MNL | Manila-Ninoy Aquino International Airport

[fieldsofdreams]

Originally Posted by NTprime

Again, another high end hotel chain setting up right across Terminal 3.

That is definitely a sign that LCCs should move to another terminal (T1) and let international carriers fly out of T3 because high-end hotels that cater to business passengers require a short drive to and from the airport, and that international passengers arriving at T1 -- and drive all the way to the other side -- is a bad proposition to deal with, especially that there are only a few hotels, if not none, that can accommodate business travelers in a smooth manner from plane to room and back. For them, time is of essence, hence the airport hotels located next to T3.

And speaking of T3, what other airlines will move there next year, aside from CX, DL, and EK?

[fieldsofdreams]

Originally Posted by Sky Harbor

For this, I beg to disagree. At the very least, there is bus service to the terminals' doorstep: buses don't have to directly drop people off in front of the terminal doors for it to be useful. This is the arrangement, for example, in cities such as Cluj-Napoca in Romania, where the bus drops passengers off right outside the airport gate. There's also a similar arrangement in Riga, where the bus stop is some distance from the terminal entrance.

If I were to design my airport, I would deliberately operate the buses through a "basement" level ramp that is on the same floor as the arrivals ramp wherein commuters can take the bus from the City proper all the way to the airport's doorstep, and that I would provide frequent service with minimal stops along the way (e.g. Limited express or BRT). With a frequent service, luggage racks on board, free WiFi, and bike racks, what more can passengers ask for? I'd develop it immediately to make the service attractive to more riders.

[cartman7110]

Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams

That is definitely a sign that LCCs should move to another terminal (T1) and let international carriers fly out of T3 because high-end hotels that cater to business passengers require a short drive to and from the airport, and that international passengers arriving at T1 -- and drive all the way to the other side -- is a bad proposition to deal with, especially that there are only a few hotels, if not none, that can accommodate business travelers in a smooth manner from plane to room and back. For them, time is of essence, hence the airport hotels located next to T3.

And speaking of T3, what other airlines will move there next year, aside from CX, DL, and EK?

Why should they when they were not asked to move? Besides T3 is not ready as it still needs to be retrofit.

Thinking like CX or Delta, why should we even move costing us more when there will be a new airport soon. I'd move to the new airport instead.

Personally, should they remain in T1? no. But do they have a good excuse to stay put? yes.

What makes you think that the non-LCC (aka rich patrons who uses say CX over PR or 5J) does not head over to resorts world, the dinner area, or even just for the casinos to waste time? There are Taxis or their own drivers to bring them to RW to spend killing time, with the same driver to bring them back to the airport.

Granted T3 is perfect for these rich patrons but then its not impossible to do it with T1.

I personally know of a few flyers who check in early, goes out of the airport, have dinner or breakfast with friends in RW and then an hour before flight they head back to the airport to take the flight out.

[cartman7110]

Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams

If I were to design my airport, I would deliberately operate the buses through a "basement" level ramp that is on the same floor as the arrivals ramp wherein commuters can take the bus from the City proper all the way to the airport's doorstep, and that I would provide frequent service with minimal stops along the way (e.g. Limited express or BRT). With a frequent service, luggage racks on board, free WiFi, and bike racks, what more can passengers ask for? I'd develop it immediately to make the service attractive to more riders.

Who would pay for the retrofit and bus service? Which agency's pocket will this come from?

[fieldsofdreams]

Well, bus companies operating in Metro Manila can operate those routes with little to no problem. What is needed would be investment in adding luggage racks and bike racks, as well as commitment from the bus companies, MMDA, DOTC, MIAA, and other related agencies to fund putting such small amenities that would make commuting to and from the airport more convenient and better over time. There should be political, social, and private sector will to make such sacrifices to make airport travel much better than what it is today... it may cost some money, but the commuters and airport riders will benefit a lot from them.

[cartman7110]

That service minus the direct route and US goodies like luggage rack and wifi is available today. http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntre...readID=2183254

So you think MMDA, DOTC, and MIAA should spend with what little they have in subsidizing a shuttle bus, when would it not be better to find a way to lower the price of taxis at the airport?

Because if i had two large check in baggage, i don't want to take a subsidized shuttle bus to say MOA or Megamall and end up in the curb either waiting for my sundo or take a taxi home. I'd rather take a taxi home straight from the airport.

This bus scheme (not that i don't like buses, i take them all the time) reminds me of (name-withheld)'s Php 140 Bus ride to Clark. Which brings me to another question: how much is what you think would be the right fare (and indicate if it would be subsidized).

[NTprime]

Originally Posted by Sky Harbor

For this, I beg to disagree. At the very least, there is bus service to the terminals' doorstep: buses don't have to directly drop people off in front of the terminal doors for it to be useful. This is the arrangement, for example, in cities such as Cluj-Napoca in Romania, where the bus drops passengers off right outside the airport gate. There's also a similar arrangement in Riga, where the bus stop is some distance from the terminal entrance.

Sure, I am listening. Which bus line are you referring to that drops off people near NAIA Terminal 3? I know of only one.

If you are referring to the Hyundai mini buses (I posted a picture in SSC about 2 years back), that is still inconvenient because its terminal is at the intersection of Taft and EDSA. Not the best place for one to be carrying his/her luggage just to get up to the overpass and then down to the MRT end station at Taft. There are now larger Mitsubishi buses and some other Ford vehicles similar to the shuttles in the US, but the routes are still limited. And EDSA is not the best place unless they are going to the provincial bus terminals nearby or the MRT/LRT, as I mentioned.

Here's a link regarding that airport bus service but I still feel it is does not still serve the majority of the traveling public landing at NAIA.

http://directionsonweb.blogspot.com/...ay-to-get.html

[NTprime]

Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams

If I were to design my airport, I would deliberately operate the buses through a "basement" level ramp that is on the same floor as the arrivals ramp wherein commuters can take the bus from the City proper all the way to the airport's doorstep, and that I would provide frequent service with minimal stops along the way (e.g. Limited express or BRT). With a frequent service, luggage racks on board, free WiFi, and bike racks, what more can passengers ask for? I'd develop it immediately to make the service attractive to more riders.

Yes, this would be ideal, but I don't think Terminal 3 has a bus area located in a basement level similar to what you'd see in Changi or the other major hub airports.

If they had dug out a basement before Terminal 3 was started, then they could have likewise bored a tunnel underneath the runway to connect with Terminal 2. That obviously didn't happen.

So because PIATCO took out the tunnel connection item in their revisions of the NAIA Terminal 3 contract, the transiting passengers have to suffer as a result.

[NTprime]

Originally Posted by cartman7110

That service minus the direct route and US goodies like luggage rack and wifi is available today. http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntre...readID=2183254

So you think MMDA, DOTC, and MIAA should spend with what little they have in subsidizing a shuttle bus, when would it not be better to find a way to lower the price of taxis at the airport?

Because if i had two large check in baggage, i don't want to take a subsidized shuttle bus to say MOA or Megamall and end up in the curb either waiting for my sundo or take a taxi home. I'd rather take a taxi home straight from the airport.

This bus scheme (not that i don't like buses, i take them all the time) reminds me of (name-withheld)'s Php 140 Bus ride to Clark. Which brings me to another question: how much is what you think would be the right fare (and indicate if it would be subsidized).

Government agencies won't subsidize this unless we see a return to the days of the Imeldific MMTC and their iconic LoveBuses.

Hahaha, you had to bring up the name of someone who stopped posting more than a month ago. I wonder what happened to him.

The fare right now for those airport shuttles to EDSA corner Taft is P20. Reasonable, if you ask me. But there should be more routes available except that there is not dedicated bus stop in the airport terminals (or at least nearby where poeple can just bring their luggage carts and transfer their bags directly to the bus without going through long corridors, elevators and escalators).

For me P50, even P100 is reasonable enough for a traveler if the bus service is airconditioned and heading to major CBDs like Makati, Ortigas and Alabang. Obviously with economies of scale, it will be cheaper in some instances to take a taxi if there are 4 passengers (as long as their baggage fits in the trunk). For this purpose ordinary sedans are not practical. They should get like a five seater version of the Toyota Innova (since there are diesel engine options) or a larger Toyota Avanza so luggage would fit.

[Sky Harbor]

Originally Posted by NTprime

Sure, I am listening. Which bus line are you referring to that drops off people near NAIA Terminal 3? I know of only one.

If you are referring to the Hyundai mini buses (I posted a picture in SSC about 2 years back), that is still inconvenient because its terminal is at the intersection of Taft and EDSA. Not the best place for one to be carrying his/her luggage just to get up to the overpass and then down to the MRT end station at Taft. There are now larger Mitsubishi buses and some other Ford vehicles similar to the shuttles in the US, but the routes are still limited. And EDSA is not the best place unless they are going to the provincial bus terminals nearby or the MRT/LRT, as I mentioned.

Here's a link regarding that airport bus service but I still feel it is does not still serve the majority of the traveling public landing at NAIA.

http://directionsonweb.blogspot.com/...ay-to-get.html

Not that. I'm referring to the Citylink bus service between Eastwood and Resorts World via Fort Bonifacio (the route is officially called Eastwood City-Marriott Terminal via Acropolis). Here's a link: http://www.pinoyroadtrip.com/2012/01...t-shuttle.html

Also, for added measure, as I mentioned previously, there are eight bus routes that serve Terminals 1 and 2, all of which go through EDSA.

[mwg12a]

Originally Posted by NTprime

Remember Terminal 3 is still a Low Cost Carrier Terminal, with the exception of ANA. Which means many of the passengers going through T3 are bargain hunters and cost conscious consumers. They probably spent less on their total airfare than the cost of a night's stay in any of the Resort World hotels.

Which is exactly why they should move Cebu Pacific and Airphilexpress out of Terminal 3! There is no symbiotic relationship between the LCCs and the high end hotels at Resorts World!

The best tenant for Terminal 3 would have been PAL but alas, they are going to build their own airport in the near future.

Yep, I totally agree. I was just stating a general scenario to get down on FOD level and I do not mean these in a condescending way. I was just saying, I am trying to be in his shoe to look down on the the birds eyeview according to his own personal perspective.

[fieldsofdreams]

Originally Posted by NTprime

Yes, this would be ideal, but I don't think Terminal 3 has a bus area located in a basement level similar to what you'd see in Changi or the other major hub airports.

If they had dug out a basement before Terminal 3 was started, then they could have likewise bored a tunnel underneath the runway to connect with Terminal 2. That obviously didn't happen.

So because PIATCO took out the tunnel connection item in their revisions of the NAIA Terminal 3 contract, the transiting passengers have to suffer as a result.

That is indeed the big problem: what is with PIATCO that it makes sometimes bad -- if not the worst -- decisions anyone can make to make airport travel much more convenient, fun, and accessible? That is definitely one thing I truly fail to understand and comprehend because for T3 to be successful, both airside and landside, it must be accessible by all forms of public transit that will bring travel rates down considerably, as well as providing more efficient transport options to and from the airport. I wonder what's in their head to begin with... I would reopen the tunnel option and construct it at all costs to make travel much more efficient. If it's for the money...

[fieldsofdreams]

Originally Posted by mwg12a

Yep, I totally agree. I was just stating a general scenario to get down on FOD level and I do not mean these in a condescending way. I was just saying, I am trying to be in his shoe to look down on the the birds eyeview according to his own personal perspective.

Seriously? What makes you think that you should go down to my level? I am trying to go up and improve the airport layout and situation. Let me ask: what would you like to improve in any of NAIA's terminals, if you have the opportunity to do so?

[cartman7110]

Originally Posted by NTprime

Government agencies won't subsidize this unless we see a return to the days of the Imeldific MMTC and their iconic LoveBuses.

Hahaha, you had to bring up the name of someone who stopped posting more than a month ago. I wonder what happened to him.

The fare right now for those airport shuttles to EDSA corner Taft is P20. Reasonable, if you ask me. But there should be more routes available except that there is not dedicated bus stop in the airport terminals (or at least nearby where poeple can just bring their luggage carts and transfer their bags directly to the bus without going through long corridors, elevators and escalators).

For me P50, even P100 is reasonable enough for a traveler if the bus service is airconditioned and heading to major CBDs like Makati, Ortigas and Alabang. Obviously with economies of scale, it will be cheaper in some instances to take a taxi if there are 4 passengers (as long as their baggage fits in the trunk). For this purpose ordinary sedans are not practical. They should get like a five seater version of the Toyota Innova (since there are diesel engine options) or a larger Toyota Avanza so luggage would fit.

Actually, the approach is really simple and you are correct, government shouldn't and could not support it from its coffers: If you take HK's Airport Express, it does not drop you off directly to your destination. It drops you off at their stations and provides you a complimentary shuttle to the hotels.

http://www.mtr.com.hk/eng/getting_ar..._free_bus.html

The AE line is not cheap as there are better alternatives like a tour bus or pre-arranged shuttle (asian version of supershuttle) or taxi, or sundo.

Now will a big shuttle service (>5 passengers) be effective in MM? I do not think that it would.

Why? Because of the market we have. We have the following:

-Balikbayans or Local Businessman = may susundo/family car/driver or Airport Taxi/Van for hire service.
-Tourist or Businessman staying at a hotel = Hotel/Limo or Taxi service (pre-arranged).
-Connecting = they rarely go out of the airport anymore.

Then you have to consider the traffic. For a shuttle to drop you off say simply at Makati, then you would need to buffer in two hours round trip (shortest).

An hourly Makati shuttle is not possible given the traffic. So i doubt profit is possible.

But the real reason i think it won't be successful? If the bulk of passengers do have checked baggage, then they would always consider their safety. They want to be from airport to home/hotel in one shot.

Like i said before, when balikbayans come home, friends offer picking them up (not just for the pasalubong) but because of safety.

Now what about those who are budget or don't carry heavy items? Yes, i'm a candidate for such a shuttle service. But i was to still need to go to Taft, why should i not just take a taxi direct?

Is there a market? Yes. But is there enough market? No.

That's just me. I could be wrong so please enlighten me.

[NTprime]

Originally Posted by cartman7110

Actually, the approach is really simple and you are correct, government shouldn't and could not support it from its coffers: If you take HK's Airport Express, it does not drop you off directly to your destination. It drops you off at their stations and provides you a complimentary shuttle to the hotels.

http://www.mtr.com.hk/eng/getting_ar..._free_bus.html

The AE line is not cheap as there are better alternatives like a tour bus or pre-arranged shuttle (asian version of supershuttle) or taxi, or sundo.

Now will a big shuttle service (>5 passengers) be effective in MM? I do not think that it would.

Why? Because of the market we have. We have the following:

-Balikbayans or Local Businessman = may susundo/family car/driver or Airport Taxi/Van for hire service.
-Tourist or Businessman staying at a hotel = Hotel/Limo or Taxi service (pre-arranged).
-Connecting = they rarely go out of the airport anymore.

Then you have to consider the traffic. For a shuttle to drop you off say simply at Makati, then you would need to buffer in two hours round trip (shortest).

An hourly Makati shuttle is not possible given the traffic. So i doubt profit is possible.

But the real reason i think it won't be successful? If the bulk of passengers do have checked baggage, then they would always consider their safety. They want to be from airport to home/hotel in one shot.

Like i said before, when balikbayans come home, friends offer picking them up (not just for the pasalubong) but because of safety.

Now what about those who are budget or don't carry heavy items? Yes, i'm a candidate for such a shuttle service. But i was to still need to go to Taft, why should i not just take a taxi direct?

Is there a market? Yes. But is there enough market? No.

That's just me. I could be wrong so please enlighten me.

Yes, I agree with you on all counts there.

Like the Airport Express Line in Hong Kong - I've taken it and it's fast (just a little under 30 minutes - sometimes waiting for the ride itself will take a few more minutes), and drops its passengers off at Kowloon Station in Yau Tsim Mong district or Hong Kong station to connect with the Tsuen Wan line. Once you've done it, then you seek other cheaper but reasonably priced alternatives - and the bus is my favorite (especially the double decker buses) where you can play tourist for the duration of its 1 hour trip.

But one thing I have to credit the HKG airport planners that the other city airports in the region haven't done - is that they opened the AEL on the SAME day they moved to Chek Lap Kok. Changi took over 2 decades (1991-2002) before the MRT was finally connected to the airport (I used to get off at Tanah Merah station and take a cab to get there, or just take the bus from downtown). KLIA took almost 4 years (1998-2002) before they opened the KLIA Express to KUL. You had to take a shared taxi or hotel car during the early days of KLIA, not cheap.

Going back to the issue of the airport bus, the real target market are the FITs including the backpackers who will find the cheapest transport option, never mind the time as they have days, weeks, even months to spare to visit a place on the cheap. Also those entry level to mid-level employees whose employers won't allow them hotel limo service but rather reimbursement up to a reasonable amount (note that the yellow taxi fares are not reasonable amounts - LCC airfare is sometimes cheaper). And of course the students, not all of which have relatives in the metropolis who can bring them to the airport when they travel or go home to the provinces. These are just some of the people who will definitely benefit from a more organized and efficient airport shuttle.

Problem is, they are not the top priority of the government nor the bus companies since the margins on the airport shuttle fare are much smaller. So no one has really been that enthusiastic to put up an affordable airport shuttle because of economics.

[cartman7110]

Originally Posted by NTprime

...Problem is, they are not the top priority of the government nor the bus companies since the margins on the airport shuttle fare are much smaller. So no one has really been that enthusiastic to put up an affordable airport shuttle because of economics.

Exactly.

[mwg12a]

Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams

Seriously? What makes you think that you should go down to my level? I am trying to go up and improve the airport layout and situation. Let me ask: what would you like to improve in any of NAIA's terminals, if you have the opportunity to do so?

More on being in your shoes , just trying to see things the way you see it at the same time, direct you to how I see things as well. What I would do to NAIA T1 is what they are already doing since there is no enough space to expand. Was hoping that the plan included the level parking and turn the old parkinglot into areas for concessionaire just like how Cobonpue suggested it, but alas, it is not within the budget or funding.

[Transporter89]

guys! noob question
meron ba air traffic control tower ang Terminal 3? Terminals 1 & 2 ang nakita ko

[eladkram29]

Originally Posted by Transporter89

guys! noob question
meron ba air traffic control tower ang Terminal 3? Terminals 1 & 2 ang nakita ko

Isa lang ATC tower for NAIA complex... ung Nasa Terminal 2

[Transporter89]

teka! meron atc tower ang term 1

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