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Old December 18th, 2012, 03:23 PM   #2721
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The burning of these wood pellets isn't a good thing actually. They are being paid (subsidised) to burn a material that is currently recycled, these wooden pellets are the same stuff that gets turned into chipboard etc anyway, so now the power generators are buying it up, subsidised by us taxpayers , the furniture and construction industry has to pay greatly inflated prices for the stuff that's left... Of course the furniture and construction sectors are in such rude health too..

Sorry rant over...
There are also significant issues with the pellets giving off carbon monoxide; fatalities have occurred entering storage silos.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 04:30 PM   #2722
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Debt at the level of NR is not healthy debt, it is out of control debt. Massive difference. Off the scale.
That simply isn't true.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 07:20 PM   #2723
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Simple maths. Anyone else think different? It is simple economics.
Well so far you're the only one that thinks you are right. As usual.
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Old December 19th, 2012, 12:26 AM   #2724
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthenew View Post
The burning of these wood pellets isn't a good thing actually. They are being paid (subsidised) to burn a material that is currently recycled, these wooden pellets are the same stuff that gets turned into chipboard etc anyway, so now the power generators are buying it up, subsidised by us taxpayers , the furniture and construction industry has to pay greatly inflated prices for the stuff that's left... Of course the furniture and construction sectors are in such rude health too..

Sorry rant over...

I did some research into this when there was a proposal a year or two ago for a biomass burning plant at Liverpool Docks. The idea was that the pellets would be shipped in from Canada and would be grown using a coppicing technique (i.e the trees are cut down to root level and allowed to grow again). The claim is that the system is more or less carbon neutral as any carbon that is released during the burning process is balanced by that absorbed by the growing trees (that makes it different from the release of carbon from oil or coal that has been stored underground for millions of years). Carbon can also be removed by the use of scrubbers in the exhaust system.

Of course carbon will be produced during the shipping of the pellets but I don't think that is significant.

I take your point about the wood pellets being used in the manufacture of furniture - I guess the ethics of it are very similar to the debate over bio-ethanol additive to fuel.
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Old December 19th, 2012, 12:33 PM   #2725
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Did you read the rest of the article?

"Our asset base is £45bn, our debt is £28bn. If you look at utility companies, National Grid, Thames Water, you’ll find debt-to-asset ratios very comparable to ours”

“We think debt levels...are perfectly sustainable and there is no need for them to come down”

“The point to be concerned is when you see Network Rail’s debt is static because it means we have stopped investing.”


Chris
The difference being that the comparable companies are not 100% owned by the taxpayer.
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Old December 19th, 2012, 07:26 PM   #2726
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The difference being that the comparable companies are not 100% owned by the taxpayer.
I would put money on the present administration being able to work out a way to privatise a state owned company (such as this) complete with it's debts, if they wanted to.
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Old December 19th, 2012, 09:28 PM   #2727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fernando Partridge View Post
The difference being that the comparable companies are not 100% owned by the taxpayer.
Of course, the benefit of this being low borrowing rates as the debt is guaranteed by government.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aenedor View Post
I would put money on the present administration being able to work out a way to privatise a state owned company (such as this) complete with it's debts, if they wanted to.
They could but they won't, remember that Network Rail is already the result of a failed attempt at privatising the infrastructure provider and there's no reason or appetite in government for another go - emphasis is instead being put on various internal reforms, including alliances with train operating companies.

Chris

Last edited by Christopher125; December 19th, 2012 at 09:41 PM.
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Old January 6th, 2013, 10:40 AM   #2728
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http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...and-Clegg.html

Maybe progress soon.
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Old January 6th, 2013, 11:19 AM   #2729
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Torygraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-minister.html

Though couple of interesting notes if true that it will go through crewe and only clip Osbornes Tatton constituency, will suffer a speed penalty from following the main roads/existing rail (which is what all the objectors were demanding in the first place wasnt it?) and one of the options was a station at Salford Quays though MP's say it will be next to Piccadilly (though really they dont know as only Ministers have seen it).
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Old January 6th, 2013, 11:30 AM   #2730
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No particular problem with an extra 10miles on the route tbh, as has been said this is mostly about tackling congestion on the WCML and 10miles would only add about 3 or 4 mins to the journey.

Not sure about Salford Quays, suspect that is more anti-HS2 propaganda rather than anything else.

Edit - I just don't believe the SQ part of the article. How on earth could ~4k passengers arrive and ~4k passengers depart that area on an hourly basis?

Very much doubt it will be happening.
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Old January 6th, 2013, 11:56 AM   #2731
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Looking on Google Earth, following on from the Torygraph, do we think that from a new Crewe HS2 station the line will initially follow the existing WCML alignment, pass just north of Sandbach, north of Holmes Chapel, between Goostrey and the A50, East of Moberley and Knutsford and West of Alderley Edge and Wilmslow to the airport.

Then presumably if the SQ is wrong in a tunnel to Piccadilly.
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Old January 6th, 2013, 11:56 AM   #2732
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Weve even mooted it here, a station at Cornbrook.
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Old January 6th, 2013, 11:58 AM   #2733
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Weve even mooted it here, a station at Cornbrook.
I actually really like that idea.

Is it St George's island? Where Pomona and Cornbrook are locationed?

To be honest, this is my preferred location I think.

Links the city centre with Salford Quays and Trafford, developing another area really well.

Lyon had similar I think, works very well there.
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Old January 6th, 2013, 01:28 PM   #2734
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Cornbrook is useless as a connecting hub for railway though - Piccadilly (or Victoria) are the only realistic options to achieve that objective
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Old January 6th, 2013, 01:56 PM   #2735
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No particular problem with an extra 10miles on the route tbh, as has been said this is mostly about tackling congestion on the WCML and 10miles would only add about 3 or 4 mins to the journey.
Even 3 or 4 minutes is fairly significant when we're talking about high-speed rail.

For many businesses in Greater Manchester the aim will be to reduce the journey times between here and London by as much as possible. If the route is being deliberately lengthened just to avoid the Chancellor's constituency then I'd say that's pretty disgraceful.
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Old January 6th, 2013, 02:04 PM   #2736
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Cornbrook is useless as a connecting hub for railway though - Piccadilly (or Victoria) are the only realistic options to achieve that objective
Precisely. It would be ludicrous to have it anywhere other than Piccadilly or Victoria.

I'm not too happy about this idea that Crewe will get a station as well. It's turning into a 'jam for everyone' line, which is exactly what it isn't supposed to be. The government should be tougher and stop caving in to every town and small city that demands something. It was bad enough that Ashford and Ebbsfleet in Kent were given 'international' HS stations without adding to the problem for HS2.
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Old January 6th, 2013, 02:19 PM   #2737
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Even 3 or 4 minutes is fairly significant when we're talking about high-speed rail.

For many businesses in Greater Manchester the aim will be to reduce the journey times between here and London by as much as possible. If the route is being deliberately lengthened just to avoid the Chancellor's constituency then I'd say that's pretty disgraceful.
HS2 is about capacity primarily, within the economic and political constraints we have in the country.

Speed is very much a secondary concern.

About 75-80 mins to central London is great as far as I am concerned.

Don't see anything to do with the proposed routing to suggest GO being am MP in Tatton being relevant. The route I described from Crewe avoids his area as it's the most direct.
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Old January 6th, 2013, 02:34 PM   #2738
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Come off it, of course speed is a primary concern! The official explanation is "increasing capacity" to appease the anti-HS2 people, but if it was planned to go at the same speed as the WCML it wouldn't be half as popular.

The Telegraph reports that the re-routing around Crewe will cost an extra £1.2bn, and if you think George Osborne hasn't had his say on getting the line to avoid the pretty towns of Tatton you must be wet behind the ears!
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Old January 6th, 2013, 02:40 PM   #2739
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The route will be revealed this week according to the Telegraph, with stations at Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Airport!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...loses-out.html
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Old January 6th, 2013, 02:54 PM   #2740
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The route will be revealed this week according to the Telegraph, with stations at Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Airport!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...loses-out.html
Be well pleased with that if true.
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