) could be plausible. The only real obstacle is the current weak economic situation of the country and region... which can change in a couple of years... Then there are also some ecological concerns (i.e. whether an event such as the Olympics isn't too big for our "small" Tatras and wouldn't have negative impact on the nature), but I thing that with the right approach, these issues could be handled…

I don't think ecology would be a problem. Not a single venue would be in national park. Tatras will be only scenery somewhere on the horizon.

[peterthegreat]

just to calm down the emotions... here is "the object" we r talking about

Originally Posted by Name user 1

VYSOKE & NIZKE TATRY




VYSOKE TATRY

[E499.3056]

Originally Posted by Aquilani

Może udałoby się stworzyć ligę polsko-słowacką?

- Wiele się mówiło już na ten temat kilka lat temu, jeszcze wtedy, gdy pracowałem w Podhalu. Myślę, że to tylko kwestia czasu, kiedy taka liga powstanie. Nie wiem, czy będzie ona tylko polsko-słowacka, czy raczej duża liga środkowoeuropejska, z najlepszymi zespołami z Polski, Słowacji, Ukrainy, Moraw, czy Austrii.

Here interview with Milan Janczuszka in Polish :
http://sport.interia.pl/plh/news-jan...ska,nId,718487

I think some common ice-hockey or football league would be much better and cheaper solution than organize doubtful and expensive Winter Olympics. Co jest lepsze, pełny stadion cały rok, czy moźe 3 tygodnie mieć dobre imię w świecie?