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Old September 8th, 2010, 01:07 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
Ah, I see. Typical american hypocrisy. Everywhere they go it must be nice
and clean, but they don't care the least bit for the the heaps of poisonous
crap their lifestyle is generating everywhere else on the planet. Remember
Bophal ? Union Carbide, US chemical company, may be producing this blue
fluid that you want our train toilets to be cleaned up with ???
LOL. I'm not American, though I hope to move there after I finish my Ph.D and start a life there.

What the hell does Bophal have to do with this? It would like say NS transported Jews to Vught concentration camp, hence NS is guilty of the worst atrocity ever perpetrated in the civilized World. Waste shall be properly disposed, period. We are developed, living in supposedly DEVELOPED countries. Development and civilization means we (ideally) don't let our toddlers play in areas in danger of contamination by fungi or bacteria, promote aseptic environments, pasteurize milk before drinking it, use lights - not candles - for reading, don't walk naked around cities and deal properly with our waste.

Animal farms are hazardous environment by nature (btw, I love barbecue, I'm no vegeboring or environwacko). Fortunately, industrial farming comes with higher levels of automation and disposition of manure and waste in better manners too.

What if a railway worker gets infected by tapeworm while being hit by the discharge of waste of a fast moving trains while she or he is cutting grass near the reserved railway area?

Seriously, I'm truly appalled by this situation and I think EU should step in.
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Old September 8th, 2010, 01:36 AM   #62
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As someone said nearly all trains in the United Kingdom and Scandinavia have closed circuit WCs, most spanish trains are new so with closed WCs, and within ten years also Switzerland will have only new or refurbished stock with closed WC system, the same for most western european countries, so I really don't see the problem...
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Old September 8th, 2010, 01:43 AM   #63
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A I really don't see the problem...
That Dutch tracks will keep being trashed, and also Dutch stations, for at least another 14 years until ALL old stock will be likely retired is not a problem? 12 train sets were renovated in 2008 and not fitted with those closed systems because it would be too expensive given some particularity of their design.
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Old September 8th, 2010, 01:55 AM   #64
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Indipendently about opinions about the necessity of closed WCs or not, the fact is that most if not all trains in Spain, UK, France, Switzerland and Scandinavia within 10 years will have them. I don't know about the Netherlands thought.
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Old September 8th, 2010, 08:29 AM   #65
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The most primitive system that I have ever seen in Europe for train toilets was in Switzerland of all places. The toilets discharged directly onto the tracks without even a closing flap, which meant that you could see the track below through the toilet bowl and made using the toilet a very chilly experience.
I made the mistake of trying to piss in that situation. I mean, it looked fun, I could see the tracks....

The air blew in.....and my piss flew back onto my pants.

Luckily, Im a guy, so I could stop, run to the next restroom, and luckily that one was sealed.

Notice the piss everywhere? I wasnt the first to discover how the air flows.

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Old September 8th, 2010, 09:29 AM   #66
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This is the funniest thread I've found so far.

I agree that the idea of toilets discharging on to railway tracks is something that belongs to the past, and it seems that within 15-20 years Europe's railways will be piss-and-shit free, which is nice.

However to think that Switzerland of all places has some of the most basic - and judging by the photo above, hazardous - toilets around is a great irony.

I've always thought how unpleasant it must be to be a track worker who has to see and have contact with tracks caked in human waste. I'm surprised that various trade unions have not organised strikes in protest at the situation.
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Old September 8th, 2010, 10:19 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Skyprince View Post
This is extremely shocking. Are you kidding or is it really true ?

Trains in Malaysia never had something like this
Even in the 1880s Malaysian trains had closed circuit vacuum toilet systems?
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Old September 8th, 2010, 10:56 AM   #68
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I just came back from Europe and appart and it's really a culture paradise; but regarding cleaness it's hell (or worse)

people piss wherever in the streets and lots, lots of people smell like they hadn't take a bath for ages. Or they take showers but them put on the same clothes. not being european it's really disgusting to take metro or buses or just walking near smelly people.
It never happens in my every-time-more third world country.

something really basic, I can't live without it, is the argentinean videt.
in Europe, when people go to the toilet, they don't properly clean themselves with water and soap like in Argentina and Japan.

so dropping poo on the tracks in Europe, for me completly expectable.
if lots of people aren't clean with their bodies houses and cities, and don't care smelling like a wet cat, and the rest of people are clean but see unclean attitudes as normal; who could it be surprising that dutch trains drop poo on the tracks?
I guess you visited southern europe. northern is very clean, even for me italy or spain looks unbelievably dirty.
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Old September 8th, 2010, 11:36 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
That Dutch tracks will keep being trashed, and also Dutch stations, for at least another 14 years until ALL old stock will be likely retired is not a problem? 12 train sets were renovated in 2008 and not fitted with those closed systems because it would be too expensive given some particularity of their design.
You ask the question "why are we accepting this". And me and several other posters have allready mentioned that you are asking the wrong question, as "we"( or more precisely the railways) are not accepting this. They are doing something about it.
The more interesting question I would like to ask now is why you absolutely want this problem the be solved immediately. There is really no objective reason to speed up the process that has already started.
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Old September 8th, 2010, 11:53 AM   #70
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While the railways are already, as you say, tackling this issue with the gradual replacement of 'old' trains with rolling stock with retention toilets, I do wonder why it has taken so long to get to this stage, given that I'd imagine that retention toilets have been around for decades.

Have they been around for decades?
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Old September 8th, 2010, 12:23 PM   #71
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Closed toilets exist certainly since decades (think about airplanes), but their cost probably limited their use to situations where they were the only solution.
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Old September 8th, 2010, 01:54 PM   #72
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Closed toilets exist certainly since decades (think about airplanes), but their cost probably limited their use to situations where they were the only solution.
Buses have used closed, non-pressurized toilet systems (that simply retain waste in a separate compartment isolated with a siphon from the basin) for many decades. Of course it means it can overflows and shut down the toilet altogether.
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Old September 8th, 2010, 02:34 PM   #73
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Waste shall be properly disposed, period. We are developed, living in supposedly DEVELOPED countries.
Who are you to demand that waste "shall" be properly disposed, I always thought you were against involvement of the government. Why would a country be undeveloped because of this completely harmless practise. Is the Netherlands also undeveloped because we fertilize our pastures with manure? And what about dogs? Coming in contact with dog waste is much more likely. Perhaps you simply have a grudge against public transit and attack it in every way possible?

Quote:
Development and civilization means we (ideally) don't let our toddlers play in areas in danger of contamination by fungi or bacteria, promote aseptic environments, pasteurize milk before drinking it, use lights - not candles - for reading, don't walk naked around cities and deal properly with our waste.
Civilization also means that toddlers should not play on train tracks (which are fenced off almost everywhere anyway) so what is the relevance of that statement. Moreover why should children be barred from coming in contact with contaminants, it only teaches and improves their immune system which will make them stronger later in life. If you keep away your children from contaminants they will even be able to cope with a simple common cold later in life.

Quote:
What if a railway worker gets infected by tapeworm while being hit by the discharge of waste of a fast moving trains while she or he is cutting grass near the reserved railway area?
Why is this relevant to you, can't companies that work on rail road tracks make judgements about safety themselves? Do you think trains will still run at 140km/u when people are working near the tracks? They will properly not even allow trains to run at those times. And tell me how would a worker get hit when a train drop waste between the tracks? The only thing I can think of is that he is actually under the train, which would be a bigger problem then the waste.
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Old September 8th, 2010, 03:51 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
That Dutch tracks will keep being trashed, and also Dutch stations, for at least another 14 years until ALL old stock will be likely retired is not a problem? 12 train sets were renovated in 2008 and not fitted with those closed systems because it would be too expensive given some particularity of their design.
And I bet our old Belgium trains will do this for a longer time! I think the trains build afther 1995 don't do this anymore. But we still ahve a great amount of old trains... But really I never smelled piss or saw something on the tracks near or in a Belgian trainstation...
Our trains don't flush when they are in or near a trainstation...
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Old September 8th, 2010, 04:18 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by TedStriker View Post


While the railways are already, as you say, tackling this issue with the gradual replacement of 'old' trains with rolling stock with retention toilets, I do wonder why it has taken so long to get to this stage, given that I'd imagine that retention toilets have been around for decades.
The main reason would probably have been cost. It's only for the last two decades or so that the environment in which railways operate in has improved enough that they can afford this.
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Old September 8th, 2010, 04:31 PM   #76
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What about level road crossings, though? These are still a regular feature in many a city. There are thousands of them even in tiny little Holland. Now I've never witnessed or heard of any problems with this, and I suppose the "hit rates" would be quite small, but surely the busier ones must see a bit of slipperiness. Trains slow down as they approach a station, people realize it's their last chance to get something out of their system before they'll have to pay for one of those expensive station restrooms...

I'm not saying it is the end of the world, but it is amusing to think that if a large amount of whichever bodily waste were to end up on one of these crossings and under the feet of pedestrians, there wouldn't be a law or regulation disagreeing with it.

Last edited by sergiogiorgini; September 8th, 2010 at 04:37 PM.
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Old September 8th, 2010, 06:16 PM   #77
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Paying toilets are one reason of the bad smell around stations...
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Old September 9th, 2010, 06:08 AM   #78
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I'm not saying it is the end of the world, but it is amusing to think that if a large amount of whichever bodily waste were to end up on one of these crossings and under the feet of pedestrians, there wouldn't be a law or regulation disagreeing with it.
One reason is that we're not talking about large amounts. We're talking about very small amounts. Don't forget the train is moving at a considerable speed, so the "effluent" gets spread out over quite a large area.
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Old September 9th, 2010, 06:12 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by TedStriker View Post
I'm surprised that various trade unions have not organised strikes in protest at the situation.
Considering that unions in Europe have always been very quick to
protest against anything that might be even the most remotely detrimental
for the workers, the fact that they never protested against that proves
in itself that it is not a problem...
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Old September 9th, 2010, 07:01 PM   #80
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Humankind has lived between all sorts of animal (and human!) poo for centuries and milleniums. The very little amount produced and dumped in trains certainly won't kill us.
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