Election 2012

[mSeattle]

Don't forget the Asian/African/Eastern European immigrant populations, where homophobia or better "hetero-supremacy" was part of the society.
I wonder how different Rainier Valley was from say White Center or Lake City?

[bgwah]

Originally Posted by D Green

99% of every argument against gay marriage is religious in nature, so I'm not sure where you got the racial and income part.

Like I mentioned before, morally-conservative areas (predominantly Middle-Eastern, African American, and Mormon areas) are going to vote more conservative when it comes to particular social issues.

Medina/Clyde Hill has a strong Anglican/Episcopalian following, which if you've read the news has a strong pro-LGBT position. The second strongest influence in Clyde Hill is the Sacred Heart (Catholic) Church, which might not recognize that particular issue in their doctrine but whose members are socially-open to it.

I don't even know where to start with this post, but I'll try.

First - you say you're not sure where I got race. Then in your next sentence you list "African American" areas as being more conservative on social issues... So within two neighboring sentences you basically oppose and then take my position. Religion and race/ethnicity will have a lot of overlap. I thought that much was obvious.

Second, you mention predominately Middle-Eastern (another ethnic group?) and Mormon areas. Where are these in Seattle, or even King County? I would hardly consider any neighborhoods to be Middle-Eastern or Mormon. Perhaps there are some areas with significant Muslim populations (of East African origin), but I doubt they make anywhere near even half their neighborhood's voters.

Third - your comments on religion in Medina/Clyde Hill. You're again taking two opposite positions. Religion matters, except when it doesn't. And how are you determining influence, anyway? Did you just Google "churches in medina" or what? How do you know where they draw their congregants from? Perhaps they draw from a much larger geographic area. The census does not ask religion. It does, however, ask race and income questions.

[D Green]

Well, here's my point, it's not because of their skin color or their income that they vote a particular way on this social issue. It's their religious understanding. Likewise, being Arabic and being Muslim are not the same thing necessarily, just saying that being Muslim is a religious, not an ethnic, designation. Otherwise, the whole race and income argument becomes a contradiction when we know that it's not only particular racial and income bracket people who vote particular ways. It's not about Google maps either. People naturally have a "comfort zone" in which they attend church, shop groceries, go to school, etc. within 5-10 miles of their home. Would you rather I agree with you and say, "rich white people vote smarter than poor, non-white people?" Because that's what you sound like you're arguing right now.

That's all I have to say. Thanks.

[bgwah]

Originally Posted by D Green

Well, here's my point, it's not because of their skin color or their income that they vote a particular way on this social issue. It's their religious understanding. Likewise, being Arabic and being Muslim are not the same thing necessarily, just saying that being Muslim is a religious, not an ethnic, designation. Otherwise, the whole race and income argument becomes a contradiction when we know that it's not only particular racial and income bracket people who vote particular ways. It's not about Google maps either. People naturally have a "comfort zone" in which they attend church, shop groceries, go to school, etc. within 5-10 miles of their home. Would you rather I agree with you and say, "rich white people vote smarter than poor, non-white people?" Because that's what you sound like you're arguing right now.

That's all I have to say. Thanks.

When did I say anything about rich white people being smarter? I said nothing of the sort. It is your own nonsense interpretation with no basis in reality, just like your interpretation of the election results.

[D Green]

It's a modifier, not a noun. I think it's best to either keep this a respectful disagreement or drop it.

[bgwah]

Originally Posted by D Green

It's a modifier, not a noun. I think it's best to either keep this a respectful disagreement or drop it.

Losing an argument and resorting to basically calling me a racist is hardly respectful. Get off your high horse.

[D Green]

It looks more like a tense stalemate than a win/loss for either. Let's take a different approach here. Can you please restate your main argument in one neat sentence that clarifies your position?

[D Green]

Alright, I'll just clarify this and be done with it:

Here's my beef. Here was your original thesis that I was responding to:

Originally Posted by bgwah

Gay marriage follows racial and income patterns

It's ambiguous. Anyone can easily interpret this to say "it's a racial and salary issue." What we need is a working thesis here: what do you mean by "racial" or "income" patterns? How does it explain the white redneck and the urban middle-aged African American voting patterns on this particular issue? How does this argue successfully for the older, more conservative, voters versus the younger, more supportive, voters in places like Rainier Valley? How does it rectify rich or poor people who voted entirely on party lines?

Which leads to my original explanation, which was a thesis based off of a particular definition of "religion," simply meaning a system with a set of beliefs, regardless of whether they are right or wrong. People who voted "no" simply held different beliefs on this topic than people who voted "yes."

[Seasun]

I just heard an audio clip of Obama on an upcoming interview (ABC News, Babwa Walters I believe) where he said the feds shouldn't be going after pot smokers in WA and CO. We're going to have to secure the borders between same sex marriage and now this to manage our population. All the apartments being built might actually have tenants!

Here it is: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/...3#.UMtHUh070lo

[RMacherat]

I wonder what his class was like. Just sayin ..