BIRMINGHAM - Villa Park (42,785)

[flierfy]

Originally Posted by Harry1990

Wembley should only be for the final only, the fa make enough money as it is should have kept the traditions of the cup but suppose every thing changes

It isn't just about making money. It is also about providing capacity for high profile games with tremendous demand for tickets. And Villa Park falls just short of that.

And as for tradition all games of the FA Cup used to be played in London in the early years. Playing the final two rounds at Wembley re-establishes this tradition at least partly.

[Harry1990]

get what you mean but you must concede that there is a differance between say a Spurs vs Chelsea or Arsenal Semi final and say Barnsley vs Coventry City semi final for instance, and surely its absurd if Man City vs Liverpool etc they have to travel to london when there is a whole load of large stadiums in the north that could host the game

it also makes the Final that much more sweet for the teams that get there

[RMB2007]

You do realise that the FA currently has to subsidise Wembley? The FA needs Wembley to host as many events as it can in order to to pay off the stadium's debt, and hosting two semi-finals is one way that will help them do that. Basically, the semi-finals at Wembely are here to stay, no matter who's competing in them.

[flierfy]

Originally Posted by Harry1990

get what you mean but you must concede that there is a differance between say a Spurs vs Chelsea or Arsenal Semi final and say Barnsley vs Coventry City semi final for instance, and surely its absurd if Man City vs Liverpool etc they have to travel to london when there is a whole load of large stadiums in the north that could host the game

it also makes the Final that much more sweet for the teams that get there

Is see the difference. The chance for a semi-final involving two of Spurs, Chelsea or Arsenal, however, is vastly bigger than Barnsley vs Coventry or any other pairing of similar northern clubs. In fact there were just 5 all-northern semi-finals in the last twelve years, but 6 all-southern matches.

The north of England itself isn't that well equipped with big grounds as it used to be in the pre-Taylor era. There is Old Trafford which is really big. And then there are the Eastlands, St James' Park and the Stadium of Light which are fairly big. The latter two, however, are geographically isolated and therefore impractical. That reduces the number of big grounds to two. In case of a Manchester derby the options look pretty bleak.

Before a return of the FA Cup semi-finals to neutral club grounds is even thinkable there need to be more big club grounds (and Wembley need to be paid off). Spurs and Chelsea have to catch up ground-wise with Arsenal to form a big-ground-triangle in London. And there need to be at least three 50'000+ seater in the north as well. We're a long way off this route I reckon.

[topalex]

I think you need to look at who the tickets go to as well.
Wembley holds 90,000 but even the biggest clubs only get allocated around 25k each. Thats 40k prawn sarnie munching part timers and corporates.

Yeah thats where they make their money I realise that. However the real fans are getting hardly any more tickets than they would have if the semi final was being played at Villa Park or Elland Rd!

I'd much rather see Villa park packed to bursting point with fans of any 2 clubs of your choice for a semi final than use Wembley.

Ok Im basing this opinion on my love of football and not on economics..yes there are still a few of us left you know! so I appreciate that Wembley means more dosh in the coffers and more fans getting the chance to see their team play but do you think many would complain if you crammed 43k into VP?

[Harry1990]

i know why the FA host the Semis now, cause they went stupidly over budget for Wembley, i just loved the old tradition of the semi being in neutral venues but maybe the cup just isnt that important anymore, shame really but i suppose things move on.

dont think it will be too much longer until both the north and the south (basically london) has 3 or more stadiums over 60k

North- OT (poss Expansion), New Anfield or redevolped anfield, St James Park most likely to be expanded to over 60k

South- Arsenal already 60k plus, NDP, Chelsea redovolpment or new build, Olypic stadium

you could also add Villa Park Expansion, Stadium of light and a new everton stadium if they ever build one, they would probably be over 50000 by the time wembleys debt is paid off

[timo9]

[www.sercan.de]

Villa Park 1907

[Laurence2011]

wow, is there any of the stadium there still remaining?
also notice that football hadn't invented the "D" on the penalty box yet then

[flierfy]

Originally Posted by Laurence2011

wow, is there any of the stadium there still remaining?

The pitch, probably.

[carlspannoosh]

Great stadium and as others have said it should still be an FA Cup semi final stadium.
The FA Cup has truly lost a lot of its flavour over the years and Wembley semis have contributed to its gradual demise. It is no longer a significant or exciting event in the football calendar.
Maybe its going to take a few half empty semis for the FA to finally get it.

[MS20]

Originally Posted by carlspannoosh

Great stadium and as others have said it should still be an FA Cup semi final stadium.
The FA Cup has truly lost a lot of its flavour over the years and Wembley semis have contributed to its gradual demise. It is no longer a significant or exciting event in the football calendar.
Maybe its going to take a few half empty semis for the FA to finally get it.

For the FA to get what? That hosting at Villa Park gives Villa majority of revenue from the matches? Or that hosting at Wembley allows them to keep proceeds from semis all to themselves? Not much to get. There will never be an FA Cup semi final at Wembley that draws below 50,000, which makes any consideration of Villa Park even more redundant. Half empty or not, Wembley makes all the sense, while Villa Park makes none.

[carlspannoosh]

Originally Posted by MS20

For the FA to get what? That hosting at Villa Park gives Villa majority of revenue from the matches? Or that hosting at Wembley allows them to keep proceeds from semis all to themselves? Not much to get. There will never be an FA Cup semi final at Wembley that draws below 50,000, which makes any consideration of Villa Park even more redundant. Half empty or not, Wembley makes all the sense, while Villa Park makes none.

The FA Cup will be ever more marginalised as it becomes less significant to the people who buy tickets for the games. You may well believe that there will never be less than 50k at Wembley for semis but I believe there will eventually be (if there isnt already) a much bigger than 50k drop year on year in total attendances for the FA Cup. So basically the FA will continue to take a bigger share of the revenue for a competition that is losing more of its money generating power every year at least partly because of its short term requirements. Great.


I also notice that no one has mentioned the now very underused Milllennium Stadium with a capacity of over 70 thousand as another suitable semi final venue. Anyhow.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...Cup-round.html

[Harry1990]

to make the FA Cup back to its former glory they should do somethings to modernise or bring interest back, some suggestions

1. The Winner qualifies for the knockout round of the champions league, in the event of the Winner having qualified through league placing already would drop down to 4th place in the table. controversial but would really make the FA Cup as good as winning the title like it was 25/30 years ago would give more for every team be they a team competing for the title/top 4/mid table and even lower league teams.

2. would be to take out replays as there are far two many games being played now, and with the importance of league placing and the money riding on each position on the premier league, a shot at the champions league would persuade alot more teams to try and win. people would say that would give away funding to a non league/lower league team that draws say mancester united but im sure common sense could be used for example if a lower league team is drawn away to big prem team they could give them a larger percantage of money, or give them the money for selling out the away end for example.

i do think the FA cup is still a decent cup to win, and you only have to look at the winners of the last 20 years to see that, apart from Portsmouth most have them have been won by England's 3 biggest club and then loads by a Russians play thing

[MS20]

Originally Posted by carlspannoosh

The FA Cup will be ever more marginalised as it becomes less significant to the people who buy tickets for the games. You may well believe that there will never be less than 50k at Wembley for semis but I believe there will eventually be (if there isnt already) a much bigger than 50k drop year on year in total attendances for the FA Cup. So basically the FA will continue to take a bigger share of the revenue for a competition that is losing more of its money generating power every year at least partly because of its short term requirements. Great.


I also notice that no one has mentioned the now very underused Milllennium Stadium with a capacity of over 70 thousand as another suitable semi final venue. Anyhow.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...Cup-round.html

The relevance of the FA Cup has very little to do with where the semi finals are hosted. And last season saw attendances of 85,000 and 87,000. The Villa Park argument doesnt hold up. The relevance of the cup, which is what you seem to be hinting at, is a different debate altogether.

[carlspannoosh]

Originally Posted by Harry1990

to make the FA Cup back to its former glory they should do somethings to modernise or bring interest back, some suggestions

1. The Winner qualifies for the knockout round of the champions league, in the event of the Winner having qualified through league placing already would drop down to 4th place in the table. controversial but would really make the FA Cup as good as winning the title like it was 25/30 years ago would give more for every team be they a team competing for the title/top 4/mid table and even lower league teams.

2. would be to take out replays as there are far two many games being played now, and with the importance of league placing and the money riding on each position on the premier league, a shot at the champions league would persuade alot more teams to try and win. people would say that would give away funding to a non league/lower league team that draws say mancester united but im sure common sense could be used for example if a lower league team is drawn away to big prem team they could give them a larger percantage of money, or give them the money for selling out the away end for example.

i do think the FA cup is still a decent cup to win, and you only have to look at the winners of the last 20 years to see that, apart from Portsmouth most have them have been won by England's 3 biggest club and then loads by a Russians play thing

My suggestions would be a bit more straight forward. Given that FA Cup winners will not receive a Champions League place I would leave replays as they are, scrap the League Cup and bring back traditions that were popular and actually made the competition more enjoyable ie neutral venues like Villa Park for semi finals and no more evening kick offs for the final.

Won't happen though of course.

[Harry1990]

dont think they will do any of these football sold its sole years ago, thats why they want a 62 team "champions" league, would love a bit of common sense, for example london teams get to the semis play in wembley but if its everton vs liverpool why travel to london when they is cardiff or Old Trafford within easier distance

and any news on Villa Park expansion to just of 50k or is that dead in the water

[MS20]

Originally Posted by Harry1990

and any news on Villa Park expansion to just of 50k or is that dead in the water

They very rarely sell out these days, so its probably not a short term aim.

[C F Looprevil]

Originally Posted by www.sercan.de

Villa Park 1907

There is a picture from roughly the same angle taken a few years later after the track has gone and it's been squared off. The Holte end on the later picture looks very impressive. I'll see if I can find it and post it on here.

[RMB2007]