MADRID - Estadio Santiago Bernabéu (81,178)

[LucianPopa1000]

[QUOTE=RMB2007;96855270]Yeah, the normal capacity for Luzhniki Stadium is just over 78,000. Hosting the final in 2008 meant that some areas of seating were replaced for the media and VIPs, whilst the first couple of rows of seating was left empty, so the capacity of 67,000 is more than likely correct.

Luzhniki has almost 85K seats,that 78 figure is the maximum they usually sell(net capacity).There were aprox 5-6 empty rows at the 08 final,that means like 4-5 K seats lost.Those extra VIP seating at the opposite stand meant another 1-2 K at the very most lost.And Luzhniki has more than plenty of media seats,the number of extra seats for the press didnt eliminate that many seats.I estimated the attendance at 79K couple of years ago,and i counted the lost seats for restricted views/press/VIP.
If the capacity is 78K now were did they remove almost 7K seats?,quite simply they didnt remove any ,just dont sell tickets there anymore.

[RMB2007]

Originally Posted by LucianPopa1000

Yeah, the normal capacity for Luzhniki Stadium is just over 78,000. Hosting the final in 2008 meant that some areas of seating were replaced for the media and VIPs, whilst the first couple of rows of seating was left empty, so the capacity of 67,000 is more than likely correct.

Luzhniki has almost 85K seats,that 78 figure is the maximum they usually sell(net capacity).There were aprox 5-6 empty rows at the 08 final,that means like 4-5 K seats lost.Those extra VIP seating at the opposite stand meant another 1-2 K at the very most lost.And Luzhniki has more than plenty of media seats,the number of extra seats for the press didnt eliminate that many seats.I estimated the attendance at 79K couple of years ago,and i counted the lost seats for restricted views/press/VIP.
If the capacity is 78K now were did they remove almost 7K seats?,quite simply they didnt remove any ,just dont sell tickets there anymore.

And the reason why UEFA (in your view) made up the 67,000 number?

[LucianPopa1000]

Originally Posted by RMB2007

And the reason why UEFA (in your view) made up the 67,000 number?

Very probably those extra tickets from 67 to 79K were made available for the locals.Or they didnt give the exact figure of what they call football family/sponsors/vips...But its more than obvious there werent 18K empty seats.Usually the 2 finalists receive 50-60% of the tickets.An amount very similar to one of the finalists is given to neutrals(usually slightly less-about 50% of those are locals,50% are the winners of that lottery at the beginning of the year-all these fans are at the ooposite stand usually),and the main stand VIP,football family,extra press....Ive been to 3 finals and know how these things work.Actually in the last 8 finals of the Cl I think no official attendance is accurate.
I had the exact figures(not official ones )but i lost it.Maybe i'll find it and give you the real attendances.

[Leedsrule]

Municipal authorities have amended their General Plan for Urban Development to allow the stadium grow higher and wider. In return Real will give extra land for public use. But which design will they choose for their stadium overhaul?

This will allow the stadium to get more commercial space, new facades and a taller roof over the stands.

This was a very important issue blocking any further works as the plot of Bernabeu is already used beyond available surface. Now the club can increase capacity to 90,000 and make more use of commercial activities at the structure.

But in return they are to give the city several plots in the Carabanchel district for public use. Also, the shopping centre adjacent to Real’s stadium is to be destroyed and converted to a green area.

Despite this progress, it’s still unknown which design of the four final submissions should be chosen. Rumors say the club are most keen on the vision by GMP Architekten, but are also impressed by the one by Populous/Lamela. Then again supporters who voted in two independent surveys, both times chose the third one, by Norman Foster. This puts Herzog/de Meuron design last which might be motivated with that team of architects least willing for any alterations of their vision.



Foster + De la Hoz

Sir Norman Foster, creator of new Wembley or the final design for Barcelona this time joined forces with renowned Spanish counterpart Rafael de la Hoz, known mostly for office projects. Their vision sees the current external staircase towers hidden among new office/retail space. Roof would be raised to the west, “opening” the stadium toward Madrid and providing a spectacular open viewing terrace on top of the stands, with room for restaurant and other uses.





Herzog and de Meuron + Moneo

Second team consists of famous Swiss duo 'HdM', creators of Beijing stadium and Allianz Arena, and Rafael Moneo, also great architect (Pritzker winner), this time from Spain.

With no room for retractable roof, this vision emphasises the four towers in current stadium's corners in an attempt to connect future with the past. Between the four structures a new, more elliptical bowl is to be created, covered with translucent cladding. Stands will be enlarged with new level of seating built atop the existing ones. Interestingly, new giant screens are to be integrated into the roof's internal verge.





Populous + Estudio Lamela

Lamela, world-famous Spanish practice, seemed to be monopolists with Bernabeu as they were responsible for all redevelopments for a few decades. Now they teamed up with Populous, global leader in stadium design. Their vision is to preserve almost all of the existing structure, wrapping it with a dynamic lax facade that leaves room inside for future commercial developments under the stands.

All existing seating would seem almost unchanged – 5 tiers staying in place with only luxurious skyboxes and business seats added alongside the pitch.

This vision is the only one leaving room for a retractable roof.




GMP Architekten + L35 Arquitectos + Ribas&Ribas

German GMP architects together with L35 and Ribas (only the first company with significant stadium portfolio) also seek to preserve most of the existing stands, increasing only the seating at the main stand that today is smaller than the surrounding ones. But atop of all the stands a massive ring with 4 floors (!) is to be created for possible skybox/commercial use, with new access routes leading to this part from ground level.

Additionally a commercial centre would adjoin the ground from the west, altogether wrapped in a geometrical shape. Facades resembling horizontal jalousies might become the world's largest screen.



More pictures:
http://stadiumdb.com/news/2012/10/ma...ernabeu_revamp

Favorite?

[RMB2007]

Already has a thread in the proposed section, whilst the people in that thread were very much in favour of Foster's design. The lastest on this development:

http://www.stadiumguide.com/real-mad...abeu-decision/

[Leedsrule]

There probably is but i couldn't find one.

[Almeria]

Disappointing the proposal by Norman Foster... up reduces capacity. Improper of the best architects in the world.

I think that it has been selected by the prestige of his name but has very little common sense

Anyway all projects you are reviewing their respective studies of architecture to adapt them to the urbanity-plan after its adaptation by the City Council.

[LucianPopa1000]

I read somewhere that the capacity will be increased by 11k seats,not just 5k.Its on Santiago Bernabeu thread.Personally i like GMP and Foster designs.They say they will not touch the current seating?too bad.I was at the Bernabeu 2 times plus a tour.The seats are very narroe(18inch-45cm wide),plus the legroom is 0.75m.The legroom is impossible to change,but they should install wider seats everywhere in the stadium,padded seats.

[dinamo_zagreb]

Populous' was one I thought to be the best. Now, when I see this retractable roof, it looks disguisting.

GMP looks like the one.

[carnifex2005]

Without the ugly retractable roof, the Populous one is the best looking.

[thebackdoorman]

Four innovative designs. I think they are all pretty good, though GMP is so far my favorite.

[www.sercan.de]

What was the attendance vs A. Madrid?
I've just found 79,000

[In The End]

Originally Posted by Leedsrule

Municipal authorities have amended their General Plan for Urban Development to allow the stadium grow higher and wider. In return Real will give extra land for public use. But which design will they choose for their stadium overhaul?

This will allow the stadium to get more commercial space, new facades and a taller roof over the stands.

This was a very important issue blocking any further works as the plot of Bernabeu is already used beyond available surface. Now the club can increase capacity to 90,000 and make more use of commercial activities at the structure.

But in return they are to give the city several plots in the Carabanchel district for public use. Also, the shopping centre adjacent to Real’s stadium is to be destroyed and converted to a green area.

Despite this progress, it’s still unknown which design of the four final submissions should be chosen. Rumors say the club are most keen on the vision by GMP Architekten, but are also impressed by the one by Populous/Lamela. Then again supporters who voted in two independent surveys, both times chose the third one, by Norman Foster. This puts Herzog/de Meuron design last which might be motivated with that team of architects least willing for any alterations of their vision.



Foster + De la Hoz

Sir Norman Foster, creator of new Wembley or the final design for Barcelona this time joined forces with renowned Spanish counterpart Rafael de la Hoz, known mostly for office projects. Their vision sees the current external staircase towers hidden among new office/retail space. Roof would be raised to the west, “opening” the stadium toward Madrid and providing a spectacular open viewing terrace on top of the stands, with room for restaurant and other uses.





Herzog and de Meuron + Moneo

Second team consists of famous Swiss duo 'HdM', creators of Beijing stadium and Allianz Arena, and Rafael Moneo, also great architect (Pritzker winner), this time from Spain.

With no room for retractable roof, this vision emphasises the four towers in current stadium's corners in an attempt to connect future with the past. Between the four structures a new, more elliptical bowl is to be created, covered with translucent cladding. Stands will be enlarged with new level of seating built atop the existing ones. Interestingly, new giant screens are to be integrated into the roof's internal verge.





Populous + Estudio Lamela

Lamela, world-famous Spanish practice, seemed to be monopolists with Bernabeu as they were responsible for all redevelopments for a few decades. Now they teamed up with Populous, global leader in stadium design. Their vision is to preserve almost all of the existing structure, wrapping it with a dynamic lax facade that leaves room inside for future commercial developments under the stands.

All existing seating would seem almost unchanged – 5 tiers staying in place with only luxurious skyboxes and business seats added alongside the pitch.

This vision is the only one leaving room for a retractable roof.




GMP Architekten + L35 Arquitectos + Ribas&Ribas

German GMP architects together with L35 and Ribas (only the first company with significant stadium portfolio) also seek to preserve most of the existing stands, increasing only the seating at the main stand that today is smaller than the surrounding ones. But atop of all the stands a massive ring with 4 floors (!) is to be created for possible skybox/commercial use, with new access routes leading to this part from ground level.

Additionally a commercial centre would adjoin the ground from the west, altogether wrapped in a geometrical shape. Facades resembling horizontal jalousies might become the world's largest screen.



More pictures:
http://stadiumdb.com/news/2012/10/ma...ernabeu_revamp

Favorite?

Foster + De La Hoz

[www.sercan.de]

Originally Posted by LucianPopa1000

0,75m legroom on all tiers at the bernabeu.Including the middle 2tiers(the ones that have 9 and 11 rows),and the lower 30something rows.The second tier starts at 12m above pitch,the 3rd(the one added in early 90s starts at 26m).
The seats are all 45cm-18inch wide.Except luxury suites seats.I also kinda counted the seats/tiers.
Lower tier -firts 23 rows aprox 19000 seats
- 9-10 rows aprox 10000 seats
Middle tier -9 rows aprox 9000 seats
11 rows aprox 11000-11500 seats
Upper tier -13 rows aprox 16000 seats
-12 rows aprox 15000 seats
Luxury suites aprox 4000 seats,capacity is about 85000 seats

But if the legroom is 75cm at the 3rd tier, how did they reach 45°?
The rows must be 75cm high. But how?
Max. height of a step is 20cm. Or do they have higher steps in Spain?

[Rossoliver]

That entry by GMP Architekten + L35 Arquitectos + Ribas&Ribas looks a bit like the Metlife Stadium with Madison Square Garden parked on top. I think that and the H&DM entry are the best two designs because there is nothing garish about them, and there is no retractable roof that looks like an afterthought.

[LucianPopa1000]

Originally Posted by www.sercan.de

But if the legroom is 75cm at the 3rd tier, how did they reach 45°?
The rows must be 75cm high. But how?
Max. height of a step is 20cm. Or do they have higher steps in Spain?

There are 3 steps,each 25 cm.Very high i know.Obviously there must be higher steps in Spanish stadiums.Mestalla and some other must have high steps.

[www.sercan.de]

Thanks a lot.
Now i understand how they managed to get 45° by having 75cm legroom

I think now its forbidden in the EU?
Max. is 20cm (in Germany 19cm)

Have you been at the 3rd tier?
25cm is a lot. Really hard to use?

[LucianPopa1000]

Originally Posted by www.sercan.de

Thanks a lot.
Now i understand how they managed to get 45° by having 75cm legroom

I think now its forbidden in the EU?
Max. is 20cm (in Germany 19cm)

Have you been at the 3rd tier?
25cm is a lot. Really hard to use?

Yes i have been at the third tier.Its the cheapest and thats where they housed us away fansI too was amazed on the height of the rows.The 25 cm i think it was borderline.It did feel harder to climb.Not very hard though.Im 5'11 so it was ok.But the legroom feeled smalish,maybe because the seats were fixed.
The Camp Nou is more spacious.
80cm legroom all tiers.And the upper tier is less steep,with longer stairs.
I heard alot of people claiming Old Trafford has very small legroom.Even say picture.I know lots of old english stadia have small legroom.Everton has 68 cm i think,old Wembley 66cm.I gues people were shorter back in the day.

[www.sercan.de]

Do you know why the 3rd tier has got 2 parts?
Just because to add some suites?

Originally Posted by LucianPopa1000

The Camp Nou is more spacious.
80cm legroom all tiers.And the upper tier is less steep,with longer stairs.

Maybe because they planned a 4th tier
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4100/...a01dd8dd_z.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4102/...b9957a7d_b.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4115/...9e2d46b5_b.jpg

[LucianPopa1000]

I think i was divided into 2 smaller tiers because of the steepness.It makes climbing up/down harder when u have to do it for 20+rows.Thats why they chose to have 12-13 rows per section.And of course they added those small suites.I saw videos with the view,not the finest really(i think there weren't suites there initially).I would easily prefer to sit in a lower tier.Actually the best views are from the 8 rows tier and the suites from just behind it.The lower tier has good views to(i took a tour and know).But easily the best views are from the 2 middle tiers.Its high but not nosebleed high.Overall its a majestic design,with a very large capacity in just 45m,very good views from everywhere.The 4th tier(13 rows)has mindbowing views.Very close and high also.
You should visit itMaybe see a german side win there.
As a conclusion,only thing i didnt like is 45 cm wide seats(i have like 54 cm wide shoulders),and smallish legroom.But the biggest problem is width of seats.Too small.And lots of old stadiums have narrow seats(Old Trafford,Anfield,Olimpico Rome...)and they will never change that because it would mean a capacity drop of roughly 10%