Hamad International Airport | T/O

[EmiratesAirline380]

Originally Posted by Halawala

I said "experts from Singapore, Japan, the West, in order to plan how we as Qataris and Qatari based expats are going to live in the future. Here it from me--- they dont know crap" The experts who are hired to design our country lack knowledge about it. [/B]

Yeah I agree and some of those people they hire from the West don't really do much either yet they still take home huge pay checks.

Originally Posted by salman515

I think you need to learn how to read carefully and maybe how to write too... I had to read your post few times to understand what ur trying to say..

+1

[EmiratesAirline380]

Originally Posted by expatwinner

In any other Country a project tripling in cost and 5 years delayed would be a national scandal. Heads would roll. Here there is no accountability. And what is anyone going to do about it. It's not like you can vote anyone out.

Well to be fair, construction materials' cost surged in 2007, so that is a big reason why the cost probably increased.

[gevorika78]

Is it only me, or does the airports interior looks so dark? there's not much natural light?

[weld el dafna]

Originally Posted by gevorika78

Is it only me, or does the airports interior looks so dark? there's not much natural light?

It's only you only if you think it's bright enough xD

[expatwinner]

I think the problem here HAS to be more fundamental than that and honestly as much as I agree with a lot of what Halawala says I don't think this can be blames on ex-pats.

Of course they came up with the plans for the airport (for example) but they would have been provided from an tender that was asked for by the planning committee.

Now in the example of the airport perhaps they were asked to only provide for 44 (estimated hard contact gates anyone know the exact number?) and they came up with a plan for exactly that.

Now the argument that no one expected the airline to grow so fast and as big is ridiculous. Al Bakkar was given the money and the goal of competing on a Global scale, the airport should have been built with global scale in mind PLUS the ability for it to grow and expand over time.

Now we will never know if there were plans a bigger more ambitious airport and we also don't know who took the decision to build it on reclaimed land that leaves NO space for further expansion. The problem is though that NO ONE had the vision to see far enough into the future to head off the problem.

NOW tell me this. Have a quick flight over to Dubai, have a quick look at their road system. The newest roads are well built and well thought out. Entry and Exits are clear and traffic flows easily (I know traffic is bad still but imagine Dubai traffic on Doha's roads)

Now come back to Doha and tell me that "expats" took the decisions that have led the D ring being the utter farce that it is. I refuse the believe that ANY foreign company would ever have advised that the roads be designed as they are. As we know the D ring took 5 years to build and the German contractors were thrown off the project. Now look at it! are you telling me whoever took over improved the German's plans?

Come on
The fact is Qatar seems unwilling or somehow unable to contract good enough people to design, build and maintain any of their projects.

Now they do have education city I grant you, but perhaps there they really did hire expats but perhaps they actually paid good money for these and perhaps SOMEONE had the sense to ACTUALLY listen to them.

Here is your problem, there is supposed to be a vision for 2030, but what is that vision? at the moment it looks to me like there will be more of the same. Where is the grand vision for the Country, The World Cup is not a vision, it will mearly divert URGENTLY needed resources from VITAL infrastructure works. If there is a vision, tell me when will they remove sports roundabout? when will they remove the bottlenecks on the D ring, why do they build traffic lights when ONLY an underpass will do?

There has to be a problem at the top. The Emir may be a great man but he seems to have no one that he can rely on to carry out any of his visions or grand plans.

Dubai's advantage is when Al Maktoum has a vision his people know exactly who to call to achieve that vision.

Tell me this. Is there ANYTHING in Qatar that gives you the same feeling.

Sorry for being off topic, but blaming expats is a very easy way of diverting blame away from those who really deserve it. As I say any where else those people would be named and shamed, and they certainly would not remain in their jobs.

[Halawala]

Originally Posted by expatwinner

I think the problem here HAS to be more fundamental than that and honestly as much as I agree with a lot of what Halawala says I don't think this can be blames on ex-pats.

Of course they came up with the plans for the airport (for example) but they would have been provided from an tender that was asked for by the planning committee.

Now in the example of the airport perhaps they were asked to only provide for 44 (estimated hard contact gates anyone know the exact number?) and they came up with a plan for exactly that.

Now the argument that no one expected the airline to grow so fast and as big is ridiculous. Al Bakkar was given the money and the goal of competing on a Global scale, the airport should have been built with global scale in mind PLUS the ability for it to grow and expand over time.

Now we will never know if there were plans a bigger more ambitious airport and we also don't know who took the decision to build it on reclaimed land that leaves NO space for further expansion. The problem is though that NO ONE had the vision to see far enough into the future to head off the problem.

NOW tell me this. Have a quick flight over to Dubai, have a quick look at their road system. The newest roads are well built and well thought out. Entry and Exits are clear and traffic flows easily (I know traffic is bad still but imagine Dubai traffic on Doha's roads)

Now come back to Doha and tell me that "expats" took the decisions that have led the D ring being the utter farce that it is. I refuse the believe that ANY foreign company would ever have advised that the roads be designed as they are. As we know the D ring took 5 years to build and the German contractors were thrown off the project. Now look at it! are you telling me whoever took over improved the German's plans?

Come on
The fact is Qatar seems unwilling or somehow unable to contract good enough people to design, build and maintain any of their projects.

Now they do have education city I grant you, but perhaps there they really did hire expats but perhaps they actually paid good money for these and perhaps SOMEONE had the sense to ACTUALLY listen to them.

Here is your problem, there is supposed to be a vision for 2030, but what is that vision? at the moment it looks to me like there will be more of the same. Where is the grand vision for the Country, The World Cup is not a vision, it will mearly divert URGENTLY needed resources from VITAL infrastructure works. If there is a vision, tell me when will they remove sports roundabout? when will they remove the bottlenecks on the D ring, why do they build traffic lights when ONLY an underpass will do?

There has to be a problem at the top. The Emir may be a great man but he seems to have no one that he can rely on to carry out any of his visions or grand plans.

Dubai's advantage is when Al Maktoum has a vision his people know exactly who to call to achieve that vision.

Tell me this. Is there ANYTHING in Qatar that gives you the same feeling.

Sorry for being off topic, but blaming expats is a very easy way of diverting blame away from those who really deserve it. As I say any where else those people would be named and shamed, and they certainly would not remain in their jobs.

+10000

I think you nailed it.

Im not blaming expats. Infact Im blaming the newbies who do not know how to design for us (us being Qataris and Expat Qataris). There are many expats in Qatar who are more suitable to design our roads than these outsiders. Equally Im blaming Qataris as well for their lack of forsight, contracting skills, and planning capablities.

The World Cup actually will force Qatar to do its infrastructure; it does not have a choice. However, the people running Asghal (the Public Works Authority) do not know how to run it effectively. All the roads were designed for the present--not the future.

Just open the newspapers; youll see these multi-billion dollar projects run by Ashghal. If you give a company billions and they cant properly use it; its like giving them 2 bucks. Worthless.

I think The Amir's vision personally is bigger than Dubai with all due respect to the leadership of Dubai. During the previous Amir, we were living in a stagnant country--a terrible infrastructure and literally sand and water (thats it)

Now it has changed so much that I feel that its a different country. People here (locals and nonlocals) LOVE this country from their heart--something that wasnt the case back then for some part.

[weld el dafna]

I totally blame the Government for the delay. They made the studies; they assigned the firms and committees.
BY the way, we will start voting people out by Oct 2013. I'm so waiting for it "Ashgal" xD
___

We do have a very visionary leader.
Doha and Dubai are not the same. You cannot compare them to each other, because you basically cannot compare apples to oranges.
An orange will never be an apple no matter how much it grew and blossomed.
each is unique in its own way.

As i see it Doha will be more like London in the future, while Dubai will be more like Honk Kong maybe.
To my opinion, Qatar and AD as well both have a long term vision. You can see it in their projects. Education city, Mushaireb projects . . etc. which is only natural when they have hydro-carbon economies to support such projects. while Dubai's are more short-term and meant to make profits fast. why building one palm island when i can build THREE?!
Each has its own goals and visions.
But we certainly need more accountability and transparency,
Qatar transparency rank has been going down from 19 in 2010 to 22 in 2011, and this year we are 27!!

[expatwinner]

"Just open the newspapers; youll see these multi-billion dollar projects run by Ashghal. If you give a company billions and they cant properly use it; its like giving them 2 bucks. Worthless."


That is an absolutely fantastic comment, sums it up.

Weld, I don't think Doha will ever become London, I think the best Doha could aim for is a "Dubai Lite" Dubai will NEVER be Hong Kong either, no matter how much they want to be neither City will ever be attractive enough to become the kind of "hub" that they imagine.

You can absolutely compare Doha and Dubai, the vision is very different but the circumstances are very similar.

Both were essentially blank canvases, and both are run in such a way that the leaders are responsible for the KEY decisions, big things don't happen (Education City, Burj Khalifa) without their say. The money situation is not equal, Dubai has less.

But Dubai has achieved much more with less. That has to be a lesson for Doha. And town planning although still poor in Dubai is streets ahead.

Voting for leaders of large organisations such as Ashgal would be an excellent plan and a very good way of bringing accountability to the process. Look at Dubai after the financial crisis, many Sheik's were moved out of their roles, some very publicly.

In the case of the airport whoever signed off on the plans should go. It doesn't matter now about the delays the problem is it's already too small. And it's not even open. It would be fascinating to know if bigger plans were on the table.

No one can fault the vision of the Emir, but I think we can all say the execution leaves much to be desired. It's still early days in Doha, things could be turned around, the first step to this turnaround it to ADMIT mistakes have been made.

[salman515]

It would be awesome if they decide all of the sudden to open after tomorrow
12-12-12 is two days away


some photos from CDC construction website, I dont know how old are they




















they have more photos in their website but they are older...
http://www.cdc-qatar.com/projects/pr...=6&galleryId=9

[weld el dafna]

thnx for sharing the pix Slaman btw, what u know and what i know is wrong xD i knew it's a rumor !!! xD

[mj12]

Originally Posted by weld el dafna

thnx for sharing the pix Slaman btw, what u know and what i know is wrong xD i knew it's a rumor !!! xD

Lol, i got it on my bbm too poor people ..

Thanx salman

[Alrayyan]

Not even a symbolic opening

[love-qatar]

Amazing, I love the pic

The Airport should open Tomorrow

[gevorika78]

Originally Posted by expatwinner

"Just open the newspapers; youll see these multi-billion dollar projects run by Ashghal. If you give a company billions and they cant properly use it; its like giving them 2 bucks. Worthless."


That is an absolutely fantastic comment, sums it up.

Weld, I don't think Doha will ever become London, I think the best Doha could aim for is a "Dubai Lite" Dubai will NEVER be Hong Kong either, no matter how much they want to be neither City will ever be attractive enough to become the kind of "hub" that they imagine.

You can absolutely compare Doha and Dubai, the vision is very different but the circumstances are very similar.

Both were essentially blank canvases, and both are run in such a way that the leaders are responsible for the KEY decisions, big things don't happen (Education City, Burj Khalifa) without their say. The money situation is not equal, Dubai has less.

But Dubai has achieved much more with less. That has to be a lesson for Doha. And town planning although still poor in Dubai is streets ahead.

Voting for leaders of large organisations such as Ashgal would be an excellent plan and a very good way of bringing accountability to the process. Look at Dubai after the financial crisis, many Sheik's were moved out of their roles, some very publicly.

In the case of the airport whoever signed off on the plans should go. It doesn't matter now about the delays the problem is it's already too small. And it's not even open. It would be fascinating to know if bigger plans were on the table.

No one can fault the vision of the Emir, but I think we can all say the execution leaves much to be desired. It's still early days in Doha, things could be turned around, the first step to this turnaround it to ADMIT mistakes have been made.

Dubai/Hongkong? there were never plans for Dubai to be Hong Kong, not that I've read/heard off at least. Maybe Singapore, yes Dubai learned a lot from Singapore. But in any case, comparing them though isn't valid!! one is 41 years old and the other is 170ish years old. And if we are comparing them on the bases of "Air hubs" Dubai International surpassed Hong Kong - here are the latest number http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%2...senger_traffic

[expatwinner]

Apart from all this other talk I do think the airport looks like being pretty good. I have followed it from the start and I am really excited to see it finished. Fingers crossed it will be a success. The problem as we have discussed is it's too small for the purpose which was to create a hub that would be recognized globally. That is a shame.

Dubai will never be Singapore, never. Just as Doha will never pass Dubai.

Both cities are in the wrong location and are run in ways that will NEVER allow them to become a Singapore or Hong Kong. The reasons for this are also complicated but but include the governorship of the respective Countries which results in monopolies for families and connected people. Culturally too the region is too conservative to create the type of vibrant attractive cities that create organic growth attracts the type of people that make Cities a success.

Also the don't forget what a difference that the well educated hard working and motivated local work force makes to changing the face of those Cities. Doha lacks a strong "merchant" class that keeps Cities going in both good and bad times.

Ultimately that could explain Doha's relative failure compared to Dubai. Dubai (in the boom times) sucked all the "air" out of the region and pulled in the type of people it needed to make it's self a success. Doha suffered by comparison. It simply couldn't compete with Dubai's relative "heat"

Now with some of the air knocked out of Dubai, Doha might have a chance to attract the right people to help build a successful small well run City. Time will tell. Many mistakes have been made but there is still plenty of time to fix them. As I say the first step must be to admit mistakes were made.

[weld el dafna]

Originally Posted by mj12

Lol, i got it on my bbm too poor people ..

Thanx salman

loool, ee, the same
t5ayal yefte7oona ?!

Originally Posted by Alrayyan

Not even a symbolic opening

didn't they stick to the date for the Amiri terminal wel cargo?!
maybe it's the one called Hamad bin khalife since he's the one who would use it xD

[salman515]

I don't see why they can't open the amiri terminal. If the tower is ready and so is the terminal ....

[Alrayyan]

Besides, doesn't the leadership want to use a brand new dedicated airport terminal for them

[gevorika78]

Originally Posted by expatwinner

Apart from all this other talk I do think the airport looks like being pretty good. I have followed it from the start and I am really excited to see it finished. Fingers crossed it will be a success. The problem as we have discussed is it's too small for the purpose which was to create a hub that would be recognized globally. That is a shame.

Dubai will never be Singapore, never. Just as Doha will never pass Dubai.

Both cities are in the wrong location and are run in ways that will NEVER allow them to become a Singapore or Hong Kong. The reasons for this are also complicated but but include the governorship of the respective Countries which results in monopolies for families and connected people. Culturally too the region is too conservative to create the type of vibrant attractive cities that create organic growth attracts the type of people that make Cities a success.

Also the don't forget what a difference that the well educated hard working and motivated local work force makes to changing the face of those Cities. Doha lacks a strong "merchant" class that keeps Cities going in both good and bad times.

Ultimately that could explain Doha's relative failure compared to Dubai. Dubai (in the boom times) sucked all the "air" out of the region and pulled in the type of people it needed to make it's self a success. Doha suffered by comparison. It simply couldn't compete with Dubai's relative "heat"

Now with some of the air knocked out of Dubai, Doha might have a chance to attract the right people to help build a successful small well run City. Time will tell. Many mistakes have been made but there is still plenty of time to fix them. As I say the first step must be to admit mistakes were made.

Again, Who said Dubai wants to be Hong Kong or Singapore??? who said that Doha wants to be London. you made up a story and you countered argued yourself. Some of the air knocked out of Dubai?!! Yeah the world went through a crises, and Europe is still on one, but that doesn't mean that Dubai is out!! are your thoughts based on any numbers? not really. Please read this http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...54675689,d.d2k

[expatwinner]

Originally Posted by gevorika78

Again, Who said Dubai wants to be Hong Kong or Singapore??? who said that Doha wants to be London. you made up a story and you countered argued yourself. Some of the air knocked out of Dubai?!! Yeah the world went through a crises, and Europe is still on one, but that doesn't mean that Dubai is out!! are your thoughts based on any numbers? not really. Please read this http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...54675689,d.d2k

I said "some of the air" I did not say Dubai was down and out. The figures in that report are visitor numbers, they come in at number 8 but visitor spend they are 18, indicating as most people know that Dubai is very good at encouraging transit passengers to stay over for a couple of nights.

So If Dubai's ambition was not to be a regional Hong Kong or Singapore what is the point of the DIFC or a Global airline, Dubai is trying to compete at that level and my point is it simply won't achieve what those cities have achieved.

Anyway this is a discussion about an airport not relative City strength, I went off topic first so sorry about that. Back to the airport.