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Old January 26th, 2016, 01:49 AM   #3561
kix111
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I guess you may have been discussing the subway in a much wider context than I was. In Shanghai, I have never taken the subway outside of the inner ring. In London, I have never taken the Tube outside of zone 1. I am so used to living in the city centre, I forget there are still places in Shanghai outside of inner ring and/or places in London outside of zone 1.

I guess when you consider subway in this grand scheme, Shanghai's metro is definitely not as developed in terms of coverage as London Tube. Shanghai, counting for its suburban area, I believe is one of the largest cities in the world in terms of land area. But then, coming from a very ignorant native Shanghainese's point of view, I wouldn't even consider places like Qingpu a part of Shanghai.

Anyways, I still stand by my original point. For all my intent and purposes, using a subway as a mean of transportation within the urban area, I prefer the Shanghai metro way over the London Tube. I miss the smooth train rides, I miss having aircon inside the trains and the stations, I miss having cellular connection and checking my social network while taking the subway.
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Old January 26th, 2016, 02:41 AM   #3562
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I mean honestly, I dislike London Tube to a point that every time I take the Tube, I feel like I am penalising myself for being too lazy to find another viable means of transportation for me in London.

I absolutely hate the Tube for its hot, sweaty, and damp smell of mold, machinery, and coal. I hate how I see dust particles swirling around the staircases when I walk up the stairs. I hate it when the train enters the platform it creates a massive gust of wind. Couple that with the previous two points, all I can imagine is mold/dust particles being forced into my nostrils.

Furthermore, I hate how I usually have to wait 15 minutes outside Holborn station 6pm on a weekday before I can even step foot into the station. This is equivalent to waiting 6-7 trains.

But yeah, whatever, that is just my personal opinion and I may not be representative of a typical Londoner. On a positive note, London Tube may have better coverage, Victorian mosaic, and ultimately, I guess it gets the job done (except when strike happens). To quote NCT, "it is hard not to love the Tube" when you have these perks right? One thing I know that I will miss for sure though - is MIND THE GAP!!!


/rant
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Last edited by kix111; January 26th, 2016 at 02:47 AM.
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Old January 26th, 2016, 04:26 AM   #3563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaz965 View Post
when are they going to split line 3 from line 4?
It was a plan to do this , but the cost to compensate the neighbor who should be tore down is too high and it is too hard to negotiation with the China Railway Company for building new tracks above part of the CR's depot. So Shanghai government gave up undertaking the plan.

To upgrade the capacity of these two lines in alternative way , SH metro is purchasing more trains , expanding the depot of line 3 . Trains will run more frequently at northern part of line 3 .
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Old January 31st, 2016, 12:34 AM   #3564
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Shanghai Metro Line 16 unveils first 6 car train

3+3 linked train to start operating. I guess they finally acquired enough rolling stock to do this.





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Old January 31st, 2016, 02:30 PM   #3565
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It's uncommon for metro trains to have x+x configuration. Normally new cars are inserted in the middle to increase the capacity. Is it going to be a permanent configuration for all trains on Line 16? Will the trains eventually become 6-car instead of 3+3?
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Old January 31st, 2016, 03:41 PM   #3566
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I mean, they were originally running Line 16 trains only every 10 minutes at rush hour with 3-car trains. No wonder, these trains were become super-crowded.
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Old January 31st, 2016, 05:07 PM   #3567
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Is there really a global rolling stock shortage or is the issue only because of laws that require it all to be made domestically?
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Old January 31st, 2016, 06:23 PM   #3568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xeror View Post
It's uncommon for metro trains to have x+x configuration. Normally new cars are inserted in the middle to increase the capacity. Is it going to be a permanent configuration for all trains on Line 16? Will the trains eventually become 6-car instead of 3+3?
There are linked metro trains. Guangzhou uses 3+3 on their B1 series rolling stock for Line 3. So does the new DT5 trains on the Hamburg U-Bahn. Also the Berlin U-Bahn HK and IK stock run in a 4+4 consist.

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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Is there really a global rolling stock shortage or is the issue only because of laws that require it all to be made domestically?
I believe it is a protectionist issue where China is opening subways faster than they can build trains to service them. However, Shanghai Metro has been very slow to order trains compared to the other Tier 1 cities. Beijing and Shenzhen have been so far especially diligent at placing supplementary and optional orders for rolling stock to augment existing lines.
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Old January 31st, 2016, 09:03 PM   #3569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saiho View Post
There are linked metro trains. Guangzhou uses 3+3 on their B1 series rolling stock for Line 3. So does the new DT5 trains on the Hamburg U-Bahn. Also the Berlin U-Bahn HK and IK stock run in a 4+4 consist.
Is there any reason for this rather than inserting middle cars? It's definitely more expensive in this way because the cab cars are more expensive to build, and the platforms may need to be a little longer. Capacity may also be less.
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Old February 1st, 2016, 12:19 PM   #3570
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http://photo.weibo.com/1882290537/wb...5gwj20np0dyjx2

For reference

Here a chart shows new trains that purchased for Shanghai metro from 2013-2015

11*6-car-(A)train for line 1
33*6-car-(C)train for line 5
30*6-car-(A)train for line 7
11*4-car-robber type-train for line 8 phrase 3 (which is a new line independent from current line 8)
36*6-car-(A)train for line 9
36*6-car-(A)train for line 10
6*6-car-(A)train for line 11
15*6-car-(A)train for line 12
38*6-car-(A)train for line 13
49*8-car-(A)train for line 14(u/c)
54*6-car-(A)train for line 15(planned)
28*6-car-(A)train for line 17(u/c)
50*6-car-(A)train for line 18(planned)
6*4-car-(B)train for Pudong International Airport MRT
30*5-car-train for Songjiang Tram lines

There mainly are 4 types of size of metro train (steel-wheel type) in mainland China :
A: length: 20~23 meters ; width: 3 m ;height : 3.8 m , 5 doors each side of a car.
B: length: 19 meters ; width: 2.8 m ;height : 3.8 m , 4(or 3) doors each side of a car.
C: length: 19 meters ; width: 2.6 m ;height : 3.8 m , 4 doors each side of a car.
L(Linear motors): length: 17 meters ; width: 3 m ;height : 3.6 m , 3 doors each side of a car.
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Old February 6th, 2016, 02:24 AM   #3571
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Apparently Shanghai is working on a trolleybus eBRT line under the Yan'an Elevated Road. The design capacity is planned to be 15,000 ppl/hour/direction. This looks like it will be a local/distributor line with an average station spacing below 900m.

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Old February 12th, 2016, 03:07 PM   #3572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dixiadetie View Post
Here a chart shows new trains that purchased for Shanghai metro from 2013-2015

11*6-car-(A)train for line 1
33*6-car-(C)train for line 5
30*6-car-(A)train for line 7
11*4-car-robber type-train for line 8 phrase 3 (which is a new line independent from current line 8)
36*6-car-(A)train for line 9
36*6-car-(A)train for line 10
6*6-car-(A)train for line 11
15*6-car-(A)train for line 12
38*6-car-(A)train for line 13
49*8-car-(A)train for line 14(u/c)
54*6-car-(A)train for line 15(planned)
28*6-car-(A)train for line 17(u/c)
50*6-car-(A)train for line 18(planned)
6*4-car-(B)train for Pudong International Airport MRT
30*5-car-train for Songjiang Tram lines
Why do they need so many new trains on existing lines? I can guess for line 1 and 2 to replace old Siemens trains yet they are not that old: just 20 years. Will they be decommissioned? What about the other lines? Does Shanghai really want to replace ALL trains on ALL lines within just 3 years?

The second question deals with line 1: why 6-car trains and not 8-car EMUs?
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Old February 12th, 2016, 03:31 PM   #3573
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The second question has a simple answer: it is a typo by dixiadetie. The chart indeed states 8-car trains.
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Old February 12th, 2016, 11:38 PM   #3574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
Why do they need so many new trains on existing lines? I can guess for line 1 and 2 to replace old Siemens trains yet they are not that old: just 20 years. Will they be decommissioned? What about the other lines? Does Shanghai really want to replace ALL trains on ALL lines within just 3 years?

The second question deals with line 1: why 6-car trains and not 8-car EMUs?
How is this a lot of trains? Apart from line 1 these trains are most likely there to supplement more service.
Line 5, 9, 10 and 13 have major extensions opening next 2 years so it is natural that they need more trains.
Lines 11, 12 and 13 just had extensions completed. It's not surprising the additional train orders have been placed as they expect to ramp up service.
But the most important fact is that many Shanghai Metro lines have atrocious frequencies. Many lines run at headways of 3-5 min on the "busy" section during rush hours. The flood of train orders might have to do with the municipal government's recent pledge to reduce rush hour headways on all downtown lines to below 3 min by 2018.
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Old February 13th, 2016, 03:54 AM   #3575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dixiadetie View Post


http://photo.weibo.com/1882290537/wb...5gwj20np0dyjx2

For reference

Here a chart shows new trains that purchased for Shanghai metro from 2013-2015

11*6-car-(A)train for line 1
33*6-car-(C)train for line 5
30*6-car-(A)train for line 7
11*4-car-robber type-train for line 8 phrase 3 (which is a new line independent from current line 8)
36*6-car-(A)train for line 9
36*6-car-(A)train for line 10
6*6-car-(A)train for line 11
15*6-car-(A)train for line 12
38*6-car-(A)train for line 13
49*8-car-(A)train for line 14(u/c)
54*6-car-(A)train for line 15(planned)
28*6-car-(A)train for line 17(u/c)
50*6-car-(A)train for line 18(planned)
6*4-car-(B)train for Pudong International Airport MRT
30*5-car-train for Songjiang Tram lines

There mainly are 4 types of size of metro train (steel-wheel type) in mainland China :
A: length: 20~23 meters ; width: 3 m ;height : 3.8 m , 5 doors each side of a car.
B: length: 19 meters ; width: 2.8 m ;height : 3.8 m , 4(or 3) doors each side of a car.
C: length: 19 meters ; width: 2.6 m ;height : 3.8 m , 4 doors each side of a car.
L(Linear motors): length: 17 meters ; width: 3 m ;height : 3.6 m , 3 doors each side of a car.
According to the maps in Metro stations and other information I've found online, Line 15 is under construction now, not just planned.

Quote:
Why do they need so many new trains on existing lines? I can guess for line 1 and 2 to replace old Siemens trains yet they are not that old: just 20 years. Will they be decommissioned? What about the other lines? Does Shanghai really want to replace ALL trains on ALL lines within just 3 years?
Line 5 is getting many new trains not only for the extension south of the river that'll be opening in the future but also because the platforms for this line are being lengthened from 4 cars to 6 cars.
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Old February 13th, 2016, 11:04 AM   #3576
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Does any Chinese city use 8 car train sets for its subways?
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Old February 13th, 2016, 12:04 PM   #3577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Night City Dream_ View Post
Why do they need so many new trains on existing lines? I can guess for line 1 and 2 to replace old Siemens trains yet they are not that old: just 20 years. Will they be decommissioned? What about the other lines? Does Shanghai really want to replace ALL trains on ALL lines within just 3 years?

The second question deals with line 1: why 6-car trains and not 8-car EMUs?
Sorry for the mistake , 11 8-car train will be purchased for line 1 .
I think the old Siemens trains will be decommissioned at their 30s . Surely all the trains in the current lines will not be decommissioned at the moment .

With the lessen that not enough train for new lines or for the current lines (in the rush hour , the frequency of line 2 is just 3 min , far not enough) , resulting in heavy congestion , Shanghai metro fore seeing the growth of passengers and buy more trains in such a great amount to upgrade the capacity of each line , shorten the waiting time for the next train .
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Old February 13th, 2016, 12:28 PM   #3578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z0rg View Post
Does any Chinese city use 8 car train sets for its subways?
Guangzhou(广州): A type: line 11 , line 13
Shenzhen(深圳):A type: line 11 , line 14
Beijing(北京): line 6 (B Type) ; A type: line 3 , line 16 , line 17 , line 18 , line 19
Wuhan(武汉): B type:line 2 (reserved space for 8-car train , currently 6-car trains are running), line 7 , line 8 , line 11
Chongqing(重庆): Monorail: line 2(reserved space for 8-car train , now 4/6-car trains are running ) , line 3 ( now 6/8-car trains are running )
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Old February 15th, 2016, 07:33 AM   #3579
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Quote:
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How is this a lot of trains? Apart from line 1 these trains are most likely there to supplement more service.
Line 5, 9, 10 and 13 have major extensions opening next 2 years so it is natural that they need more trains.
Lines 11, 12 and 13 just had extensions completed. It's not surprising the additional train orders have been placed as they expect to ramp up service.
But the most important fact is that many Shanghai Metro lines have atrocious frequencies. Many lines run at headways of 3-5 min on the "busy" section during rush hours. The flood of train orders might have to do with the municipal government's recent pledge to reduce rush hour headways on all downtown lines to below 3 min by 2018.
OK, now that sounds a bit more reasonable but will that mean headways will no be very small, just like we do here in Moscow? Some 85 - 90 seconds between trains during rush hour and some 2 - 3 min in other time?

What major extensions do you mean for lines like 9 and 10 for example? I mean there will be an extension but still 30 EMUs more per each sounds a huge figure it is almost twice as much there are on these lines now. Okay, I can get it for line 10 since headways there now are awful but line 9 is quite well served + it won't have a very long extension.

I hope though Shanghai will have really decent headways and not only during rush hour.
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Old February 15th, 2016, 07:35 AM   #3580
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I miss having cellular connection and checking my social network while taking the subway.
Are there so many "gaps" on the Rube with no coverage?
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