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Old December 10th, 2012, 05:04 PM   #4441
jehyrson
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Just like what they did to the Mindanao railway project. Nagpa feasibility study pa pero sa huli sasabihin lang ng DOTC(under Mar Roxas) na mahal daw at hindi pa handa ang Mindanao pero yung extension ng MRT/LTR patungong Cavite may go signal kaagad kahit mas mahal pa sa Mindanao railway project. Well, good luck on that BRT project under this administration.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 01:59 AM   #4442
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just like what happened din to Panay railways diba? CMIIW
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Old December 11th, 2012, 03:03 AM   #4443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakasaurus View Post
So what's your point? We'd swallow PNoy's unclear reasons over the pre-FS and the full "feasibility" study results?

The issue of roads being narrow and all these technical and engineering problems have their own solutions that are of course included in the study which found it to be feasible.

In addition, you seem to have a garbled idea of a FS or preFS with your James and John example. FS and preFS were done in CEbu! Using Cebu's transport needs data! In the context of implementing it in Cebu! So your point is irrelevant.

Lastly, do you know how much is the governments counterpart in the funding?
Why would this project take away from others when the funding was secured from agencies that are for the BRT solution, and specifically for this project. It's not that PNoy can take the funding for the Conditional Cash doleouts!

Reading from your post, the main issue is that you are not convinced that Cebu's mass public transport is an urgent matter, which is understandable because you're not living there. Just like our president.
The point I was driving at is exactly what Mr Paul Villarete pointed out either.

You said that the road that are narrow is already included in the study that are found feasible. Why does it need to have a feasibility study that cost 10billion peso for if it has been established that BRT already works for mainstream Cebu Traffic and the transportation issue? Ofcourse having narrow road isn't necessarily a deterent to a project, if you can't go wider because of the establishments build up along the road, another way is to go vertical either above or under. That's given, but, that ofcourse isn't part of the ideal BRT project.


You talk as if I oppose BRT which is totally ridiculus and absurd because I am also supportive of the project. The difference is, I understand that, the Philippine goverment do not have that funding to fund all projects and they have to prioritize projects in the midst of their effort for economic development. MCIA makes sense along with anything that would directly address tourism and industrial trade because it is vital to economic development. I never once said that BRT should not be given consideration. That's even stupid to think that. All I was saying, hopefully, in the next fiscal year, BRT should also be given priority because the City needs it. What makes your point more credible or relevant than mine if I may ask? I'm guessing you're an economic expert or a city planner by profession?

On your last statement, the answer is still prioritization. There are other projects that is needed to be addressed. Ones that are already established and is sure to get the positive result and not another trial project for feasibility study. Again, I do hope BRT would added in the next agenda. It was not sacked right? The word is defered which means, there is still a big chance for it if the local politicos would lobby for it even more in Malacanang. I support Mr Zidlakan most definitely in his effort to get this project up and going. I never said it's a lost hope have I???

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Originally Posted by al_rayan View Post
parang ayaw ata pansinin ni pnoy ang syudad na pinansin ni ate glo...hehehehehehe...politics talaga..tsk tsk tsk...
If this is true and if we are to follow this logice. why did he approve the MCIA T2 development plan along with other Cebu projects under this administration?

Last edited by mwg12a; December 11th, 2012 at 03:10 AM.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 04:23 AM   #4444
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besides, pinoy won convincingly in cebu...

anyway, pnoy is not the president of cebu only. he has to balance our meager resources and prioritize what is necessary for the good of the whole country.

the 10 billion he will provide for the BRT will mean depriving another philippine province somewhere of funding for their own project. this means the BRT should be fool-proof, fail-safe, well-thought out because this is indeed a multibillion peso experiment.

think of that.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 05:56 AM   #4445
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Cost

The BRT is projected to cost P9.076 billion (US$212 million), which can be broken down as capital or physical cost (P6.694 billion or US$156 million), resettlement and land acquisition (P1.044 billion or US$25 million) and project management and coordination (P1.337 billion or US$31 million).

It will be jointly financed by Agence Francaise de Development (AFD) with $52 million; the World Bank at $110 million; Clean Technology Fund, a non-government organization (NGO) that deals with environment-friendly projects, $25 million; and the Philippine Government with $25 million.

http://www.sunstar.com.ph/cebu/local...icc-nod-255333

IMO:money's not an issue! it's the administration if you ask me.
(of course dili jud na nila e defere ang MCIA kay plan jud na sa government na mag build and expand ang mga airports sa tibuok pilipinas, so, dili nlng nato labot-laboton ang MCIA ani na issue. BRT is different! wala mani sya sa manila, mao nang wala silay salig kay tuo guro nila dili pata ready or lrt lang jud ang ganahan sa president...sucks)
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Old December 11th, 2012, 06:55 AM   #4446
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Exactly my point!!

The BRT does not cannibalize from the MCIA (well for the most part of it) because the government would only be doling out c. 10% if the project cost or around 1B pesos. The majority of the funding will be sourced out from agencies that are interested in re project in the first place and expressed their support because it's the first BRT in the country. The MCIA project itself will have its own funding story and its already all over the news that a lot of private entities are rearing to fund it. Well I'd like to point outgrow BRT and the airport are different stories but that would probably be not so relevant to my point here.

Why are you buying into this mentality that I have already anticipated that just because the airport got approved then BRT can take a back seat! Exactly what PNoy wanted you to believe.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 07:04 AM   #4447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakasaurus View Post
Exactly my point!!

The BRT does not cannibalize from the MCIA (well for the most part of it) because the government would only be doling out c. 10% if the project cost or around 1B pesos. The majority of the funding will be sourced out from agencies that are interested in re project in the first place and expressed their support because it's the first BRT in the country. The MCIA project itself will have its own funding story and its already all over the news that a lot of private entities are rearing to fund it. Well I'd like to point outgrow BRT and the airport are different stories but that would probably be not so relevant to my point here.

Why are you buying into this mentality that I have already anticipated that just because the airport got approved then BRT can take a back seat! Exactly what PNoy wanted you to believe.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 10:58 AM   #4448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwg12a

The point I was driving at is exactly what Mr Paul Villarete pointed out either.

You said that the road that are narrow is already included in the study that are found feasible. Why does it need to have a feasibility study that cost 10billion peso for if it has been established that BRT already works for mainstream Cebu Traffic and the transportation issue? Ofcourse having narrow road isn't necessarily a deterent to a project, if you can't go wider because of the establishments build up along the road, another way is to go vertical either above or under. That's given, but, that ofcourse isn't part of the ideal BRT project.

You talk as if I oppose BRT which is totally ridiculus and absurd because I am also supportive of the project. The difference is, I understand that, the Philippine goverment do not have that funding to fund all projects and they have to prioritize projects in the midst of their effort for economic development. MCIA makes sense along with anything that would directly address tourism and industrial trade because it is vital to economic development. I never once said that BRT should not be given consideration. That's even stupid to think that. All I was saying, hopefully, in the next fiscal year, BRT should also be given priority because the City needs it. What makes your point more credible or relevant than mine if I may ask? I'm guessing you're an economic expert or a city planner by profession?

On your last statement, the answer is still prioritization. There are other projects that is needed to be addressed. Ones that are already established and is sure to get the positive result and not another trial project for feasibility study. Again, I do hope BRT would added in the next agenda. It was not sacked right? The word is defered which means, there is still a big chance for it if the local politicos would lobby for it even more in Malacanang. I support Mr Zidlakan most definitely in his effort to get this project up and going. I never said it's a lost hope have I???

If this is true and if we are to follow this logice. why did he approve the MCIA T2 development plan along with other Cebu projects under this administration?
Bai I apologize if I sounded too harsh. Got nothing against you. But I'll keep it short:

1. Check your facts. What 10 B pesos for a FS!?
2. Understand that all major transport projects need to pass preFS and FS. LRT and MRT and whatever, there is no such thing as proven, but it has to be studied in the local context every single time. I think you misunderstand what an FS is for.
3. Which exactly was sir Paul's point that you are driving at?
4. I didn't say you were against BRT. I'm just saying you don't really care that much about local transpo problems in Cebu so you don't feel the urgency. But of course, that is completely understandable and I don't hold that against you. What I just don't like us hearing something like "it's okay if it's deferred because its not really that important for now" from a relative outsider. Because you are only at the "periphery" (to borrow your word) of this issue, you can't really sympathize fully with our frustration. This is why it's a little annoying to me when you try to be assuring but in the process, become a little too uncaring about our plight.

If I hear a Cebuano who tries to rationalize this to make it more palatable I could understand. But to hear it from you makes me think you really don't care at all.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 11:43 AM   #4449
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when will be the next neda meeting? i hope this will be included in the next meeting's agenda. affected ba ni sa election ban?

since this is oda funded NG will still give a guarantee for the loans.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 11:53 AM   #4450
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again, pnoy is not the president of cebu only.

bear in mind that 10 billion given to us is 10 billion less for other projects in the country.

besides, why are we not hearing a much louder outcry from cebuanos outside this forum on the deferment? maybe we have not even convinced the cebuano people. kulang pa ang info drive/campaign. how can we expect to convince non-cebuanos when even the general cebuano population are not totally sold to it?

the BRT should never fail, otherwise it would be a waste of taxpayers money. that's why we have to really make sure that we have every bases covered. thinking about it, im not even sure if BRT can really work even in escario. nag-aalangan nga ako na araw araw akong bumabyahe papuntang capitol via escario, ano pa kaya ang presidente?
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Old December 11th, 2012, 11:56 AM   #4451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jehyrson View Post
Just like what they did to the Mindanao railway project. Nagpa feasibility study pa pero sa huli sasabihin lang ng DOTC(under Mar Roxas) na mahal daw at hindi pa handa ang Mindanao pero yung extension ng MRT/LTR patungong Cavite may go signal kaagad kahit mas mahal pa sa Mindanao railway project. Well, good luck on that BRT project under this administration.
From the very start, I am very supportive of this BRT project for Cebu and all other cities in PH.

Just want to correct your wrong impression about the LRT South extension. It was not approved agad. In fact, it was delay for 10 long years. Some said it's 14 years.

MRT 7 is delayed by 4 years. NAIA 1 renovation is delayed. So many delays in other PPP projects. I don't know if you're still surprised with this another delay. I hope that BRT Cebu is just delayed but not cancelled.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 01:12 PM   #4452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gud2ya
again, pnoy is not the president of cebu only.

bear in mind that 10 billion given to us is 10 billion less for other projects in the country.

besides, why are we not hearing a much louder outcry from cebuanos outside this forum on the deferment? maybe we have not even convinced the cebuano people. kulang pa ang info drive/campaign. how can we expect to convince non-cebuanos when even the general cebuano population are not totally sold to it?

the BRT should never fail, otherwise it would be a waste of taxpayers money. that's why we have to really make sure that we have every bases covered. thinking about it, im not even sure if BRT can really work even in escario. nag-aalangan nga ako na araw araw akong bumabyahe papuntang capitol via escario, ano pa kaya ang presidente?
Again, this is the point really. I want to hear the REAL and clear reasons for the deferral and not a vague and dumb "medyo may kulang eh" comment. The PreFS and FS are not perfect, I'd concede that, but those studies found the project to be feasible after studying the data and everything else. What has OUR opinion or even the President's opinion itself got against the result of a proper study!?

That's why I hope sir Zid can update us about what really went wrong.


Again, I don't buy that Cebu is not the Philippines. The government does provide the guarantee but it does not bleed its coffers for the real immediate capital that goes into this. And why could you say that about Cebu!?? With our population and status as a metropolis, we've got ZERO modern mass public transit system. So are we too spoiled to demand one? Don't forget that it's our FIRST one and a cheaper one at that!!

On the second thought, even if you looked at this from a business angle it's not like the country is losing money over this. Consider it an investment for Cebu and for the whole country. Cebu has been producing more that what the national government has been inputting! Think of what a mass public transport system can do to jack up our economic production! Be it MRT it BRT. More goods and services produced means more money for the rest of the country. We're a proven moneymaker and so why can't the government invest in us? So there don't give me that "be apologetic and conscientious citizen" line. It's not like we've had 3 MRT lines already, you know?
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Last edited by bakasaurus; December 11th, 2012 at 05:55 PM.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 04:42 PM   #4453
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again, pnoy is not the president of cebu only.

bear in mind that 10 billion given to us is 10 billion less for other projects in the country.

and what about the government's annual subsidy of P15+ billion to manila's MRT and LRT??

how many projects would that money have funded?
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Old December 11th, 2012, 04:57 PM   #4454
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UNSAON MAN NILA PAG KABALO IF OKAY BA ANG BRT IF DILI NILA I APPROVE DIBA? NGANO MAN KANANG LRT SA MANILA , GI UNSA MAN NA NILA PAG PROVE BI NGA EFFICIENT SYA PAG SAUNA?
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Old December 11th, 2012, 07:02 PM   #4455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakasaurus View Post
Again, this is the point really. I want to hear the REAL and clear reasons for the deferral and not a vague and dumb "medyo may kulang eh" comment. The PreFS and FS are not perfect, I'd concede that, but those studies found the project to be feasible after studying the data and everything else. What has OUR opinion or even the President's opinion itself got against the result of a proper study!?

That's why I hope sir Zid can update us about what really went wrong.


Again, I don't buy that Cebu is not the Philippines. The government does provide the guarantee but it does not bleed its coffers for the real immediate capital that goes into this. And why could you say that about Cebu!?? With our population and status as a metropolis, we've got ZERO modern mass public transit system. So are we too spoiled to demand one? Don't forget that it's our FIRST one and a cheaper one at that!!

On the second thought, even if you looked at this from a business angle it's not like the country is losing money over this. Consider it an investment for Cebu and for the whole country. Cebu has been producing more that what the national government has been inputting! Think of what a mass public transport system can do to jack up our economic production! Be it MRT it BRT. More goods and services produced means more money for the rest of the country. We're a proven moneymaker and so why can't the government invest in us? So there don't give me that "be apologetic and conscientious citizen" line. It's not like we've had 3 MRT lines already, you know?
let me answer you with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonnieR View Post
From the very start, I am very supportive of this BRT project for Cebu and all other cities in PH.

Just want to correct your wrong impression about the LRT South extension. It was not approved agad. In fact, it was delay for 10 long years. Some said it's 14 years.

MRT 7 is delayed by 4 years. NAIA 1 renovation is delayed. So many delays in other PPP projects. I don't know if you're still surprised with this another delay. I hope that BRT Cebu is just delayed but not cancelled.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 07:06 PM   #4456
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Originally Posted by wolfram74 View Post
and what about the government's annual subsidy of P15+ billion to manila's MRT and LRT??

how many projects would that money have funded?
we wouldn't want BRT to be another MRT, would we?
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Old December 11th, 2012, 07:07 PM   #4457
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UNSAON MAN NILA PAG KABALO IF OKAY BA ANG BRT IF DILI NILA I APPROVE DIBA? NGANO MAN KANANG LRT SA MANILA , GI UNSA MAN NA NILA PAG PROVE BI NGA EFFICIENT SYA PAG SAUNA?
yep, that's what happened to MRT, a failed multibillion peso experiment.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 07:16 PM   #4458
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UNSAON MAN NILA PAG KABALO IF OKAY BA ANG BRT IF DILI NILA I APPROVE DIBA? NGANO MAN KANANG LRT SA MANILA , GI UNSA MAN NA NILA PAG PROVE BI NGA EFFICIENT SYA PAG SAUNA?
IMHO, efficiency is another animal, bay! In layman's terms, kanang efficient system mo-produce almost the same or very nearly the value nga gi-input! An LRT system no doubt is efficient being electrically-driven. Ang nakaparat kay bisan gani ang costs required to run the system dili gusto nga bayaran sa mga commuters sa Metro Manila! Gusto nila nga "subsidized" sa gobiyerno. En tonces, hasta ang wa magamit sa transport system (dili taga Metro Manila) kinahanglan nga moamot aron magpadayon ang operations sa LRT/MRT.

Another case of "legal plunder" (our government decision-makers take some money from Juan's family so that Pedro and his cabal can avail of the luxury brought about by that above-mentioned transport system). Sa Tagalog, mao na'y gitawag nga "Hating-kapatid" (the eldest brother gets the lion's share,the rest get the crumbs)! CEB translation: "panglupig"! Sorry for the rant but it's the truth.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 08:38 PM   #4459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gud2ya

let me answer you with this.
How is that even the ANSWER?

Not accepted. Sorry.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 09:52 PM   #4460
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ahahahahaha! simple ra kaau pangutana ni baks, lagpas sd kaaug tubag mga taw. migad!
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