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Old September 5th, 2010, 12:00 AM   #1
Suburbanist
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MISC | Train Toilets

93% of Dutch train fleet is equipped with bathrooms that just spill the dejects on tracks. Straightforward: passenger flushes, water comes and washes away anything out on the tracks

Many other Western European countries still have huge train fleets equipped with this medieval, pre-War, unhealthy, uncivilized and outrageous setup of washrooms.

It reminds me of medieval Europe when houses had pipes channeling dejects on streets or, in poorer ones, small buckets that people would empty over the window - never mind bystanders or pedestrians.

I just keep imagining what if buses had such bathrooms. It would cause an outrage... you are driving or walking on the curbside and you spot some brown-ish mass of dejects being thrown at the pavement waiting a rain or a cleaning team to wash/pick it up. Disgusting.

Why in the Earth don't rail companies invest money to turn over this dark, sordid and fetid page of passenger rail transport? Why not at least here in Western Europe?

In any case, let us know: do rail companies in your company have rolling stock with so outdated washrooms?
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Old September 5th, 2010, 12:20 AM   #2
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I just came back from Europe and appart and it's really a culture paradise; but regarding cleaness it's hell (or worse)

people piss wherever in the streets and lots, lots of people smell like they hadn't take a bath for ages. Or they take showers but them put on the same clothes. not being european it's really disgusting to take metro or buses or just walking near smelly people.
It never happens in my every-time-more third world country.

something really basic, I can't live without it, is the argentinean videt.
in Europe, when people go to the toilet, they don't properly clean themselves with water and soap like in Argentina and Japan.

so dropping poo on the tracks in Europe, for me completly expectable.
if lots of people aren't clean with their bodies houses and cities, and don't care smelling like a wet cat, and the rest of people are clean but see unclean attitudes as normal; who could it be surprising that dutch trains drop poo on the tracks?
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Old September 5th, 2010, 12:22 AM   #3
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I just came back from Europe and appart and it's really a culture paradise; but regarding cleaness it's hell (or worse)

people piss wherever in the streets and lots, lots of people smell like they hadn't take a bath for ages. Or they take showers but them put on the same clothes. not being european it's really disgusting to take metro or buses or just walking near smelly people.
It never happens in my every-time-more third world country.

something really basic, I can't live without it, is the argentinean videt.
in Europe, when people go to the toilet, they don't properly clean themselves with water and soap like in Argentina and Japan.

so dropping poo on the tracks in Europe, for me completly expectable.
if lots of people aren't clean with their bodies houses and cities, and don't care smelling like a wet cat, and the rest of people are clean but see unclean attitudes as normal; who could it be surprising that dutch trains drop poo on the tracks?
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Old September 5th, 2010, 12:27 AM   #4
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Damn, those poor animals also poo and pee on the ground! Damn! And fishes also do that in the water, in which you have fun on the beach! Damn! And they even reporduce in there! They should be wearing nappies!
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Old September 5th, 2010, 12:29 AM   #5
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Nearly all trains built in Europe built from 1990-2000 onwards have closed toilet systems, but as trains' live is long, there are still thousand of coaches built in 1970-1990 that are too old to have a closed system installed. New vehicles replacing them will certainly have closed WCs.
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Old September 5th, 2010, 12:46 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Nearly all trains built in Europe built from 1990-2000 onwards have closed toilet systems, but as trains' live is long, there are still thousand of coaches built in 1970-1990 that are too old to have a closed system installed. New vehicles replacing them will certainly have closed WCs.
I know, but why don't they retrofit old washrooms instead? If it is too expensive, they could retrofit one washroom per train set, and get rid of the others.
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Old September 5th, 2010, 01:55 AM   #7
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Don't think such toilets are still used in Germany. Wikipedia says its even illegal in Germany to have such open toilets in trains.
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Old September 5th, 2010, 02:24 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coccodrillo View Post
Nearly all trains built in Europe built from 1990-2000 onwards have closed toilet systems, but as trains' live is long, there are still thousand of coaches built in 1970-1990 that are too old to have a closed system installed. New vehicles replacing them will certainly have closed WCs.
Unless there is some kind of major difference in the design of the passenger coaches there, and coaches here (VIA Rail, Canada's 1950's era passenger cars that are still in use today), I don't see why it CAN'T be done. Aside from cost. VIA Upgraded their entire rolling stock, in regards to toilets. Even in the locomotives in general *Freight, as well as passenger), the system is closed, though not pumped out often enough...
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Old September 5th, 2010, 03:15 AM   #9
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In Holland's defense, I've witnessed many looks of disbelief as I've told (Dutch) people about this. It isn't accepted as normal or okay as far as I can tell; people merely tolerate it as one of those undesirable things from a bygone era that we continue to have to put up with, like impractically narrow streets or the Queen.

I couldn't quite believe it either the first time I flushed...

However, only 93%? I can't think of a Dutch train that does have closed-circuit toilets. The new Sprinters lack bathrooms altogether and Thalys and ICE sets aren't really NS trains.

The 1970s-era Intercity trains that are currently being refurbished aren't being equipped with closed-circuit toilets either. Same for the revamped Fyra sets.

But anyway, yes, it is rather unappetizing and they should do something about it. Amsterdam Centraal smells like a toilet.
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Old September 5th, 2010, 05:00 AM   #10
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The 93% figure takes into account Dutch ICE stock, the share of Thalys train sets that belong to the Dutch, newer NS stock that has closed toilet flushing systems and trains not fitted with washrooms or toilets.
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Old September 5th, 2010, 06:23 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
newer NS stock that has closed toilet flushing systems
Which stock would that be?
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Old September 5th, 2010, 07:00 AM   #12
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Apparently open toilet systems are allowed because along the right-of-way the track ballast acts as an effective septic system. Of course that does nothing for smelly deposits in train stations (I believe their are signs in toilets requesting that they not be used when the train is stopped), nor for the unfortunate track workers who may be sprayed by detritus from passing trains.
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Old September 5th, 2010, 07:12 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sergiogiorgini View Post
Which stock would that be?
I don't know the code, but I'm referring to the newest domestic double-decker stock, widespread used on Intercity routes.
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Old September 5th, 2010, 07:19 AM   #14
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This is extremely shocking. Are you kidding or is it really true ?

Trains in Malaysia never had something like this
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Old September 5th, 2010, 07:25 AM   #15
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Amtrak's older trains do it

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Old September 5th, 2010, 07:27 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyprince View Post
This is extremely shocking. Are you kidding or is it really true ?
VIEWER DISCRETION ADVISED!


We are dead serious. In busy Dutch train stations, you can easily smell urine and see white spots (e.g., toilet paper) on the tracks. Summer is particularly bad for that, for biological reasons.




On newer/converted Fyra services, this doesn't happen though (the username of the video updater is toitletmuseum ):
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Last edited by Suburbanist; September 5th, 2010 at 08:09 AM.
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Old September 5th, 2010, 07:35 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
VIEWER DISCRETION ADVISED!


We are dead serious. In busy Dutch train stations, you can easily smell urine and see white spots (e.g., toilet paper) on the tracks. Summer is particularly bad for that, for biological reasons.



On newer/converted Fyra services, this doesn't happen though (the username of the video updater is toiletflushforyou ):


This is the newer Intercity stock we talked about:
Dude , wtf thats gross and disgusting......I couldn't even eat my gummy bears.
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Last edited by Nexis; September 5th, 2010 at 07:46 AM.
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Old September 5th, 2010, 07:37 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
Dude , wtf thats gross and disgusting......I couldn't even eat my gummy bears.
It's from the "Toilet Museum" channel...

According to Wikipedia there are two main methods of waste disposal, save for direct spill on the tracks:

- chemical retention
- composting

The second method doesn't avoid releasing of wast over tracks, but allegedly do it as sanitized, harmless treated waste water (likewise water released back into a river after sewage processing, decontamination and treatment).
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Last edited by Suburbanist; September 5th, 2010 at 08:07 AM. Reason: correction
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Old September 5th, 2010, 07:47 AM   #19
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Quote:
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It's from the "Toilet Museum" channel...
why would you even post that here ? Only a Sick person posts that kind of stuff or even films it
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Old September 5th, 2010, 08:15 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k.k.jetcar View Post
Apparently open toilet systems are allowed because along the right-of-way the track ballast acts as an effective septic system. Of course that does nothing for smelly deposits in train stations (I believe their are signs in toilets requesting that they not be used when the train is stopped), nor for the unfortunate track workers who may be sprayed by detritus from passing trains.
And that is where problem comes. Workers perforimng maintenance are exposed to health hazards and unpleasant work conditions because of the use of these toilets!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fargo Wolf View Post
Unless there is some kind of major difference in the design of the passenger coaches there, and coaches here (VIA Rail, Canada's 1950's era passenger cars that are still in use today), I don't see why it CAN'T be done. Aside from cost. VIA Upgraded their entire rolling stock, in regards to toilets. Even in the locomotives in general *Freight, as well as passenger), the system is closed, though not pumped out often enough...
As I wrote before, while I understand there are some monetary constraints in retroffiting toilets, there should be no reason why they don't close most washrooms and let just 2 opened per train, but retroffited ones.

Newer regional commuter trains don't have wahsrooms in NL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sergiogiorgini View Post
In Holland's defense, I've witnessed many looks of disbelief as I've told (Dutch) people about this. It isn't accepted as normal or okay as far as I can tell; people merely tolerate it as one of those undesirable things from a bygone era that we continue to have to put up with, like impractically narrow streets or the Queen.

I couldn't quite believe it either the first time I flushed...
While a Republican moviment in NL is quite far-fetched at the moment, replacing washrooms is not. It is a technical procedure that doesn't affect rail systems, signaling, whatsoever.

That old Intercity stock is being renovated WITHOUT addition of modern toilets is unnaceptable. Those cars will remain in service for at least another 8 years.

In Italy many short-distance regional trains have most of their washrooms closed for good, but the overall state of rolling stock of those trains is poor (sometimes abysmal).
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