Tories sneaking in more NHS privatisation by the back door

[blahblahv2]

Originally Posted by Nathan Dawz

Is this the place where the handful of Tories can talk to themselves and jerk off at the thought of privatisation?

No. It's too full of Labour Supporters jizzing over things which aren't true!

[DBadger]

And yet you're here.

[blahblahv2]

Originally Posted by ps60

Whilever the Tories exist, we will have a country run on the basis of Social Darwinism. Social Darwinism has been at the heart of Tory thinking for 200 years, ever since Charles Darwin was a lad. And people like the Chartists, Tolpuddle Martyrs, Jarrow marchers and a whole host of others fought for what we have today, against the odds, against the apathetic majority and against a bunch of power-obsessed reactionary Tories who wanted to keep us permanently stuck in 1800. What a pity the souped-up DeLorean time machine from Back To the Future couldn't be real and the typical Tory couildn't be whisked back to 1850 or thereabouts and left there. They'd be so at home.

Any credible source to back that up?

[Ultima]

Originally Posted by blahblahv2

UK Skybar = Left Wingers.

Not even remotely.

[blahblahv2]

Originally Posted by DBadger

And yet you're here.

Yes. Sorry to ruin the wankfest with some home truthes. I always find it quite amusing the reaction that I get when I point out that various people are talking bullshit.

[gothicform]

Originally Posted by blahblahv2

I'm taking issue with your comment about "The more the better" Presumably you've said this because of your own political views and I take that to mean that you couldn't give a shit whether the story has any basis in fact at all. As long as you and your mates can embark on yet another Tory Bashing wanking fest then it's all good.

Moderator? My arse.

i'm not a moderator. see this forum - i made it. if i wanted to i could delete it now. i'm like the pub owner... this is my pub, if you don't like it please head off somewhere else. the more threads there are the more discussion there is. if conservative supporters want to make loads of threads too they are welcome to.

[DBadger]

If all of the people who only post in the skybar to complain they're under represented actually contributed to discussions, they'd probably find they're over represented!

[jonnyboy]

im not a tory voter, but u have to give them credit coming back time and again to clean up the mess labour left the country in...in my lifetime 1979 and 2010! they end up being called the nasty party purely on the basis they have to make the tough grown up choices the labour party cant make!

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by DBadger

There's no reason a state bank couldn't lend capital. We currently have state run banks.

Who don't lend!

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by tuten

But you use 'private sector' and 'competition' interchangeably. You should choose which one you support because one certainly does not lead to the other.

There is no competition in the public sector. No drive to improve. There is in the private sector were a market exists. Where there isn't one make it public. Capiche?

[Ultima]

Originally Posted by jonnyboy

im not a tory voter, but u have to give them credit coming back time and again to clean up the mess labour left the country in...in my lifetime 1979 and 2010! they end up being called the nasty party purely on the basis they have to make the tough grown up choices the labour party cant make!

Labour were easily the best party for Britain in 1997. Now, both Labour and Tories are an absolute shambles.

[gothicform]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

There is no competition in the public sector. No drive to improve. There is in the private sector were a market exists. Where there isn't one make it public. Capiche?

depends on the market. some markets are natural monopolies and should thus be nationalised. other markets benefit more from competition. the railways are an example of a natural monopoly.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by pricemazda

Funny, I seem to remember RBS playing around with their IT system with legions of contractors and somehow no one could access their accounts at RBS, Natwest and Ulster bank.

I seem to remember O2 losing it's whole network because of 'IT problems'.

If you know IT contractors personally, you'd know a) they get paid megabucks and still have massive cost over runs and way behind schedule.

Did I say there weren't fuck ups in the private sector?

I fight belie I did. But there are at more private than public IT projects and they are far better at delivering on time an on budget. I have been invoked in public sector project management and have seen first hand the disaster areas.

Surely the Olympics is a perfect example of public private partnership delivering outstanding performance on time? And on budget once the hopefully optimistic labour politically influenced estimate was revised and properly costed.

[Nathan Dawz]

Originally Posted by jonnyboy

im not a tory voter, but u have to give them credit coming back time and again to clean up the mess labour left the country in...in my lifetime 1979 and 2010! they end up being called the nasty party purely on the basis they have to make the tough grown up choices the labour party cant make!

Yeh like wasting £83bn on Trident when we're supposedly in austerity.

Or giving tax cuts to the wealthiest when everyone else has to suffer.

Or trebling tuition fees so future generations will be saddled with debt before their adult lives have begun.

Or privatising the railways, the utilities and the Royal Mail so prices can skyrocket and shareholders can grow fat in the process.

Or deregulating the City in the 1986 'Big Bang' - that turned out well didn't it?

Or Black Wednesday.

Or the Three Day Week.

Or appeasing the Nazis in the 1930s leading to the biggest war in world history.

Yeh, the Tories are great.

[gothicform]

you godwined the thread! you were doing so well until then.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by alphaxion

actually, the mobile biz is in trouble. voice income is dropping like a stone causing them to look for alternative streams.

data is seen as the next big cash cow and are even trying to get in on the CDN business whilst also attempting to jack up prices for hosts to transport their data across mobile networks.

isp's are in the same boat, trying to wrangle money out of content companies because they're selling the connection at below cost.

telecoms are in a bad shape.

Nope. As you say, plenty of money in data.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by gothicform

use google! try questions like "how much is a human life worth". "cancer survival rates". "national health service efficiency".

i have already posted where the efficiency figures come from, the treatment rates for cancer etc. we know the population due to the census, we know the overall death rate due to the census. anyone with basic math skills can work out the number of excess deaths if the NHS becomes as efficient as the german system.

I didn't realise that google was an omnipotent oracle that is never wrong. The thing is people's experiences don't match your scaremongering rhetoric.

[gothicform]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

I didn't realise that google was an omnipotent oracle that is never wrong. The thing is people's experiences don't match your scaremongering rhetoric.

eh? so you dispute the royal college of medicine? ok. you know best, your personal experience is what matters, not a report that has been compiled with the cooperation of numerous governments over a decade, that is backed by a right-wing thinktank, and by the world health organisation. basically what you're saying is that because it jars with your own personal experience it must be wrong. i mean what's the point in looking at the treatment outcomes of millions of people when person on the internet KNOWS the truth.

it's not scaremongering. in the NHS if things go wrong people die. you could easily work out how many people would die if we had the german system if you wanted to. this is basic maths. you could work out the effect it would have on the people you know around you... again basic maths as you know a numerical amount of people. one basic rule of politics is policy changes always bring risks and these are the risks. what are the benefits?

[alphaxion]

surely the pressure to provide the best service comes from stats such as the human development index and comparisons between other solutions in other countries, backed up by a voter base who can make you unemployed if they don't like the way things are running?

also, keep in mind that not everything is a race to the bottom... there are plenty of private solutions which are expensive because there is a perceived premium on their product/service.

it would be worth comparing the same level and quality of service between public and private and then notice the price difference.

[Nathan Dawz]

Originally Posted by gothicform

you godwined the thread! you were doing so well until then.

This reference to the Nazis happened to be true, so I thought it was fair game to add it!