Do you think Chicago will still be segregated in 20-30 years from now?

[ducus]

Do you think Chicago will still be segregated in 20-30 years from now? Or things will begin to change little by little? Will we ever see the south more developed and gentrified or it will remain forever poor and ghettoed and bad looking, lie after a war?
I'm trying to undestand why of the three big cities (NYC, chicago and LA), only Chicago has becomed racially segregated? What caused this? How things got so bad that more than haf a city is ghettoed and in ruin, looking like a city from a century ago?
Why all the mayors of Chicago didn't put atention on the south side also, and the investors as well, to develop it like the north side?
An immigrant who wants to move in Chicago is advised to especially avoid the southern and western side, because of the blacks and violence in there, altough the rent is cheaper.

[QuantumX]

I can't speak to this directly because I don't live in Chicago, but I was there for the first time twice earlier this year and even though I'm black, I never got the feeling downtown that I was treated differently from anybody else. In fact, I met a lot of nice people and had a lot of nice conversations with people, so I'm not sure if you're asking the right question. I don't think there is really anything stopping anybody from bettering themselves and getting a nice condo downtown. People live where they live based on what they can afford.

[urbanpln]

Most cities in this country are segregated, especially those with large black populations. Although Chicago is probably the most segregated among cities with population over 1 million, its north lakefront communities are very diverse racially. If you ride the CTA's redline on any day or weekend night you will experience the rich diversity that exist in this city but, there are still too many areas in this city that is very segregated by race and income. It is is breaking down slowly but, not fast enough.

Will it change in 20-30 years? I believe there are few important factors that would have a significant impact on breaking up the hyper-segregation that exist. Improving the city's economic strength, improving schools and significantly decreasing the homicide rate. These issues have been around for decades and have really held the city back imo.

[QuantumX]

I was wondering if anybody from Chicago was ever going to say anything. That first post hung out there for a while before I decided to say something. I haven't lived in a so-called black neighborhood since I left home at the age of 18, but a lot of people simply feel more comfortable living around the culture they grew up with and what they're used to. I'm not saying that Chicago doesn't have problems, but I don't think the problems are as big as you might think when people segregate themselves. Yes, the educational system most definitely needs to work better and I think that would make a big difference as far as people from different cultures not segregating themselves.

[urbanpln]

I am also an african america man who did not grow up in Chicago. I moved here in 1990, got married and moved into a racially diverse community. That was one of the best decisions I've ever made. It shielded me and my family from the total biases that exist on both sides of the racial division that exist in this city and, lead to me venturing out into all parts of the city for culture and entertainment. So far I have not experienced anything that has angered me enough to take action against someone of another race.

I realized that while many whites are as racist as I expected (there quite a few), there are also many that try very hard to be open minded. My experience living here has also help me to realized that the city is not as bad as the natives see it. I'm not saying that Chicago does not have its problems or that the racial divisions that existed in the past were not horrible. History shows that it is a fact but, most other american cities that have large black populations experienced the similar problems, especially in the Midwest and Northeast. These regions experienced rapid growth in black population almost over night. This growth put blacks in direct competition with ethic whites in the job market. That is a recipe for turbulence among different races and groups.

There are certainly large areas of the city that are all black and very poor or all hispanic. There used to be areas that were all ethic white and working class. Those are the areas that are rapidly eroding. Hispanics are moving into those areas right up against and even trickling into the black neighborhoods. Middle cl[U]ass blacks are also fleeing the city going to historically white or more diverse suburbs. Many younger professional blacks are moving into Bronzeville and the South Loop. Both of these neighborhoods are diverse although the South Loop is much more diverse (asian, whites, blacks, some hispanics and by age). This change is causing major problems for the city but also presents future opportunity.

Most blacks who grew up on the south and west sides, especially those of a certain age, will not venture north for a night out on the north side. This is not unique to Chicago but it's noticeable. This exist in most cities throughout the country and even the world. One good sign is that younger kids of many races are hanging out downtown because the big regional malls on the south side have gotten stale. There have been some problems at times with flash mobs but, I am confident that this could be a good thing for race relations in the long run if the city does not over react and continue keeping the area safe with a strong police presence.

[QuantumX]

Well, I actually grew up under real segregation 50 years ago, so when someone starts a thread titled "Do you think Chicago will still be segregated 20-30 years from now?" it makes me wonder what the hell they're talking about. If we more gentrify the south side of Chicago, won't property values go up thus making it less afforable to poor people? We can go on and on about the educational system. I've already said enough about that on other threads, but in this day and age, nothing is stopping anybody from bettering themselves and moving to the north side of Chicago as far as I've been able to ascertain.

[ducus]

But the segregation exist and can be seen from the space, even you don't admit! What i'm, trying to understand why Chicago got in this situation
If the Detroit case explains trough the auto industry left and the city was always a monoindustrial, that isn't the case of Windy City, and still half of the city looks creepy!
Denying the poverty, the empty spaces there, the closed business, is like denying the favelas of Rio were existing!
The phenomenon is even more surprizing in the richest country on the earth, the country of all posibilities!
In Romania not even the poorest village or formely industrialized city looks like Filthadelphia or Detroit or South Chicago! And we're speaking of one of the most poor countries in European Union, a former commie country who once had an industry and was the barn of the Europe!

[QuantumX]

Originally Posted by ducus

But the segregation exist and can be seen from the space, even you don't admit! What i'm, trying to understand why Chicago got in this situation

I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying or reading it right. I'm not saying that segregation as you understand it doesn't exist, but I think much of what you are saying is segregration is really just separation. As I've said, I have lived under real segregation where there were laws that said you can't go here or you can't go there because you are black. I think the south side of Chicago may be the way it is because that is the way it used to be half a century ago, but there is no real segregation now that is stopping people from moving into better neighborhoods once they better themselves.

Originally Posted by ducus

Denying the poverty, the empty spaces there, the closed business, is like denying the favelas of Rio were existing!
The phenomenon is even more surprizing in the richest country on the earth, the country of all posibilities!

And here in the 21st century in this country, people can get up off their asses and do something. I think the key is in better education. We've got to get that ghetto mentality out of people. Cut the bullshit about it being their culture. It's not!

[untitledreality]

Originally Posted by ducus

Do you think Chicago will still be segregated in 20-30 years from now? Or things will begin to change little by little? Will we ever see the south more developed and gentrified or it will remain forever poor and ghettoed and bad looking, lie after a war?

There will always be segregation, it is a natural way of life. For thousands of years people have tended to stay close to those who have similar cultural backgrounds. But what I imagine you are trying to ask, is if Chicago will still be as economically segregated in twenty to thirty years time. The only way to fix this issue is to fix the root of the problem... education. Education alters culture, it offers opportunities, it enlightens, it tempers. Get a grip on public education while tightening the grip on city wide crime and you could see areas pull themselves up from the ashes.

The answer is not to shift around the uneducated poor, forever carrying them on societies shoulders, but to enable them.

[Northsider]

Originally Posted by ducus

But the segregation exist and can be seen from the space, even you don't admit! What i'm, trying to understand why Chicago got in this situation

Dude, people get Ph.D.s in this sort of stuff. There's really no single answer, nor any one single solution. I certainly don't expect you to find the answer on a web forum.

Chicago's history has a LOT to do with it. Southern migration and the simple ethnic layouts of neighborhoods. Job locations. Redlining. Poverty. Why do we not care when cities are segregated by Irish and Italian lines, but we do when it's Mexican or Black lines? People live with people they are culturally the closest to. It's just human nature. I know wealthy corporate types that still live in Englewood simply to be a part of the community, close to family, and close to people they share culture with. There's nothing wrong with it.

However, your question actually sounds like: Why does Chicago have such a worse ghetto than other cities? Aka: crime and poverty. Lack of jobs, lack of upward mobility, lack of community leadership (historically, thank the Vietnam War for that), gang violence, drug violence, zero tax base...the list goes on and on...

Questions like these are just so heavy handed, it's impossible to answer or solve. Questions like "Why did Chicago have such a murderous year?". Well, the weather, gangs, drugs, poverty, the recession, gas prices...who the hell knows. It has nothing to do with gun control. The mayor isn't going to solve it. Church leaders aren't going to solve it. The police aren't going to solve it. It's taken 50+ years of institutionalized racism and discrimination to get into this mess, it's not going to be solved in a year, or even a decade, or by good intentions. It takes time.

Why does Chicago have this problem and not NYC or LA? Chicago lost a lot of industry, it lost a lot of people, most of Chicago wealth in neighborhoods is in the form of TIFs which really don't affect poor communities. NYC and LA don't have the sort of gangland stranglehold and political corruption at the scale Chicago does. Chicago's education system is completely fucked and only benefits those with money.

So you see, it's VERY complex. So in 20-30 years? Yes, I imagine Chicago will be segregated, considering it's been segregated (as have all other cities) since its beginning. Will it be Black/White segregation? Will it be poor/rich segregation? Will it be some other ethnic minority? Who knows...

[GenericUser]

Originally Posted by urbanpln

I realized that while many whites are as racist as I expected

Edit: Disregard that. Not in the mood to get into a heated debate.

You can't delete messages on this forum? :S

[ducus]

Originally Posted by Northsider

Why does Chicago have this problem and not NYC or LA? Chicago lost a lot of industry, it lost a lot of people, most of Chicago wealth in neighborhoods is in the form of TIFs which really don't affect poor communities. NYC and LA don't have the sort of gangland stranglehold and political corruption at the scale Chicago does. Chicago's education system is completely fucked and only benefits those with money.

So you see, it's VERY complex. So in 20-30 years? Yes, I imagine Chicago will be segregated, considering it's been segregated (as have all other cities) since its beginning. Will it be Black/White segregation? Will it be poor/rich segregation? Will it be some other ethnic minority? Who knows...

I'm more upseth for the fact that south and west of the city look like after the war, arsoned building, deserted, lack of businesses, lack of flourish like the north etc. I mean it's obvious even from the space, and it's not even amalgamated, the line of demarcation between normality and poverty is so sudden that amazes you!
Much of publication analyzed after the 2010 census that Milwaukee is the most segregated city in America, but i'd say Chicago is! The large segragation area from Chicago doesn't even compare with the little black segregated area of Milwaukee!
You say it requires time to solve the problem, agree on that, but why couldn't the problem be solved by the ex-mayors like Giuliani did with the South Bronx in the '90s? Political will and concern, that's what it's need for solving the segregation! Poor doesn't have any power, but the governments and investors!

[Northsider]

I mean it's obvious even from the space

lol, no need for hyperbole.

Much of publication analyzed after the 2010 census that Milwaukee is the most segregated city in America, but i'd say Chicago is!

Is it really a contest?

You say it requires time to solve the problem, agree on that, but why couldn't the problem be solved by the ex-mayors like Giuliani did with the South Bronx in the '90s?

I'm not familiar with what he did there, but all I can say is: different city, different problems. As I mentioned, NYC doesn't have the gang penetration and political corruption at the scale Chicago does, among other things. There've been tons of initiatives to eradicate gangs, guns, and drugs. They work...for a time. Then they just move to a different area. It's not going to be solved with police action. The only quick "solution" would be to displace the residents (indeed, what's happening in many neighborhoods through gentrification: Logan Square, Pilsen, West Loop, South Loop, Uptown) into other areas of the city and suburbs. In that sense, Chicago has made huge progress.

the line of demarcation between normality and poverty is so sudden that amazes you!

See my comments about TIFs. There's simply no money going into these neighborhoods, it's that simple. Why spend money on neighborhoods that will in turn provide very little back to the city via taxes, etc?

[Matt.Altstiel.]

All people have a certain level of racism or prejudice. In many cases, we only see it when it's right at the surface. I worked in a predominantly black community (Maywood), and a majority Hispanic community (Little Village). I can say that racism and prejudice aren't unique to white people (@urbanpln). I formed a lot of great relationships and didn't feel any of it directed towards me, but each group certainly made sweeping generalizations of other populations.

To answer the question, I'll give the short answer, yes. There will always be segregation based on class. It's not uniquely a Chicago thing, in general, rich people don't like living right next to poor folks. As long as the class structure is also racially stratified, then we can say that racial segregation will exist. If you look at the suburbs, they have greatly increased their diversity. As long as massive sections of the city continue to gentrify, there will be a wave of poor Chicagoans relocating to the suburbs or further from the lake. We see this as the Hispanic population pushes further South and West as Pilsen intensifies its gentrification.

Many people in Maywood relocated after being priced out from Edgewater and Uptown. More came once Cabrini Green was leveled. I think what we are going to see is that historically working class suburbs will take on characteristics associated with low-income city neighborhoods. Suburbs will be the next level of segregation while the city becomes wealthier .

[QuantumX]

Originally Posted by Matt.Altstiel.

All people have a certain level of racism or prejudice.

This is all too true and it is something we all have to guard against.

[1772]

Originally Posted by ducus

But the segregation exist and can be seen from the space, even you don't admit! What i'm, trying to understand why Chicago got in this situation
If the Detroit case explains trough the auto industry left and the city was always a monoindustrial, that isn't the case of Windy City, and still half of the city looks creepy!...

Try "democratic leadership since the 60s"

[HomrQT]

Originally Posted by 1772

Try "democratic leadership since the 60s"

Right on the nose. I say this as neither a republican nor democrat btw.