Co-op HQ | One Angel Square | 72.5m | 17 Floors

[LongRipple]

The FSA still have reservations and it needs final ratification by HM Treasury and European regulators (although they demanded the sale of Lloyds in the first place so shouldn't be too much of a problem). The whole deal must be signed off by Novemebr 2013.

Either way I'm sure there will have been much mutual backslapping (the only mutality business practice George ever engages with!) between George and the Co-op over this deal with George not wanting a heavily indebted Nationalised bank on his balance sheet and a Co-operative Group (reasonably isolated from the toxic mortgage crisis) doing the old fashioned thing of buying assets during a recession.

[Schooner]

Originally Posted by LongRipple

The FSA still have reservations and it needs final ratification by HM Treasury and European regulators (although they demanded the sale of Lloyds in the first place so shouldn't be too much of a problem). The whole deal must be signed off by Novemebr 2013.

Either way I'm sure there will have been much mutual backslapping (the only mutality business practice George ever engages with!) between George and the Co-op over this deal with George not wanting a heavily indebted Nationalised bank on his balance sheet and a Co-operative Group (reasonably isolated from the toxic mortgage crisis) doing the old fashioned thing of buying assets during a recession.

I thought the FSA had been disbanded,but maybe I am mistaken.

[LongRipple]

Originally Posted by Schooner

I thought the FSA had been disbanded,but maybe I am mistaken.

Final transferrence to the new Financial Conduct Authority by January 2013 whose remit, I imagine, is much the same.

Someone was playing around with the coloured lighting system on the new HQ on Thursday night which can be altered to run through the spectrum rather than the fixed blue.

It created a bit of a Christmas tree bauble out of the building!

[Rip the Mancunian]

Originally Posted by LongRipple

Someone was playing around with the coloured lighting system on the new HQ on Thursday night which can be altered to run through the spectrum rather than the fixed blue.

It created a bit of a Christmas tree bauble out of the building!

It's running through the colours of the different Group businesses: Green (Food & Farms), Blue (Bank & Electrical), Turquoise (Pharmacy), Orange (Travel), Red (Legal) and Purple (Funeralcare). Unfortunately they missed out grey/white (Motors) and pink (Childcare). Half-arsed job if you ask me.

It'd be nice if they actually fixed the important stuff so that we could move in.

[Bachy Soletanche]

[Rational Plan]

Originally Posted by LNGCats

I mean we are screwed until we pay down massively the private debt and banks recapitalise. It will take years.

Long term we need the private and public debts paid down and millions of new houses built and some at low prices, bringing down average house prices - which puts more pressure on the banks.

Whether the houses are built inner city or in suburbs is not really that important when discussing the economic issues, the reality is both are probably needed and both would create much needed economic activity right now.

It might not take as long as you think. Private household debt in the UK has shrunk from 140% less than three years ago to just under 120% now, one of the best improvements in the OECD. It's this deleveraging that makes the economy feel so flat until people start spending again it will remain so.

But the low interest rates interest rates that prevent mass mortgage repossessions are also not encouraging saving so people are sensibly paying off debts. People want to two incompatible things. They want people to spend and banks to lend but at the same time for debt to paid off. It can't happen.

But things might not be as gloomy as some people think. Job growth has been strong, despite the anemic growth. The private sector traded wage cuts for maintaining jobs and the public sector did the opposite. But though there will be years of low public sector spending the rate of job losses in this area will start to decline. There are signs also that wage inflation is starting to poke its head above the ground.

Though they won't say it, what the system needs is a bit of inflation to kill those debts. They'd prefer it to come from wage inflation rather than consumers prices though, as people feel better that way.

Inflation of 5% for example would halve the value of your debt (also your savings) in around 15 years. So if you had a £50,000 mortgage and a £50,000 house in 15 years your house was worth £100,000 and your debt stayed the same you would now have 50% equity. Obviously the higher interest rate that came with 5% inflation might sink a few people so it's not easy.

Though people tend not think so in this country, the UK as a whole was spared the ravages of the 30's depression because of the massive amounts of house building at the time. This was a combination of mortgage being available for with less than 25% deposit, low interest rates (it was the depression) and few planning controls, so building land was cheap.

But a relaxation of planning controls cuts both ways, it could mean more houses in the countryside, but it could also mean it was easy for a developer to buy up half a dozen semis and bulldoze them for new blocks of flats.

[Rational Plan]

Originally Posted by nicky2tu

For one last time Manchester is not responsible for the current financial downturn it is merely its victim. Revisionist bankers coming on here saying its people who want to build homes and or people who want to rent or own them are to blame is complete and utter tosh. Banker greed and, in many cases, downright criminal behaviour, is the root cause of the problem. To be clear: this is a financial crises in which there has been a massive write down of assets resulting in a sever lack of liquidity in the banking system. Or, to put it another way minimal capital available for investment. Despite QE bankers are refusing to use the liquidity generated to provide SMB loans preferring to invest in a commodity assets bubble in the hope of improving their battered balance sheets. If it helps think of it that the banks are really bust and are on life support by the tax payer.

The city's population boomed in the last decade -the first time for many decades. The boom in property building in the last decade is a reflection of the need for the city to accommodate more workers. This was a very good thing IMO. The fact that this has now stopped was NOT due to over supply it is because the banks won't / can't lend. End of. It is not due to giddy home investors as some would have us believe.

Cats likes to position himself as the sober realist vs the utopian dreamers. In reality he is an intellectual lightweight with an outdated attraction for wooden bureaucratic top down authoritarian management models. Evidence : just look at the Metrolink threads - a constant apologist for Purdy and his team which is so embarrassingly servile it makes me whince every time I read him. He is very like the people you suspect listen to Radio 5. Enough said.

It's easy to blame the bankers, but the politicians are just as much to blame.

The principle problem is that interest rates were just too low for too long. That meant borrowing was cheap and that saving did not give enough returns.

The principle reason for this state affairs has been central bankers continual striving to avoid a recession or financial crises. The principle method they did this was to slash interest rates. So in the Asian 1997 financial crises resulted i lower rates to cover the banks losses. The dotcom crash; lets slash rates! September 2001. cut those rates again. Or back in Britain in 2003 the housing market was sputtering prices starting to fall, and suddenly Gordon Brown changed the inflation measure that the BOE was following and suddenly interest rate fell 2% in plenty of time for the 2005 election.

Or the reaction to arrival of China into the global economy was another mistake. All those low priced goods flooding the market meant that inflation across the West collapsed. People muttered about the dark effects of deflation and so interest rates were cut again, rather than deal with consequences of the deflation.

The media, business and unions are just as much to blame decrying every interest rate rise and always calling for lower interest rates.

Everyone is blaming each other but most countries all did the same thing instead of a smaller recession in the early 2000's clearing out the dead wood we kept propping it up until the imbalances crushed us.

[marvin hagler]

Originally Posted by Rational Plan

It's easy to blame the bankers, but the politicians are just as much to blame.

The principle problem is that interest rates were just too low for too long. That meant borrowing was cheap and that saving did not give enough returns.

The principle reason for this state affairs has been central bankers continual striving to avoid a recession or financial crises. The principle method they did this was to slash interest rates. So in the Asian 1997 financial crises resulted i lower rates to cover the banks losses. The dotcom crash; lets slash rates! September 2001. cut those rates again. Or back in Britain in 2003 the housing market was sputtering prices starting to fall, and suddenly Gordon Brown changed the inflation measure that the BOE was following and suddenly interest rate fell 2% in plenty of time for the 2005 election.

Or the reaction to arrival of China into the global economy was another mistake. All those low priced goods flooding the market meant that inflation across the West collapsed. People muttered about the dark effects of deflation and so interest rates were cut again, rather than deal with consequences of the deflation.

The media, business and unions are just as much to blame decrying every interest rate rise and always calling for lower interest rates.

Everyone is blaming each other but most countries all did the same thing instead of a smaller recession in the early 2000's clearing out the dead wood we kept propping it up until the imbalances crushed us.

Central banks set interest rates, and if they had not been cut, there'd have been mayhem

I agree banks are not to blame for the crisis. It's systemic and much deeper than a few incompetents - they've always been there

[LongRipple]

Originally Posted by Rip the Mancunian

It's running through the colours of the different Group businesses: Green (Food & Farms), Blue (Bank & Electrical), Turquoise (Pharmacy), Orange (Travel), Red (Legal) and Purple (Funeralcare). Unfortunately they missed out grey/white (Motors) and pink (Childcare). Half-arsed job if you ask me.

Perhaps that also explains the gaudy new giant electronic advertising hoarding on Miller Street surrounded by 1980's DJ booth lighting tubing?

I hope they just stick to the blue which looks pretty classy- although if Gideon Osbourne opening the new HQ statement is true I may, unfortunately, forever equate it to the Tory Blue rather than that of the Co-op Group!

[Train Guard]

Originally Posted by Rational Plan

It might not take as long as you think. Though people tend not think so in this country, the UK as a whole was spared the ravages of the 30's depression because of the massive amounts of house building at the time. This was a combination of mortgage being available for with less than 25% deposit, low interest rates (it was the depression) and few planning controls, so building land was cheap. But a relaxation of planning controls cuts both ways, it could mean more houses in the countryside, but it could also mean it was easy for a developer to buy up half a dozen semis and bulldoze them for new blocks of flats.

Actually, the key factors were the low level of commodity prices, which resulted in higher levels of disposable income amongst those skilled workers that were in work, and also the development of new industrial sectors. As much of the unemployment was structural (mining, heavy engineering, iron and steel, cotton etc.) there was expansion in new industries (aviation, consumer durables, automobiles, chemicals/plastics/ synthetic fabrics etc.). Housing in many places boomed...Coventry and Welwyn Garden City are classic examples. Train Guard

[Rational Plan]

Originally Posted by marvin hagler

Central banks set interest rates, and if they had not been cut, there'd have been mayhem

I agree banks are not to blame for the crisis. It's systemic and much deeper than a few incompetents - they've always been there

With the benefit of hindsight, it's easy for me to say they should have had a recession in 2003, but if you look back at the various debt levels at the time, the impact would have been much reduced.

Banks in the UK only began to lend more debt than they had in deposits in 2005, UK household debt was still around the 100% at the time. A lot of the worst imbalances had not got out of hand. A recession then would have been a repeat of the 90's.

The British banking industry would have had to make some bad debt provisions, but nothing out of line of previous recessions.

How many retail chains would still be here because they did not have time to load themselves with more debt?

The business cycle still exists, there are still shocks to the system. In reality it is a forlorn hope that anyone will learn anything and that attempting to manipulate the economy often makes things worse in the long run.

[mr.cool]

Angel Street is now open to traffic as you can see on the latest webcam..

[Owl.]

That really is a beautifully designed building. I remember when I saw the building in real life for the first time, I was surprised by the sheer size of the thing; although looking at pictures like the one above, I don't know why I was.

[nq]

Originally Posted by mr.cool

Angel Street is now open to traffic as you can see on the latest webcam..

*goes for a drive*


http://www.co-operative.coop/estates...ilding/webcam/

[Tony_H1]

Had a walk around myself today, its smart. Took a few crappy photos aswel which I will post later

Did notice some old dear heading up the wrong side of Miller Street earlier too with all the other traffic heading towards her...

#Facepalm

[LongRipple]

New Public Square opened today as well. Rest of the road on schedule to be finished by April 2013.

http://www.engage.coop/default.aspx?page=5

[js1000]

Originally Posted by nq

*goes for a drive*


http://www.co-operative.coop/estates...ilding/webcam/

A rare piece of genuinely exciting architecture indeed compared with the 'clad-it with anything' mentality that is so commonplace these days. Having seen it in the flesh, I like piloti-style plinth which accentuates the building's shape. Scary how some think this is 'superb' below

[ferge]

I just worry that the future phases will be so banal in comparison to this and overall create a rather dull area (but I hope I am wrong). I am fully aware that not every build in this development can have the same money thrown at it as the Co-Op - but I do hope that we get complimentary buildings that create a very exciting place rather then an all filler, 1 killer approach.

[Slow Burn]

I don´t know what that building is that js1000 posted and don´t care as it´s not at all relevant.

Also never heard the mantra, ´all filler, one killer´before. We learn something everyday.

this building looks great and I´m sure the whole development looks great. the key is getting it right at street level. Anyone got any pics of Angel Square? Can´t get a proper perspective from the aerial shots.

[VDB]

I don't think we should worry too much about the potential surrounding buildings on this site. In my limited experience, I find office blocks are often very high quality builds - as opposed to residential/hotel/everything else which is/are often built on the cheap with cheap cladding and plastic all round.

The massing renders for this site look good anyway.