London Overground

[Tubeman]

Originally Posted by Peckhamdamo

Just back from a trip on the new line. Lots of passengers from all walks of life! Only hitch was the train announced the next station was Surrey Canal Road northbound at queens road! QRP was very busy for a Sunday, it's going to be a great boost for the area, especially when the piazza is finished and the cafes and bars open (one can dream).

Yep Rye Lane is going to be unrecognisable in 10 years time...

I was looking for a render of the piazza and came across this gem... the recently restored waiting room in Peckham Rye station:



...the piazza... today a cramped jumble of groceries / mobile phone stalls hiding the station away

[makita09]

Wow that will be lovely. Peckham Rye station looks worse than awful at the moment.

[CroydonBoy]

How much would it have costed to build platforms for Southeastern metro trains at Wandsworth Rd and/or Clapham High St, to appease those who were campaigning against the removal of the SLL ??

[cle]

Originally Posted by CroydonBoy

How much would it have costed to build platforms for Southeastern metro trains at Wandsworth Rd and/or Clapham High St, to appease those who were campaigning against the removal of the SLL ??

Problem is that it'd slow down all the faster Kent trains, which share the same tracks. Slow trains are now 4tph, so I can't imagine pathing allows the stops there and at Brixton too, a minute down the track.

If 2 out of the 4tph could stop (I'd say only Clapham HS would be viable) then it might be popular. Could be a useful interchange from Southeast London and Kent, not only to the Northern line but also for Clapham Junction and other ELL stations

[DarJoLe]

Ken mooted an Overground extension from Bellingham to Victoria as appeasement for the removal of the SLL. Boris ignored it.

Liverpool Street to Enfield is also in early planning.

[mr_jrt]

Originally Posted by cle

Problem is that it'd slow down all the faster Kent trains, which share the same tracks. Slow trains are now 4tph, so I can't imagine pathing allows the stops there and at Brixton too, a minute down the track.

If 2 out of the 4tph could stop (I'd say only Clapham HS would be viable) then it might be popular. Could be a useful interchange from Southeast London and Kent, not only to the Northern line but also for Clapham Junction and other ELL stations

Perhaps this could be one of the factors that provides a stronger base for the argument to build SLL platforms at Brixton. It's no big deal if the faster trains don't stop at Clapham HS and WR if there's a decent interchange at Brixton...

[mackenziesoley]

Originally Posted by DarJoLe

Ken mooted an Overground extension from Bellingham to Victoria as appeasement for the removal of the SLL. Boris ignored it.

Liverpool Street to Enfield is also in early planning.

It wasn't a LO service at all. It was a possible service but the funding for it was diverted to help complete the SLL extension of LO.

Victoria was ruled out for LO services due to the cost of loss of business to the TOCs as it would lose money by going there. That said in an emergency LO services can be diverted. Bit like how an 378 was diverted into London Bridge today.

[cle]

But the Bellingham service is possibly going to be a Bromley South service now. Victoria to the Catford Loop seems a sensible routing.

[mackenziesoley]

Originally Posted by cle

But the Bellingham service is possibly going to be a Bromley South service now. Victoria to the Catford Loop seems a sensible routing.

Yes via Bellingham.

[Tubeman]

Originally Posted by CroydonBoy

How much would it have costed to build platforms for Southeastern metro trains at Wandsworth Rd and/or Clapham High St, to appease those who were campaigning against the removal of the SLL ??

It would be very feasible insofar there were platforms here before, but probably not desirable for the reasons stated above

[cle]

Originally Posted by mackenziesoley

Yes via Bellingham.

Of course. But the original suggestion was that it terminate there, which clearly didn't have enough demand.

But running to Bromley/Orpington/wherever at the other end is good for reverse commutes/local journeys too - the Catford Loop could easily handle more traffic.

[mackenziesoley]

Originally Posted by cle

Of course. But the original suggestion was that it terminate there, which clearly didn't have enough demand.

But running to Bromley/Orpington/wherever at the other end is good for reverse commutes/local journeys too - the Catford Loop could easily handle more traffic.

I wonder what came first, Victoria - Bellingham or Thameslink - Bellingham service?

Off peak is there demand for more services? However with a lacking 2tph demand may be suppressing demand. In peak it's already a busy line with many non stop trains using the line. There may not be that much capacity especially when Thameslink is finished and runs 6tph via the loop.

[sotonsi]

Victoria - Bellingham came first. Network Rail changed their minds and considered Thameslink a better fit (as well as not having a 4-car train use up capacity at Victoria, it also removes the two termini problem on the inner stopping service, with 2x2tph instead of 4tph. Likewise Orpington via Bromley, which Bellingham services seem to have swapped with).

Not that Boris or Ken could do anything about such services but lobby Network Rail and Southeastern.

[mackenziesoley]

Originally Posted by sotonsi

Victoria - Bellingham came first. Network Rail changed their minds and considered Thameslink a better fit (as well as not having a 4-car train use up capacity at Victoria, it also removes the two termini problem on the inner stopping service, with 2x2tph instead of 4tph. Likewise Orpington via Bromley, which Bellingham services seem to have swapped with).

Not that Boris or Ken could do anything about such services but lobby Network Rail and Southeastern.

Thanks. Wasn't sure of the timing. Ironically that even if the mayor does gets his hands on Southeastern these services won't be his.

[makita09]

Originally Posted by sotonsi

Victoria - Bellingham came first. Network Rail changed their minds and considered Thameslink a better fit (as well as not having a 4-car train use up capacity at Victoria, it also removes the two termini problem on the inner stopping service, with 2x2tph instead of 4tph. Likewise Orpington via Bromley, which Bellingham services seem to have swapped with).

Not that Boris or Ken could do anything about such services but lobby Network Rail and Southeastern.

This will end up as being precisely the same Thameslink service as operated in the early to mid 90s.

[LondonerMiles]

I heard recently that Boris could be intercepted possession or all of Londons railways very soon. 9 car class 378s rolling out of every London terminus, with lines named such as how they were in the NSE era (South London Lines, Thames Line etc) sounds like a good idea. Over time the routes could be converted into Crossrails.

[mackenziesoley]

Originally Posted by LondonerMiles

I heard recently that Boris could be intercepted possession or all of Londons railways very soon. 9 car class 378s rolling out of every London terminus, with lines named such as how they were in the NSE era (South London Lines, Thames Line etc) sounds like a good idea. Over time the routes could be converted into Crossrails.

They already stated they want the SE and GA metro routes and have stated they would not be getting new trains. More about better staffing at stations within the zones.

[Jon10]

Originally Posted by mackenziesoley

They already stated they want the SE and GA metro routes and have stated they would not be getting new trains. More about better staffing at stations within the zones.

So no new trains?

That would need to decide if they were prepared to "dilute the brand" then, given the high quality of the current "London Overground" offering.

For instance, they previously treated the ex-Silverlink trains as only worthy of some stickers on the outside, and nothing more, before the new trains arrived.

Maybe they would respray the outside of current trains, to bring them into the fold.

[mackenziesoley]

Originally Posted by Jon10

So no new trains?

That would need to decide if they were prepared to "dilute the brand" then, given the high quality of the current "London Overground" offering.

For instance, they previously treated the ex-Silverlink trains as only worthy of some stickers on the outside, and nothing more, before the new trains arrived.

Maybe they would respray the outside of current trains, to bring them into the fold.

Simply put there's no money. On SE the trains aren't that old and don't need replacing. They have said they'd get a refresh and likely have much more than the 313s did as they were a stop gap measure. But other than new seat covers and new livery, doubt much else would be done. However it may lead to SE long distance to merge into Thameslink/Southern.

[ill tonkso]

Some of them are only 7 years old. The oldest is 23 years old and will be replaced anyway in the next 10 years.

Excluding the High Speed obviously.