Gary International--Chicago's 12th airport

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by skyduster

Come on, let's be real. If by "Northern and Northwestern Suburbs" you're talking about the northernmost reaches of McHenry and Lake Counties, then yeah. But if we're talking about northern and northwestern Cook, and even southern Lake, all those folks are far closer to GYY than to Milwaukee.

But again, the point here is that a theoretical 3rd Chicago airport (and please don't say Milwaukee is a Chicago airport)...if the need for a 3rd airport arises...GYY makes more sense than building Peotone.

Realistically, Milwaukee can be reached faster from these places than Gary because of city traffic.

If the choice is "Gary or Peotone for a third Chicago airport" then yeah, sure, Gary is the better choice. But it doesn't work that way. Chicago is now large enough that people on the periphery may indeed find it faster to drive to Milwaukee or Rockford. I don't see a reason why the megaregion of Chicago can't have two large airports and a constellation of smaller ones, like LA.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by ardecila

I don't see a reason why the megaregion of Chicago can't have two large airports and a constellation of smaller ones, like LA.

chicago already has two large airports - ohare and midway

what's being discussed in this thread is whether or not chicago needs a 3rd large airport. and no, MKE will never be a 3rd large chicago airport. it is certainly serving as a reliever airport for the far northern reaches of chicagoland up in lake and mchenry counties, but cook and dupage county people (the VAST bulk of chicagoland people) are not likely to use MKE given the distances involved. peotone also seems like a crap shoot given its distance from the core. the only contender that makes any geographic sense for a 3rd large chicago airport is gary, but it remains to be seen if chicago really needs a 3rd major airport. my hunch is that after ohare modernization is complete, with new terminals and all runways up and running, that need may never materialize.

[skyduster]

Originally Posted by ardecila

I don't see a reason why the megaregion of Chicago can't have two large airports and a constellation of smaller ones, like LA.

I don't really consider Los Angeles a good model on regional development. If anything, it's LA that's making efforts to become more like Chicago, New York, Washington, Boston, even San Francisco, etc, and that's the way it should be, not the other way around.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

chicago already has two large airports - ohare and midway

I know. That's my point. I think Chicago should stay with the two major airports, and then encourage Rockford and Gary to develop into third-tier airports with frequent flights to major hubs only - like Bob Hope or Long Beach. The goal would be that travelers would be willing to change planes at a hub airport if they could get from home to the airport and through security faster than at ORD or MDW.

I like the idea that's been pitched for Peotone to be built as a mainly cargo airport. It wouldn't need the extensive infrastructure of a big passenger airport, but it would still bring industrial development to Will County. The state wouldn't have to waste money on a big, expensive passenger terminal or access roads/transit service.

[Jenner1]

Gary airport news:

http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.net...rticleID=58979

yeah, it's older, but I just found this forum and topic.

[The Urban Politician]

^ Thanks for sharing, and welcome to the forum

[Jenner1]

Discussion regarding GYY on Airliners.net. This is an older posting, but germane to discussion.

[Jenner1]

The Gary/Chicago International Airport Authority on Monday approved a landmark agreement clearing the way for airport expansion.

By a 7-0 vote, the authority board approved a final memorandum of understanding with three railroads encompassing rail projects needed to move tracks that block expansion of its main runway.

http://www.nwitimes.com/business/loc...f3c567f9e.html

[Jenner1]

Landry may become full time director; additional details regarding the railroad moves:

Also at Monday's meeting, Landry and other airport officials assured the authority board that a final memorandum of understanding with railroads approved at its last meeting is the key to breaking ground on airport expansion. That groundbreaking is still slated to happen by July 4.

Railroads Canadian National and CSX Corp. have already signed the agreement, Landry said. Norfolk Southern is expected to sign this week.

Found at:http://www.nwitimes.com/business/loc...829e2f77c.html

[skyduster]

Originally Posted by Jenner1

Discussion regarding GYY on Airliners.net. This is an older posting, but germane to discussion.

Jenner, thanks for posting this link to airliners.net

I read the entire discussion, and it's interesting to hear about GYY from an airliner/flyers' enthusiast perspective, rather than us urban planning enthusiasts. Interesting to note that many of the same opinions were shared. I think that b777fan's assessment pretty much confirms what I've been saying as well:

As far as serving an airline, I think it has quite a few obstacles in its path, many already mentioned. The almost five minute drive around the airport to get to the terminal from the expressway is dismal. The roads are full of potholes, the surroundings are anything but welcoming. It feels third worldish. This was not such a problem via exit 3 to Cline ave as you exited right onto airport drive. With that closed they need to improve the infrastructure before it will be inviting to someone who has never been there before.

And I think as far "finding" demand for the airport, the FAA, as I have mentioned earlier in this thread, predicts that a 3rd Chicago airport will be needed sometime in the future, even with expansion at ORD.

Another interesting thing pointed out by N6238P:

I think what airlines are waiting on is the airport expansion as touched on earlier. The construction is right around the corner and soon a 8,500' + runway will exist. Not only will this open up airline opportunities but it will expand GYY's cargo handling abilities. The airport is always frequented by DC-9's, 727's, Falcon 20's, Convair 5800's, and Shorts 360's filled with onloads and offloads to local factories. Once in a while a DC-8 will make a stop. Fact of the matter is this airport already being a cargo hub for NW Indiana, will turn into an important cargo center for the south Chicagoland area.

The airport authority and city are making pushes to get Industrial highway made into a part of the interstate highway system. Right now the current infrastructure limits an airlines abilities to grow at GYY but with the runway expansion, I'll bet you other facilities will grow as well.

There were also a few alternative (differing) opinions, but I don't think they address the issue of expected demand growth in the coming decades.

The thread on airliners.net is certainly worth a look, and thanks for posting it.

[Jenner1]

Articles relating to moving the railroads at GYY:

http://www.nwitimes.com/business/loc...e2dea2594.html

http://posttrib.suntimes.com/news/91...-railroad.html

It is good to hear that land clearing will start this winter.

[Jenner1]

GYY is going to get airline service once again, from Allegiant. The service will start in 2012.

http://posttrib.suntimes.com/news/93...ary-again.html

http://www.nwitimes.com/business/loc...?mode=comments

[Jenner1]

Gary Airport inks final deal with CN:

http://posttrib.suntimes.com/1153793...ove-ahead.html

[desertpunk]

No pictures?

-Edit: Here's one:


http://www.airport-data.com/airport/photo/004952L.html

[jpIllInoIs]

It will be interesting to see if Rahm keeps up this compact.


NBC News Investigative Report


Just north of the Indiana Toll Road, off Cline Avenue, sits the Gary/Chicago International Airport.

Its name sounds substantial. Its annual budget is in the millions of dollars. And Chicagoans -- along with citizens of Gary -- spend millions in tax dollars every year to help keep it in business.

But in spite of an annual operating budget of more than $3 million -- plus tens of millions more being spent on a runway expansion and other capital projects -- the GCIA terminal sits mostly empty. The front entrance is usually locked; the parking lot is nearly vacant, and the skies are -- for the most part -- empty.

That’s because GCIA has only one passenger flight -- Allegiant Airlines Flight 650. It flies nonstop from Sanford, Fla., to Gary, where passengers unload and new passengers board. Allegiant changes the flight number to 651, and the plane takes off and heads back to Sanford.

It’s time on the ground in Gary: Usually less than one hour.

Once the flight is gone, the terminal is shut down and locked up for several days. The Allegiant flight only comes to Gary twice a week, on Thursdays and Sundays. That’s it.

It’s one of the many curiosities of The Little Airport that Could.

While the airport gets substantial funding from the City of Gary, the State of Indiana and the federal government, it gets additional millions of dollars every year from the City of Chicago -- more than $3.6 million dollars since the beginning of 2011 alone, financial documents reveal. Since 1995, Chicago has sent a total of more than $26 million to help operate the Gary airport.

It all comes from an agreement signed by the cities of Chicago and Gary in 1995, which proposed "the development, enhancement, and operation of existing airports and development of any new Regional Airport serving the Bi-State Region."
Documents


The agreement is commonly referred to as "The Compact," and the two mayors who signed it -- Richard M. Daley of Chicago and Thomas Barnes of Gary -- originally saw it as a fairly straightforward three-year deal. But it continued, and throughout the years it has often been used as a pawn in the political fights for a third airport in Chicago to counter the proposals to build such an airport in Chicago’s 10th Ward, or -- more recently -- in far-south-suburban Peotone.

"The Compact" was also floated as a possible solution to the closing of Meigs, even before Daley ordered his bulldozers out to dig up Meigs’ runways in the middle of the night in March of 2003.

Now -- seventeen years later -- "The Compact" still exists, and the money still flows in from Chicago.

Part of "The Compact" requires Chicago to send monthly checks to the Gary Airport from ticket fees paid by passengers arriving and departing at O’Hare and Midway Airports. Those fees alone amounted to $2.4 million paid to Gary in the past year and a half. This "Passenger Facility Charge" -- or PFC money -- is earmarked for capital projects like Gary’s 1900-foot runway extension, currently under construction, and the relocation of railroad tracks, which must be moved to provide sufficient clearance for larger planes to land on the newly-extended runway.

But on top of the passenger fees, Chicago taxpayers also send money to GCIA, every year, to help with the daily operation of the airport. In the past year and a half, that’s amounted to more than $1.1 million from Chicago taxpayers, over and above the $2.4 million from the ticket fees.

And Gary taxpayers pay millions more, each year, as well.

To date, there hasn’t been much to show for all that money. GCIA has seen commercial service come and go in past years -- notably PanAm, Southeast, and Hooters Air. There have been long periods where no passenger planes landed there. Even Allegiant, with its one flight twice a week, is technically not a commercial flight, but a travel service which operates charter flights to smaller-traffic airports. It just started flying in to Gary last February.

The flight itself appears to be a success, with low-cost tickets and easy online booking that regularly attracts a full load of passengers. But the question remains: Is all this tax money worth it, for just two passenger flights a week?

...................

In an effort to see what happens during a typical day at the terminal, NBC Chicago went to the Gary/Chicago International Airport on a Wednesday. There was not an Allegiant flight scheduled for that day, but the thought was that maybe the terminal would be open for other operations.

That was not the case. The front doors were locked and the place was deserted.

So NBC Chicago returned, unannounced, at noon on a Thursday, when Allegiant does fly in. This time the front door was unlocked, but inside the airport was still virtually empty, with the lights turned off, the ticket counter dark and the baggage carousel silent and still.

A plaque on the wall noted that the terminal was renovated a decade ago. It still looks good as new.

The only people there were a security guard and approximately 15 TSA agents. Their supervisor said they are routinely borrowed from other airports -- South Bend and Chicago -- to come to GCIA twice a week to handle the Allegiant flight.

.......................

Statement from Chicago's Department of Aviation:

The City of Chicago continues to support the Compact as Gary Airport serves as a reliever airport in the regional Chicago airport system. The City recognizes that these are times of tight budgets and has reduced the annual contribution to the Chicago Gary Regional Airport Authority.

Takeoffs/Landings for area airports from Jan. 1 - Aug. 1, 2012:

Unit 5 looked at the daily air traffic -- including every takeoff and landing of passenger, private, and corporate aircraft -- at Gary/Chicago International Airport, and compared its traffic to that at other comparable airports in the Chicago/Northwest Indiana area. In our survey of various time periods covering 2012, we found that Gary (GYY) had less daily traffic than Waukegan Regional Airport (UGN), Dupage Airport in West Chicago (DPA), Chicago Executive Airport in Wheeling (PWK), and Chicago Rockford Airport in Rockford (RFD).

In this chart, every takeoff or landing is counted separately. For example, if a plane lands at an airport, and then takes off two hours later, it would count twice on this chart.

One significant exception was August 2012, when GCIA served as the staging area for aircraft used in the Chicago Air and Water Show.

Source: http://www.nbcchicago.com/investigat...#ixzz2AdUQMXRt

[The Urban Politician]

^ The lack of interest in serving this airport is exactly why Peotone is such a brain-dead idea.

[skyduster]

But again, as discussed earlier, it begs the question: why is there a lack of interest in serving the airport? Even if demand were to rise significantly for flying into/out of Chicago, GYY is a pathetic airport, with a pathetic terminal, no transit connection... I'm all for an inquiry on where all that money's going, but we can't conclude that there's no interest in serving the airport when it isn't a proper airport to begin with.