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Old March 27th, 2012, 12:10 PM   #41
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Find that hard to believe
Then you clearly have never been on a night out in places like Romford, Croxteth or Basford. Easily far more dodgy for a night out than the city centres, which are much better policed.
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Old March 27th, 2012, 09:29 PM   #42
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Cardiff created the UK's first purpose-built cafe quarter in Mill Lane a decade ago. The city centre is now largely pedestrianised, I would estimate an area of about 30 hectares. There are about 100 places to eat with outside provision, and with the pedestrianisation of the Hayes and the creation of Bridge st square the county council have created great areas to mooch, peoplewatch, relax,eat, drink, whatever. The past few days have been amazing, the city loves good weather and allows people to enjoy it! The council is creating a paved square outside the front entrance to the castle. Visit Cardiff this summer and see for yourselves........
And no I don't work for the council or tourist board.
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Old March 29th, 2012, 12:16 AM   #43
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Cardiff created the UK's first purpose-built cafe quarter in Mill Lane a decade ago. The city centre is now largely pedestrianised, I would estimate an area of about 30 hectares. There are about 100 places to eat with outside provision, and with the pedestrianisation of the Hayes and the creation of Bridge st square the county council have created great areas to mooch, peoplewatch, relax,eat, drink, whatever. The past few days have been amazing, the city loves good weather and allows people to enjoy it! The council is creating a paved square outside the front entrance to the castle. Visit Cardiff this summer and see for yourselves........
And no I don't work for the council or tourist board.

Bristol is also wonderful for places in which to spend time outside with much outdoor seating, squares etc, especially along the harbour and river sides. The majority of bars, restaurants, and cafes have outside seating lending it a European feel.

I need to pay Cardiff a visit havn't been in a while. I think many UK cities have stole a lead on much of London in terms of good public spaces and places to stay outside in good weather.
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Old March 29th, 2012, 11:54 AM   #44
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Perhaps the people of the UK just prefer to eat inside then outside? We're similar to the Dutch in many ways but we're an island and we've always done our own thing, good or bad.
of course the picnic is in no way very english
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Old March 29th, 2012, 12:36 PM   #45
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What some people are forgetting, is that people do sit outside in the UK, on beaches and in parks, often in the wind. We do have the weather for it, as we can see now.

The point that I'm trying to make is that we don't tend to sit or hang around in exclusively urban environments, unless it's in a cafe or pub or their are plenty of shops nearby - unless we are consuming. It may have something to do with an urban phobia, where people want to retreat to parks or suburbs and pretend they are in the countryside (witness the conservationist argument about the problem of seeing buildings poke over the trees in Hyde Park!)

The notion of the flaneur is very French - someone who just wanders and witnesses urbanity - not consumes it.
There is an element of tradition of urban suspicion that is true, the park picnic and garden parading etc maybe this is more romanticism of nature and human domination?

However we have also been an urban people as long as anything other culture, indeed often at the forefront, the Tudors, Georgians and Victorians loved the whole urban fantasy along with the civilising aspects. Urban intrigue, literature and photography is certainly part of our traditional culture too, although as you say not always positive.

In contemporary times I would say that our poor perception is more to do with issues of bureaucracy and engineering.

This is because the urban environment, where our cities were at the forefront of 20th century change have had that pre-modernist concept of urban anarchy designed out of them, from an engineering and a bureaucratic point.

The force for this was the modernist view of 'cleanness', clarity, speed and transportation, the streets are the arteries of the economy etc etc constantly moving things about, there is a whole language of street design super imposed onto the urban grain to assist in reaching this specific holy grail, even though it is inherently an impossibility to reach in an urban habitat (how do you reach infinite speed and zero congestion?).

More recent efforts to make urban places more attractive as part of urban renewal programmes in the past three decades are focused on privatisation to save costs on investment and up keep. However as we all know there is no urban anarchy there. You wouldn't sit on the floor and have a picnic as you would be moved on. Probably for obstructing the highway.

More specifically in London maybe two high profile initiatives with more success spring to mind, the south bank and Trafalgar Square, both instigated before the privatisation concept borrowed from the US, gained full traction here.

On the south bank there is a taste of urban anarchy in places and luckily it is completely abstracted from the normal arteries of the city to create its own place. However there are still long stretches of rather unwelcoming space that you wouldnt hang about in and more recent and future additions are likely to be highly private initiatives, eg More London, OXO tower and around Sea Container house. The area around Tate Modern (a public institution) has been a recent successful addition.

Trafalgar Square has a history of anarchy, of visiting as a destination, of sitting and viewing of meetings and protests. More recently the Mayor led extension of the square to the National Gallery has increased the scope of the square where now more people sit and picnic outside of the National Gallery and street entertainment has appeared.

Some more recent less high profile examples are the market areas of London which have seen a bit of a renaissance. Certainly there is a flavour of urban anarchy in places like Camden and Brick Lane but these are more what I would term show pieces rather than intrinsic to the urban form as they have set times when things come alive and often you will be competing with huge crowds and the market requirements.

There are the canals too but its all a bit scruffy and narrow, good for a walk but not for a picnic.

The issue is not cultural but definitely historical and bureaucratic and just requires some leadership to step away from it.

Last edited by potto; March 29th, 2012 at 12:41 PM.
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Old March 29th, 2012, 06:23 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by SF-02

Bristol is also wonderful for places in which to spend time outside with much outdoor seating, squares etc, especially along the harbour and river sides. The majority of bars, restaurants, and cafes have outside seating lending it a European feel.

I need to pay Cardiff a visit havn't been in a while. I think many UK cities have stole a lead on much of London in terms of good public spaces and places to stay outside in good weather.
I took aussie family members to brizzle for the day when they were staying with us in Cardiff. It was a lovely mild january day and tbh they preferred bristol to Cardiff! The old city is amazing, and yes your waterside is nice. I think the aussies liked the tone and history of Bristol, they also loved the f**kin amazing graffiti project on the west side of the city centre.
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Old March 29th, 2012, 06:37 PM   #47
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And Potto, great post! As a twice-yearly visitor to London, for skyscraper and clubbing purposes, I undertake long walks. I've done Barnet to Camden, Holloway to Belgravia, Paddington to the City various ways and last year Euston to the Shard and back via different routes. The South Bank and especially Tate Modern is the only place I feel comfortable (other than the parks) stopping for a shmoke, shmoothie and scotch egg (I save my funds for a good evening meal and club costs). London doesn't cater too well for the casual moocher, there is that sense of "don't stop" on most thoroughfares. I do like the embankment round cleopatra's needle, and victoria embankment gardens, but there is the sense that if you stop for too long people look at you thinking "what in the hell is he up to?". Canary Wharf is a nightmare for me, I would love to stop and drink it all in but I am justifiably wary of the tap on the shoulder asking me to move along. Most days in London I cover 12-15 miles on foot, I love it but then I am too footsore to dance much in the evening
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Old March 30th, 2012, 11:20 AM   #48
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What some people are forgetting, is that people do sit outside in the UK, on beaches and in parks, often in the wind. We do have the weather for it, as we can see now.

The point that I'm trying to make is that we don't tend to sit or hang around in exclusively urban environments, unless it's in a cafe or pub or their are plenty of shops nearby - unless we are consuming. It may have something to do with an urban phobia, where people want to retreat to parks or suburbs and pretend they are in the countryside (witness the conservationist argument about the problem of seeing buildings poke over the trees in Hyde Park!)

The notion of the flaneur is very French - someone who just wanders and witnesses urbanity - not consumes it.
I agree with the bit about urban phobia - our cities will never be welcoming until there is a shift in this attitude. For me this is summed up by what happened to the Urban Spaces project in London - remember? when he became Mayor, Boris, attempting to stamp his identity on things renamed it the Green Spaces project (missing the point altogether) and so lumping it together with saving school playing fields (worthy cause but different issue)...So I guess in Boris Johnson's world Green Spaces sounds more appealing than urban spaces - daft, as there are more opportunities too escape Urbanity within London than any city I know - the point is that it is the urbanity which needs improving to make it more enjoyable place to be not more opportunities to escape it.
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 01:56 PM   #49
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Firms chase 400-home Isle of Dogs job



East Thames Housing Group is in talks with contractors to build a 400-home development on the Isle of Dogs in London.

The Greater London Assembly nodded through the Union Wharf project to transform the existing 1970s estate after the local council Tower Hamlets backed the plan earlier this month.

East Thames Housing Group is now about to appoint a team to carry out the project with building work due to begin in early summer.

The housing association will select the builder from its framework panel of nine firms.
  • Mulalley
  • Wates Construction
  • Higgins Construction
  • Durkan
  • Hill Partnerships
  • Countryside Properties
  • Bramall Construction
  • Breyer Group
  • Mansell Construction Services

The homes all feature spacious outdoor areas including winter gardens and balconies, and will be constructed to East Thames’ high specification standards with modern energy saving features.

The design proposed by Jestico + Whiles is founded on a ‘street-based’ approach and will see the existing estate replaced by a simple pattern of streets and low-to-medium rise urban blocks with views over the river.

East Thames Director of Development and Property, Geoff Pearce said: ”New Union Wharf is the first major estate where residents have chosen between full-scale regeneration or refurbishment to their homes.

“Since the residents made that decision, we’ve worked really closely with them to design the new homes, and I truly believe that their input has made a massive, positive difference to the quality of the scheme.”
constructionenquirer.com - 21st January 2013
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 02:19 PM   #50
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they missed a tower
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 05:23 PM   #51
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By the way, the thread title is a teensy bit wrong. Canary Wharf is (at least partially) in the Isle of Dogs, which itself is in the East End (which shouldnt be mistaken for East London, which includes the East End and plenty to the East of the river Lea too). Its a bit of a Russian doll of a thread title.
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 02:27 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Gavrosh View Post
By the way, the thread title is a teensy bit wrong. Canary Wharf is (at least partially) in the Isle of Dogs, which itself is in the East End (which shouldnt be mistaken for East London, which includes the East End and plenty to the East of the river Lea too). Its a bit of a Russian doll of a thread title.
I like that, and can only express my disappointment it doesn't go further.

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Old January 24th, 2013, 07:28 PM   #53
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they missed a tower
Believe it or not the flats in that type of tower block are excellently designed and are dual aspect, something that modern private sector developments rarely offer. And to my mind the exterior of the building is nicely done but that's a matter of opinion. One of the sister blocks in nearby Deptford was converted into posh Aragon Tower.



This man gives an eloquent description on why some of the changes made to that block were foolhardy in the extreme. But then we don't want any of that foolhardy Parker Morris nonsense in Britain

http://www.singleaspect.org.uk/?p=7832
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Old January 25th, 2013, 12:58 AM   #54
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This area will look totally different in the future.

- 400-home development (Isle of Dogs)
- Development of Wood Wharf


(New tall building on Canary Wharf (Herzog & De Meuron) )
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Old January 25th, 2013, 04:48 PM   #55
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^ All I need is for the Glengall Bridge vision to magic itself into reality.

http://www.glengalldocklands.com/est...velopment.html

I can dream.
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Old January 25th, 2013, 06:24 PM   #56
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Believe it or not the flats in that type of tower block are excellently designed and are dual aspect, something that modern private sector developments rarely offer. And to my mind the exterior of the building is nicely done but that's a matter of opinion. One of the sister blocks in nearby Deptford was converted into posh Aragon Tower.
Sure i was being a tad shallow, but if only they hadn't built these things so dam wide! A single unit width of most council towers and after a bit of a scrub and clean up they would look quite elegant and impressive likey chimney stacks in an industrial landscape. And yes I utterly despise the external look of Aragon tower
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Old January 25th, 2013, 07:12 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by SE9 View Post
^ All I need is for the Glengall Bridge vision to magic itself into reality.

http://www.glengalldocklands.com/est...velopment.html

I can dream.
That's a nice tower.
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Old February 19th, 2013, 07:43 PM   #58
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Canary Wharf masterplan reached - what's next?

-- Link to Wharf article --



The topping out ceremony of Canary Wharf's newest construction marked the end of the original masterplan some 25 years ago. Now the focus is on the future and in the next quarter century another huge transition will take place.

Cormac MacCrann, executive director of Canary Wharf Contractors, joined the group in 1988 and has overseen most of the construction. He said: "Where we are is just a milestone. There's so much more still to do. Canary Wharf's already spectacular but there are still the towers to go at Riverside South, Heron Quay West and Wood Wharf - off the top of my head there must be 10 towers still to build."

If that's not enough to go on with, CWG's construction arm has also branched out of the estate. It is building a 160m skyscraper in Fenchurch Steet - known as the Walkie-Talkie - and an eight-building development by the Shell offices on the South Bank.

Much of the latter is residential, as a percentage of the upcoming Wood Wharf scheme to the east of Canary Wharf will be. CWG has given a further indication of its newly-found homebuilding philosophy by this week buying a site in Burdett Street, Poplar, which has already been given consent for a 56-apartment development.

Cormac confirmed homes were a big part of CWG's vision. "There's a lot of international money coming into London," he said. "Brand London is fantastic and it's been improved by the Olympics. A lot of that money coming in is for residential. The original planning application for Wood Wharf was designed by Richard Rogers for towers with a million sq ft commercial space but the market is not what it was five years ago. The new planning application will be for more residential."

But first of all there's the completion of 25 Churchill Place. At 20 storeys it's the biggest tower to be built on the estate since Barclays was opened in 2005. Following the completion of steelworks, cladding is next, before the internal fit-outs are finished. However, work on the interiors of the lower floors - for tenant European Medicines Agency - are already being worked on.

"That's one of the great benefits of Canary Wharf Group being the developer and the constructor," said Cormac. "There isn't the turf war between contractors that exists on some sites. We work together."
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Old February 20th, 2013, 12:17 PM   #59
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Hopefully this means projects like Riverside South and Heron Quays, as well as the Pride and Columbus, still have a good chance of going up between now and 2020! That isn't too long to wait, and once that's done they can take their sweet time with wood wharf, I would be happy anyway!
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Old February 20th, 2013, 03:37 PM   #60
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Canary Wharf's plans for future development

-- Link to Wharf article --

The topping out ceremony at 25 Churchill Place earlier this month meant Canary Wharf Group had reached a milestone - the completion of its original masterplan. But, as reported in The Wharf last week, Canary Wharf Contractors' executive director Cormac MacCrann, said there was still much more work to do over the coming years.

Crossrail station is under construction and by 2015 - three years ahead of the train service starting - part of its retail offering will be open. The final plans include a restaurant, cinema and gym. Meanwhile, work is underway to open 22 new outlets in the lower level of the Jubilee Place mall. But, even though, to many, the estate looks fully developed, there's still much more land to build on. Here's the lowdown on remaining skyscrapers to be built on the estate:
--
Wood Wharf



Wood Wharf is now fully owned by Canary Wharf Group after it bought out its development partners last year and the company is keen to push ahead. A previous planning application for a series of towers was approved by Tower Hamlets Council in 2008 but CWG went back to the drawing board after the global recession hit. Updated plans are set to be submitted this summer and will include office space more suited to smaller firms, likely to complement the growth of tech services in east London. There will also be the first residential offerings on the estate.

The site, to the east of the current Wharf estate, will have a number of buildings around a new high street. At least one building will be in South Dock. Superstar architects Herzog and de Meuron, known for their "Jenga" style designs and the Bird's Nest stadium in Beijing will work on the dock skyscraper. Other designers will be picked to suit Sir Terry Farrell's masterplan. The development is unlikely to court the opposition other Isle of Dogs developments off the estate such as Skylines have seen. This is because of the vast levels of consultation undertaken with the Wood Wharf project.
--
Riverside South



At the other end of the estate work is underway on Riverside South. JP Morgan signed a £237million deal with CWG for a 999-year lease back in 2008, with the landowner working as the construction manager. Plans were cleared by council for a 240m tower. It was hoped to be built by 2013 but JP Morgan has opted to delay. However, progress is still being made and work is currently taking place to raise the construction from basement to ground floor level. It is not yet known whether JP Morgan, which last year moved to the former Lehman Brothers' building at Bank Street, has decided its future lies at Riverside South.
--
One Bank Street



Not far from this is One Bank Street, also known as Heron Quays West, which was last year turned into parkland and is on the south of the estate. Architect Rogers Stirk Harbour and Partners has designed the scheme and it has received approval from Tower Hamlets. However, Canary Wharf Group has not yet decided when to go ahead with the plans, which are for three office towers of 12, 21 and 33 storeys.
--
Newfoundland



Newfoundland is at the end of Middle Dock and is the site of a proposed luxury hotel and restaurant designed by Patel Taylor. Plans are for a 37 storey tower with 150 hotel rooms and 78 serviced apartments. There would also be an underground walkway to the Jubilee mall and station. These were passed by council and rubber-stamped by Mayor Boris Johnson in 2008. However, again CWG is still undecided on whether to go ahead with original plans or look at a more residential offering.
--
North Quay



Just behind the Crossrail station is North Quay. Early designs by Pelli Clarke Pelli are for three towers rising to 40 floors. It received approval in 2007 but no work can begin on the site until the opening of Crossrail station due to space taken up in the construction stage of the terminal.
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