PYONGYANG | Ryugyong Hotel | 330m | 1083ft | 105 fl | T/O

[deadhead262]

I cant see how it is possible to fit 105 stories into 1083ft.

[mrfusion]

Originally Posted by Kanto

And of course that this building was expensive. It had an incredibly unconventional shape and they had virtually no access to know how from other countries because the only comparable building in the Soviet block was the Ostankino tower, which is just a tower with a few floors and not a skyscraper.

It is interesting you raise this.

I don't quite agree it need to be expensive because it is unconventional, it slope inward, unlike the Capital Gate in UAE, Ryugyong is not a engineering chellenge, it is not harder to build then a conventional rectangular tower.

The Soviet Engineer (even most of the world) doesn't have experience with building skyscapter, so what do you do, you overdesign it, (which might explain why it need to be expensive), the building must be overdesign with redundant supports, etc so that desprite it used low quality concrete, it still get top out and stand in the wind and rain for 20 odd years.

[ThatOneGuy]

It seems to have started with an ordinary core first


then continuing with the sloping, like normal.

It seems like the wing splits into two different, but connected, structures at the little cut-out section.

[AltinD]

Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy

Tiny people, tiny floor heights

At just above 3 meters per floor, how's that any different from 250 meters tall 80 floors buildings in North America?

Also taller floor to ceiling height is required for HVAC piping and machineries, which this tower certanly doesn't have. Here the average is 3.6 meters per floor.

[hesselaar]

http://instagram.com/p/S-jHdZFmAQ/

[ThatOneGuy]

I want you to answer me this, with full details, without referring to the South Korean Commerce group's one comment on the building,(because it means nothing) or personal guessing based on bias:

-How do you know they built it sub-standard in the first place? (Already gave explanations to everything in the photos, don't try it)

-How did North Korea, who built a proper, running, 4 billion dollar dam (for the citizens' use), and other expensive projects, not be able to build a 750 million dollar skyscraper(for leaders' prestige) properly?

-How do you know what North Korea did financially if you don't have access to their documents?

-How do you know they're lying in the Macedonian/Nork report? (I don't want to know what happens if they disrespect the government, I want to know how exactly they are lying to begin with.)





BTW I accounted for the spires. With them, it would have been 50 meters or so, not 100 meters.

[AltinD]

Yeah, peoplee so underestimate the engineeering that goes on dams and similar structures. If you can build one of those, you certanly can build a skyscraper as per the specs

Originally Posted by deadhead262

Must be so depressing to live there with no internet, proper tv or any connection with the outside world. Also being unable to leave the country must also suck, especially for the people who know what is going on. Also I cant see this building ever being used. It was just built to show the outside world N.Korea can suceed on their own ,just like 99% of the nice things in the country(150 000 seater stadium, flagpole,ect.). None of them will ever be used because all they do is cover up the utter misery of the average citizen.

So how has any of that anything to do with how safe or unsafe this building is?

[Kanto]

Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy

I want you to answer me this, with full details, without referring to the South Korean Commerce group's one comment on the building,(because it means nothing) or personal guessing based on bias:

-How do you know they built it sub-standard in the first place? (Already gave explanations to everything in the photos, don't try it)

-How did North Korea, who built a proper, running, 4 billion dollar dam (for the citizens' use), and other expensive projects, not be able to build a 750 million dollar skyscraper(for leaders' prestige) properly?

-How do you know what North Korea did financially if you don't have access to their documents?

-How do you know they're lying in the Macedonian/Nork report? (I don't want to know what happens if they disrespect the government, I want to know how exactly they are lying to begin with.)





BTW I accounted for the spires. With them, it would have been 50 meters or so, not 100 meters.

OK, so here we go for answering:

1, Because a EUChoC delegation inspected the building and found that the concrete used in the hotel was of very poor quality. For more information visit the links I have posted already twice in this thread.

2, A dam is completely different than a supertall. Also, I have no info on the quality with which they built that dam. Even if their dam would be of good quality it absolutely doesn't mean that the hotel must be of good quality too. These are two different buildings with absolutely no relation to each other. You can't judge a building based on another building.

3, The 750 million/2% GDP figure is all arround the internet, if you want to find it google ryugyong hotel 2% gdp.

4, The same way you know that I was lying when I told you I had sex with a grey alien. In most things in life you can't truly proove whether they are true or false, this means you have to deal with trustworthyness. The story of my flying saucer ride is completely untrustworthy, which is just as untrustworthy as North Koreans praising their country. Both of these factors put both of these stories into the realm of fantasy and complete untrustworthyness with reducing their informative contribution to nil.

[AltinD]

Originally Posted by Kanto

1, Because a EUChoC delegation inspected the building and found that the concrete used in the hotel was of very poor quality. For more information visit the links I have posted already twice in this thread.
.

No they did not .... where's the evidence tha they did?

And stop bringing as evidence those articles, unless you find copies of the actual report or at least their full press release, just zip it

[mrfusion]

Originally Posted by Kanto

And I again have to repeat that the fact that it didn't collapse so far means nothing. The building was far lighter without being occupied and without the cladding it even had holes through which air could flow.

Can you put some number into these, how much does the building weight before it was take over, how much does it weight now, and how much will it weight with full occupancy.

What percentage difference are you talking about? Without some numbers, your statement means nothing.

Did any poor quality building ever collapse due to occpancy? If you know some, with details investagations, please brighten us.

[ThatOneGuy]

None of them... and he referred to the South Korean comment as well, with personal biased guessing, exactly what I said not to do...

What's 4 billion dollars, if 750 million is 2%?
And you can judge engineering standards based on the engineering standards of another structure built by the same people.

Hypothetical situation: If North Korea said they, I don't know, created a new chemical element (it is physically possible), and gave full, detailed descriptions and scientific evidence behind their claims, and then, let's say, a south Korean clothing manufacturer said: 'We concluded they didn't.' and presented no physical evidence, and then multiple western medias started copy/pasting that line over and over to suit their sensationalist agenda to attract viewers, who would you believe?

That last comment showcases personal bias against the country, and how it clouds the ability to make logical decisions.
Just face it, with the current info on this building, it's impossible for 90% of the dislikers to say anything bad about it without basing it on the location in one way or another. There's no way around it. I even provided evidence of this unfair judgement. Look at the comments of any of the articles mentioning this building, you will see the true reasons behind the hate.

[Kanto]

Originally Posted by AltinD

No they did not .... where's the evidence tha they did?

And stop bringing as evidence those articles, unless you find copies of the actual report or at least their full press release, just zip it

Yes they did. I posted the links already twice with google search words too. If you're too lazy or too biased to take a look at them it isn't my fault. You know all too well that a full report can be faked just as easily as a short press release. I explained it to you a thousand times, again, it isn't my problem if you're too biased to accept this reality.

Can you put some number into these, how much does the building weight before it was take over, how much does it weight now, and how much will it weight with full occupancy.

What percentage difference are you talking about? Without some numbers, your statement means nothing.

Did any poor quality building ever collapse due to occpancy? If you know some, with details investagations, please brighten us.

I never talked about numbers, I only stated that without people the building is lighter, which is a fact because all normal mass in this universe weights something.

None of them... and he referred to the South Korean comment as well, with personal biased guessing, exactly what I said not to do...

What's 4 billion dollars, if 750 million is 2%?
And you can judge engineering standards based on the engineering standards of another structure built by the same people.

Hypothetical situation: If North Korea said they, I don't know, created a new chemical element (it is physically possible), and gave full, detailed descriptions and scientific evidence behind their claims, and then, let's say, a south Korean clothing manufacturer said: 'We concluded they didn't.' and presented no physical evidence, and then multiple western medias started copy/pasting that line over and over to suit their sensationalist agenda to attract viewers, who would you believe?

That last comment showcases personal bias against the country, and how it clouds the ability to make logical decisions.
Just face it, with the current info on this building, it's impossible for 90% of the dislikers to say anything bad about it without basing it on the location in one way or another. There's no way around it. I even provided evidence of this unfair judgement. Look at the comments of any of the articles mentioning this building, you will see the true reasons behind the hate.

And I'll say it one more time, if you're too biased to accept my answers it is not my problem. And once again I'll say that you can't judge a building by another building, that's just nonsense. Just because somebody makes a good building (if it even is good, we don't know that) doesn't mean that he is incapable of making a bad building. Pure nonsense. You provided no evidence at all, just a fake report and your speculation. The only evidence in this matter is the EUChoC report and photos of the hotel.

As to your story, it is completely a different case because:

1, North Korea didn't provide any scientific or physical evidence, it provided only a report (note, scientific and physical evidence is something that others can use to test the subject themselves, just a piece of paper isn't scientific evidence) which was done by guess who, North Koreans.

2, The EUChoC didn't just spontaneously say that the hotel is faulty, they hired engineers and conducted an inspection which determined this.

3, The EUChoC provided evidence because it published the conclusions of their inspection.

Btw, I seriously can't understand this hipster approach of yours. In your personal war against mainstream you are conditionlessly accepting anything that isn't mainstream, like North Korean propaganda while refusing to even look at evidence provided by mainstream media such as BBC. Yes, mainstream sometimes is wrong, but sometimes, as in the case of news networks mainstream is good and trustworthy. North Korean propaganda is nonsense but you love it and accept it because it is not mainstream. That is true for all of the 4 great Slaughterhotel defenders (they know who they are).

[AltinD]

Originally Posted by Kanto

Yes they did. I posted the links already twice with google search words too. If you're too lazy or too biased to take a look at them it isn't my fault. You know all too well that a full report can be faked just as easily as a short press release. I explained it to you a thousand times, again, it isn't my problem if you're too biased to accept this reality.

Let me quote myself once again:

... stop bringing as evidence those articles, unless you find copies of the actual report or at least their full press release...

So the reality is that you have not seen any report, just press articles reporting on the report .... and of course the reality is that no one should ask for the report beecause it can be faked, so we just have to take the word of someone as clueless as us for it

Originally Posted by Kanto

2, The EUChoC didn't just spontaneously say that the hotel is faulty, they hired engineers and conducted an inspection which determined this.

3, The EUChoC provided evidence because it published the conclusions of their inspection.

2. How do you know? Where do they say they did that? You have not read their report, and even those articles you posted say nothing about them doing so. It's only you that are saying they must have done it because they would have not reached the conclusions otherwise

3. They published conclusions? Where are these publishings? They should exist someeplace, if they were indeed published, right?


I am getting convinced (for real this time) that your problem isn't really the arrogance (as someone else put it) or the hatred for the NoKo regime .... something way more simple basically

[ThatOneGuy]

I won't accept it because you think that just because they are North Korean, everything they say is a lie and they are automatically inclined to build everything of the worst quality for some strange reason. Even though everything else they built stands fine... the skyscraper..? No... it's bad, because some (now defunct) South Korean business commission said so.

As far as we know, the Macedonian report is 100% correct, since there is nothing disproving it. No retaliation from the Sorks except the equivalent of "Oh, we just concluded it, the shafts looked a bit crooked, and the concrete looked shite, I guess."
Also, something new, nowhere does it mention South Korean engineers entering the building.
I'll bet South Korea never even saw the Macedonian Nork report.


As to my comparison, which is a valid one, why exactly do you believe a scientific report with proven, written evidence (100% objective) issued by North Koreans is a lie (with no reason to lie) and a comment made by South Koreans, with no purpose in judging the stuff made by the Norks, is true, despite zero evidence?
Because they're north koreans, right? Everything they say is 100% false because.. of some...reason...even if it makes sense...

You think Orascom Construction was paid off by a conspiracy of the Nork government, yet you get mad when someone suggests that the South Koreans were paid off by the EU to make this building look bad after they were unable to use it for business.
Sure this is speculation, but you don't allow anyone's speculation other than your own.

An inspection, which you can't even find. And is South Korean.
How the hell did they even get into the building itself if Sorks are the last people allowed in Norea?

Hipster approach? I didn't realize not mindlessly accepting everything fed to me without question was hipster...
I don't love it because it's not mainstream, I consider it because it makes sense, and the opposition gave no proof. You can imagine it there as much as you want, but it isn't there.
And BBC and the west has also been wrong about so many things that they have no excuse of being wrong about. They put thousands of peoples' lives, money, and resources at risk because of the American Government's misjudgments. And they were SURE they were right. But this? This is some skyscraper, that 0.001% of all people know exists, in an obscure enemy country some people can't find on a map. You think they would care if they're right or not?
The sheer fact that the west uses the sensationalist headline "hotel of Doom" (catches people's attention more than 'Ryugyong Hotel') and references the outdated Esquire comment, is proof of bias.

[Vito Corleone]

Can you guys finish this argument...it has been going on for almost 3 months now! Maybe I should call Guinness Book of World Records.

[b5254]

Maybe already posted?

http://pixholder.com/upload/1355185112.jpg

http://pixholder.com/upload/1355185062.jpg

http://pixholder.com/upload/1355185075.jpg

http://pixholder.com/upload/1355185090.jpg

http://pixholder.com/upload/1355185119.jpg

[hmmwv]

Not all pictures have been posted, certainly not full size ones. Thanks.

[ovem]

wow, the first one is awesome!

[ajosh821]

Originally Posted by b5254

Maybe already posted?

http://pixholder.com/upload/1355185112.jpg

http://pixholder.com/upload/1355185062.jpg

http://pixholder.com/upload/1355185075.jpg

http://pixholder.com/upload/1355185090.jpg

http://pixholder.com/upload/1355185119.jpg

Here are the photos.....

[italiano_pellicano]

any new photos of this hotel ?