TRANSPORT | Piccadilly To Victoria Direct Rail Link | Ordsall Curve

[Viscount702]

Originally Posted by Joseph_Locke

Careful - "Headway" comes in two distinct flavours - Technical and Planning.

Technical is, theoretically, what the signalling system can deliver given the train lengths and permissible speeds, with Asimo driving the train and no weather, leaves, engine failures, persons with prams, etc.

Planning is what the timetable assumes, allowing for the fact that drivers are human and passengers aren't robots either, etc. This latter value is typically (but not always) 30-50% higher than the Technical value. The exact degree of uplift for each signal depends on many factors, such as the uplift on the preceeding and following signals, the uplift on the whole route, the proximity of stations and junctions, etc., etc.

Not an expert by any means JL. Just quoting from the Manchester Hub document in reply to a previous post

[madferret]

Originally Posted by Viscount702

The Manchester Hub document refers to an headway of 2 minutes. NR on the Nothern Hub facts etc refers to increasing the number of trains through the Castlefield corridor from 12 to 16 an hour

I found the reference (my emphasis):

[5.11.4] On the Castlefield corridor provision of two additional
through platforms at Manchester Piccadilly immediately
to the south of the existing platforms 13 and 14, hence
known as 15 and 16, allows trains to arrive in one
platform while another train is departing in the same
direction from another. This intervention with minor
works at Manchester Oxford Road to operate in the
same manner increases the effective capacity to allow
trains to be planned to run three minutes apart rather
than the existing four minutes apart.

[Joseph_Locke]

Originally Posted by madferret

I found the reference (my emphasis):

That's a three minute planning headway then, which sort of implies a two minute technical headway.

[DiscoSteve]

and wouldn't that increase the TPH over Castlefield Viaduct from 15TPH to 20TPH (not the 12 and 16 mentioned by the Manchester Hub document) !?

[Joseph_Locke]

Originally Posted by DiscoSteve

and wouldn't that increase the TPH over Castlefield Viaduct from 15TPH to 20TPH (not the 12 and 16 mentioned by the Manchester Hub document) !?

No, because freight trains don't play by the rules, and there'll still be the hourly Trafford Park freightliner that devours track capacity.

[madferret]

Originally Posted by Joseph_Locke

That's a three minute planning headway then, which sort of implies a two minute technical headway.

If you say so .

I thought I had read 4 down to 3 somewhere though. Mind, if the plans are to go from 12 to 16 per hour that's 5 down to 4 (rounded).

EDIT: And you have explained why!

[jrb]

Plenty about the Ordsall Curve today.

Place North West.

NW 2013: Changing tracks

11 Dec 2012, 10:58

In association with MC2

The foundations are being laid for Manchester's next development boom in a series of transport projects, but is the property world fully aware?

For developers of big ticket schemes, and their investors, decisions on where to focus resources and capital are based on short-term market conditions, but also on their best estimates as to how dynamics might improve - or not - over the medium and long term.

No doubt the Chancellor's Autumn Statement will form a key part of their deliberations, and, despite the government's commitment to waive empty business rates for new build development, its somewhat disheartening predictions that the UK will not balance the books for another six years will do little to instil confidence in the development sector.

Does this mean that a developer's only option is to sit twiddling his thumbs for another half decade, or does he gear up now ready to identify opportunities, forge new alliances, make strategic investments and prepare for the inevitable upswing?

With the current climate awash with pessimism, little attention has been paid to some hugely positive forthcoming developments in the region's transport infrastructure.

The Northern Hub rail investment will see the Ordsall Chord connect Manchester's three central stations, with Victoria being completely refurbished, two new platforms added at Piccadilly, plus new tracks and electrification of existing lines to speed up journey times across the North. NOMA will be a big beneficiary.

Manchester Airport has room to grow its current annual passenger volumes from 20 to 50 million, with access set to be dramatically improved with the new A6 to Manchester Airport Relief Road and A556 bypass. This augurs well for the game changing Airport City scheme.
Metrolink's expansion continues apace. Rochdale and Ashton will next year join the network, following Oldham in 2012, with construction well underway on the Manchester Airport line through South Manchester and Wythenshawe.

Plans for the Second City Crossing have also been approved, to connect Victoria to Salford Quays and Altrincham via a revamped St Peter's Square, standing in the shadows of the One St Peter's Square on the site of the former Elisabeth House and the refurbished Town Hall and Central Library.

To compete on the international stage cities need expansive and efficient transport infrastructure. This only serves to underline the importance of these developments to Manchester.

Greater Manchester already offers an enviable list of key strategic sites which can unlock significant new opportunities over the next decade. By virtue of their proximity to existing and new infrastructure, NOMA, Granada, First Street, Siemens, Airport City and Grand Central are well placed to generate much needed economic growth.

These are just the known quantities. No doubt canny developers are already spotting opportunities ready to be unlocked with the support of those entrepreneurial investors who understand that development is typically a long but rewarding game.

2013 is the time to plan, to begin to think more positively about the benefits of Manchester's improving transport network. Be bold, seize the opportunity and invest. Get it right and there are fortunes to be made down the tracks.
■Adam White, associate director, planning and development, Jones Lang LaSalle in Manchester

[jrb]

Also.

MCC Executive.

The Bowstring Bridge is the cheaper option and will probably be one that is chosen.(see screen grab 4)

Links to the 2 pdf's below the screen grabs. Some cracking new renders which haven't been posted yet. 2nd pdf.(Guessing)









Item 7 - Ordsall Chord - Consultation on the Network Rail Order PDF 198.15 KB http://www.manchester.gov.uk/egov_do...dsallChord.pdf

Item 7 - Ordsall Chord - Consultation on the Network Rail Order (Appendix) PDF 1.16 MB http://www.manchester.gov.uk/egov_do...rdAppendix.pdf

[jrb]

New PDF added to the Exec meetings.

Takes you here.

Item 7 - Ordsall Chord - Other Consultation Documents (external link)

As of December 2012 documentation relating to the consultation on the rail proposal can be downloaded from the Network Rail website:

http://www.ordsallchord.co.uk/documents.asp

[js1000]

Thank god there going for the bowstring bridge. More cheaper and aesthetically better.

[neil]

'Ordsall chord' to sever historic MOSI line
14th December 2012
By James Graham - Deputy Editor, North West
THE Ordsall Chord, a new railway link between Piccadilly and Victoria stations, will have an "unavoidable and significant impact" on the Castlefield area, including severing the world's first passenger line which has been preserved at the Museum of Science and Industry (MOSI). That's according to a new council report into the project, part of the £560m Northern Hub rail improvements which are expected to boost the Northern economy by £4bn. However, the Ordsall Chord, which should open to rail traffic by 2016, requires a new viaduct in Castlefield close to historic buildings and bridges which the museum - set to oppose the proposals - says will have a "severe impact". According to a report prepared for a meeting of Manchester City Council's executive next week, a team of heritage and archaeological advisors have been appointed by Network Rail to assess the impact of the proposal. "Their report will be critical to the justification of the scheme and will include a full heritage and archaeological assessment," says the council. MOSI runs a replica of Robert Stephenson's 1830 Planet locomotive on a short stretch of a line running from the world's first passenger station at Liverpool Road that would be bisected by the proposed rail link. The museum said it supported the Northern Hub project, but will object to Network Rail's proposals, claiming they will have, "a damaging effect on MOSI visitors, volunteers and income". In a statement it said: "Our preference would be that the Ordsall chord be delivered whilst preserving MOSI's heritage and cultural standing, maintaining its ability to run its popular steam train ride on its current Y-shaped configuration, and maintaining MOSI's access to the mainline. "The proposed alignment does not deliver on any of these objectives. It will have a severe impact on MOSI’s visitors, its historic site, its day-to-day railway operations, its volunteers, its routine revenue generating activity, and its fund-raising ability related to its ambition to restore and interpret the MOSI story of where science met industry and the modern world began. The council's report states: "The key heritage issues to consider are the impacts of the chord on heritage assets and on the character and appearance of the area. Whilst the proposed alignment would completely avoid the Grade 1-listed Stephenson’s Bridge, the adjacent Grade 2-listed “zig-zag” bridge would need to be modified to accommodate the chord and part of it would need to be removed. It should be noted that this listed structure is in extremely poor condition. "It should also be noted that its removal would, if justified and approved, reveal the Grade 1 listed Stephenson’s Bridge. Construction of the chord would also have an adverse impact on rail access to MOSI as the current route into the museum by rail would be severed. Network Rail are continuing to consult with both the museum and the Friends of MOSI to identify the best possible solution in this location. "Finally, the Water Street bridge would need to be modified and rebuilt to accommodate the widened railway. Whilst this is not listed it is considered to be a non-designated heritage asset and Network Rail is working with the council and English Heritage to determine the best solution for this location."

Do apologise from 'The Business Desk'

[madferret]

Source?

[Farsight]

See this:

http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/north..._section=4148#

[WeasteDevil]

The severing of the MOSI line is IMO unacceptable.

[madferret]

Originally Posted by WeasteDevil

The severing of the MOSI line is IMO unacceptable.

Why?

[heatonparkincakes]

Given the "Rocket" line ploughed through the scant Roman diggings in Castlefield, I doubt Stephenson would endorse MOSI 's sentiments and would wonder why it took so long to make the connection.

[hulmeman2]

Originally Posted by heatonparkincakes

Given the "Rocket" line ploughed through the scant Roman diggings in Castlefield, I doubt Stephenson would endorse MOSI 's sentiments and would wonder why it took so long to make the connection.

Agree. A 500 metre chug isn't going to be missed much, but I do think that provision should be made for MOSI to access NR's network for the movement of exhibits, via an at level crossover, used only off peak.

[Tony_H1]

MOSI if they really want could connect soon to be isolated line from the station at the other end anyway, makes a nice Y shape, up and down one leg, back to the station and then down the other branch. Everyone is happy.

[slipdigby]

The whole MOSI thing is a red herring designed to extract the greatest amount of compensation out of NR for severing the connection, nothing more or less. From those who I've spoken to on both parties, this seems to be an open secret. Despite protestations to the contrary, the museum will not be abandoned by its visitors and volunteers if one leg of a 5 minute out and back steam train ride is closed off (and as has been stated by others - alternative alignments exist). The NR connection is of very limited practical use, most rail visitors to the site are not certified for use on the mainline and have to be brought in by road anyway. HRH's Tornado visit was pretty much a one off in recent times, the layout of the site and conflicting access requirements by service trains pretty much preclude any regular revenue earning visits by charter trains.

Best,
Slip

[Marksy_1]

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereven...l-road-station

Ministers have been asked to step in over fears a new £85m bridge will sever the world’s oldest train station from the rail network. Bosses at Network Rail are consulting on plans to build the new bridge over the River Irwell in Castlefield to link Victoria and Piccadilly stations for the first time.

The so-called ‘Ordsall Chord’ is part of a £530m plan to improve the rail network around Manchester, known as the Northern Hub, which experts say would create 23,000 jobs and stimulate £4.2bn in economic benefits.

But there are fears it could mean that steam trains will no longer be able to access the former Liverpool Road station, which forms part of the Museum of Science and Industry (MOSI). That in turn could hit the museum’s funding.

Keith Whitmore, former chairman of the Transport for Greater Manchester Committee, has called on rail minister Norman Baker to intervene.

He said: “I’ve made it quite clear that a solution needs to be found to this. Common sense needs to prevail.

“This project is very important to the region, but it needs to be done in a way that benefits everybody and considers the heritage of the area.

“This is the oldest passenger railway station in the world and it’s going to look ridiculous for a modern railway to compromise its history in this way.”

A spokeswoman for MOSI said it supported the Northern Hub project but would be objecting to Network Rail’s proposed alignment of the bridge.

She said: “It will have a severe impact on MOSI’s visitors, its historic site, its day-to-day railway operations, its volunteers, its routine revenue generating activity, and its fund-raising ability.”

Network Rail’s plans will go before a planning inspector.

Manchester council’s executive has passed a report recommending supporting construction of the Ordsall Chord.

A spokesman for Network Rail said: “We continue to work very hard to minimise the impact we are having on the rich heritage in the area. We have amended the proposed alignment of the chord to minimise impact on the Grade I-listed structure.”