When will Miami start double deckering its expressways?

[CalleOchoGringo]

I'd like to start by saying that I would much rather see money go to Metrorail or light rail (as if you guys hadn't heard all my rants before). But since we all know the FDOT/MDX/whoever would sooner start taking crack (or maybe I should say 'stop' taking it) before they spend transportation money in this town on something so sensible and logical. It leaves me with this question:

When will Miami start double deckering its expressways? Most other large cities with our density already have. And it's clear that some of our roads are build out all the way to their lateral capacity, with urban build close on either side.

We should start with 836 (a road named after the number of minutes your commute to work will be if you use it on a weekday). Then maybe the palmetto (a very creatively built parking lot that snakes through several Miami neighborhoods and is built to resemble a freeway). Also, are they ever planning on connecting Gratiny to something? East to I-95 maybe? South to the airport end of 112? Do they really think all those Gratiny users are trying to get to MDC north campus or something?

I know, I know... making too much sense again, just keep me away from south Florida politics. god forbid I get in office and do something logical and reasonable with public funds.

[miami1]

Miami should demolish all expressways and replace them with Metrorail lines!!

[yatesrinaldo1]

wasn't there are huge crowd at Michigan St

[theEmbarcadero]

Originally Posted by miami1

Miami should demolish all expressways and replace them with Metrorail lines!!

what he said

[ThatFloridaDude]

Originally Posted by miami1

Miami should demolish all expressways and replace them with Metrorail lines!!

All expressways? Well not a bad idea, although I'd start off with one. Seeing how it goes. Miami definately doesn't need light rail though.

[CF221]

Most people advocate for all types of transportation, especially high-quality such as streetcars, light rail or subways. What's wrong with light rail?

[ftlauddude]

Originally Posted by miami1

Miami should demolish all expressways and replace them with Metrorail lines!!

Do we have the demand for hundreds and hundreds of rail lines? No we don't. We're not as dense and the current patter of "densification" is not fast enough to require huge mass transit changes besides the ones we have planned for the next 5 years. "We ain't NY, ya know".

Originally Posted by CalleOchoGringo

We should start with 836 (a road named after the number of minutes your commute to work will be if you use it on a weekday). Then maybe the palmetto (a very creatively built parking lot that snakes through several Miami neighborhoods and is built to resemble a freeway). Also, are they ever planning on connecting Gratiny to something? East to I-95 maybe? South to the airport end of 112? Do they really think all those Gratiny users are trying to get to MDC north campus or something?

Once that interchange is done (SR826/SR836) traffic will be much better on SR836. After that, the ORT (Open Road Tolling) is coming to the east side of SR836 and SR112 which will also improve traffic. Then e-826 is coming too to add express lanes to SR-826. It'll be a totally driving experience after those project are done.

With regards to SR924 (Gratigny) is currently connected to I-75 and SR826 (something); and is in the plans to be connected to I-95 and the 'Pike; so stay tuned!

Now, it'll be ideal to have other options of transportation for west and south Miami-Dade; unfortunately, the numbers don't add up for the option (metrorail) you're longing. I think Tri-Rail should be extended to west Miami-Dade via RR tracks parallel to SR-826 'cause the traffic pattern is similar to those on I-95 (commuters during rush/peak hours); however, there's no consensus for that option.

[CalleOchoGringo]

Originally Posted by ftlauddude

Once that interchange is done (SR826/SR836) traffic will be much better on SR836.

I wish I could share your optimism, but I fail to see this. Most of that road's traffic problems are east of that interchange. In fact allowing more capacity of cars coming from Palmetto (either North or South) to be dumped onto 836 Eastbound in the morning (to downtown) will probably have the opposite effect, it will make the traffic worse not better.


On the good note, if I'm right then people in Kendall/Miami Lakes will be screaming for metrorail after a year of that.

[brickell]

Originally Posted by CalleOchoGringo

On the good note, if I'm right then people in Kendall/Miami Lakes will be screaming for metrorail after a year of that.

Yes, they all want metrorail, just so long as it goes nowhere near their neighborhood.

[CF221]

Originally Posted by ftlauddude

Do we have the demand for hundreds and hundreds of rail lines? No we don't. We're not as dense and the current patter of "densification" is not fast enough to require huge mass transit changes besides the ones we have planned for the next 5 years. "We ain't NY, ya know".



Once that interchange is done (SR826/SR836) traffic will be much better on SR836. After that, the ORT (Open Road Tolling) is coming to the east side of SR836 and SR112 which will also improve traffic. Then e-826 is coming too to add express lanes to SR-826. It'll be a totally driving experience after those project are done.
With regards to SR924 (Gratigny) is currently connected to I-75 and SR826 (something); and is in the plans to be connected to I-95 and the 'Pike; so stay tuned!

Now, it'll be ideal to have other options of transportation for west and south Miami-Dade; unfortunately, the numbers don't add up for the option (metrorail) you're longing. I think Tri-Rail should be extended to west Miami-Dade via RR tracks parallel to SR-826 'cause the traffic pattern is similar to those on I-95 (commuters during rush/peak hours); however, there's no consensus for that option.

It's kind of funny. Following the phenomenom of "induced demand," opening more lanes, widening expressways, and doing anything else that would facilitate traffic will induce..... traffic.

However, when you speak about the transportation options of west and south Miami-Dade, you already start speaking about the numbers being too low for them to be viable. Granted, we already have gone through the horrible experience of seeing a metrorail line being built in places where almost nobody goes, that cuts through areas of warehouses and whatever industry is left in Hialeah: not the best planning. This has clearly affected ridership numbers. On the other hand, West and South Miami Dade are far more residential and especially SW Miami is very dense. This merits some kind of transportation system other than buses that has not been implemented.

While the county or its agencies expand its highways and add more lanes for cars, the only excuse they have for public transportation is very similar to yours in that "the numbers don't add up." I say, with a little bit better planning, they might come up with a solution that actually works following the principle of "induced demand."

[ftlauddude]

Originally Posted by CF221

It's kind of funny. Following the phenomenom of "induced demand," opening more lanes, widening expressways, and doing anything else that would facilitate traffic will induce..... traffic.

However, when you speak about the transportation options of west and south Miami-Dade, you already start speaking about the numbers being too low for them to be viable. Granted, we already have gone through the horrible experience of seeing a metrorail line being built in places where almost nobody goes, that cuts through areas of warehouses and whatever industry is left in Hialeah: not the best planning. This has clearly affected ridership numbers. On the other hand, West and South Miami Dade are far more residential and especially SW Miami is very dense. This merits some kind of transportation system other than buses that has not been implemented.

While the county or its agencies expand its highways and add more lanes for cars, the only excuse they have for public transportation is very similar to yours in that "the numbers don't add up." I say, with a little bit better planning, they might come up with a solution that actually works following the principle of "induced demand."

You could as well use the same principle of "induced demand" and foment better planning in our cities to have a better use of the land and provide the density your long desired option needs to be viable. You simply cannot have a Metrorail line going through 'burbs with low density and plenty of open space. Don't really know if you are in fact a civil engineer/urban planner/or any related profession but in school you're taught what transit option satisfies what traffic demand. Simply as that. It's simply not justifiable; and you'll have the republicans in Miami-Dade complaining in a second about the waste of tax payers money. You want a change? Talk to your commissioners!

Originally Posted by CalleOchoGringo

I wish I could share your optimism, but I fail to see this. Most of that road's traffic problems are east of that interchange. In fact allowing more capacity of cars coming from Palmetto (either North or South) to be dumped onto 836 Eastbound in the morning (to downtown) will probably have the opposite effect, it will make the traffic worse not better.


On the good note, if I'm right then people in Kendall/Miami Lakes will be screaming for metrorail after a year of that.

Once you start doing good things with everybody's tax money you'll get "in the mood". Sometime you feel people or certain area dont deserve the changes that about to happen but ultimately it's in the best interest of our society as a whole.

[deambulante]

The problem is I don't see neither metrorail expansion nor expressway expansion... Yes the interchange thing is a big project as is the 595 thing, the former was indispensible and 20 years overdue... the latter was also overdue by 5-10 years. There is nothing in those that is ahead of the time.

There should be a new expressway going along far west Miami-Dade from the 836 west and then south along krome... that would make people living in the far west developments and West Kendall take that instead of the Turnpike or even Shula southbound.

With that, I would extend the Shula to meet this new western expressway.

The Gratigny has been completely tolled so they should at least have started connecting it east with I-95.

I think the Okechoobe road should be partially expressway at some point going north to Pembroke Pines and Weston.

And they should make the Turnpike/I-75 interchange fully functional (which it isn't today).

I also think they should open a new exit on the Turnpike connecting with West Miramar. That area is a disaster in the mornings witha bottleneck on Miramar Parkway with people getting on 75 just to access the Turnpike. They should obviate that with another entrance point.

They should extend the Sawgrass to I-95.

I mean there is so many things that are overdue... it's ridiculous. And there's more tolls than ever.

Metrorail expansion I've given up on... So if everyone says Miami is a car city, where are all of the above necessary improvements??

[theEmbarcadero]

Originally Posted by deambulante

The problem is I don't see neither metrorail expansion nor expressway expansion... Yes the interchange thing is a big project as is the 595 thing, the former was indispensible and 20 years overdue... the latter was also overdue by 5-10 years. There is nothing in those that is ahead of the time.

There should be a new expressway going along far west Miami-Dade from the 836 west and then south along krome... that would make people living in the far west developments and West Kendall take that instead of the Turnpike or even Shula southbound.

With that, I would extend the Shula to meet this new western expressway.

The Gratigny has been completely tolled so they should at least have started connecting it east with I-95.

I think the Okechoobe road should be partially expressway at some point going north to Pembroke Pines and Weston.

And they should make the Turnpike/I-75 interchange fully functional (which it isn't today).

I also think they should open a new exit on the Turnpike connecting with West Miramar. That area is a disaster in the mornings witha bottleneck on Miramar Parkway with people getting on 75 just to access the Turnpike. They should obviate that with another entrance point.

They should extend the Sawgrass to I-95.

I mean there is so many things that are overdue... it's ridiculous. And there's more tolls than ever.

Metrorail expansion I've given up on... So if everyone says Miami is a car city, where are all of the above necessary improvements??

....because there is not a Miami-Dade politician alive that can put their own personal interest and gain, above the greater good of the area. None of them are willing to make the political sacrifices that will benefit Miami-Dade for the next 200 years.....sad, really...! RIP Dante Facell.....and Claude Pepper.....

[spellbound]

Originally Posted by theEmbarcadero

RIP Dante Facell.....and Claude Pepper.....

...and Bill Lehman.

[CalleOchoGringo]

Originally Posted by ftlauddude

Once you start doing good things with everybody's tax money you'll get "in the mood". Sometime you feel people or certain area dont deserve the changes that about to happen but ultimately it's in the best interest of our society as a whole.

I think you misunderstand me. I don't feel anyone doesn't deserve anything other than a better commute and more commuting options in the morning. But with the track record we have, I have to remain pessimistic. See Deambulante's post and Embarc's response, above this one to better understand my reasoning for why I am such a cynic on this. It's hard not to be when you have lived in this town all your life.

[theEmbarcadero]

Originally Posted by spellbound

...and Bill Lehman.

Yes..!

my bad