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Old April 3rd, 2013, 06:12 AM   #14361
azn_man12345
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Can anyone confirm the height?
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Old April 3rd, 2013, 06:13 AM   #14362
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Looks fantastic. I'm not an engineer but this looks to be hugely over-engineered and with a double curtain wall, the carbon footprint is not even on the agenda. With all the massive construction in China its a shame they still don't give a shit about the enviroment. You could probably still achive these huge ***** extensions using half the resources. I look forward to when China starts to build more streamlined supertalls, for me thats when i will look upon in awe! Bring it on.
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All of which is nothing compared to the amount of energy required to manufacture the materials for this building. Why build it in the first place, ego.
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Originally Posted by Arch View Post
There's no need for that and i don't post on the shard forum. My criticisum of this building is quite just and you seem very offended by it. You should try to look at a building and see where improvments can be made. To me, this building is over engineered and the Architect has decided, wow lets have a double curtian wall and create huge atria, no ones ever done that! I know how they think, i am one. The engineer has then over compensated and made the structure twice as strong as it needs to be. All to the cost of the enviroment but that's ok because China's a developing nation so they can. I forgot to say the building looks great!
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Originally Posted by Supremacy_ View Post
Everything is big in China except....?
Apparently, Shanghai also has a couple of big balls. Maybe it's 'Feng shui' or just harmonious proportions .

China has the longest and most beautiful/productive canals too .
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Old April 3rd, 2013, 06:48 AM   #14363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch View Post
There's no need for that and i don't post on the shard forum. My criticisum of this building is quite just and you seem very offended by it. You should try to look at a building and see where improvments can be made. To me, this building is over engineered and the Architect has decided, wow lets have a double curtian wall and create huge atria, no ones ever done that! I know how they think, i am one. The engineer has then over compensated and made the structure twice as strong as it needs to be. All to the cost of the enviroment but that's ok because China's a developing nation so they can. I forgot to say the building looks great!
Building it right once is a sure way to make sure it will last for a long time. That should be one of the main qualities of LEED projects. That's not the issue. As much as I love skyscrapers, they are very inefficent. There is no need to build something this tall except for the fact that its cool.
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Old April 3rd, 2013, 09:00 AM   #14364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch View Post
There's no need for that and i don't post on the shard forum. My criticisum of this building is quite just and you seem very offended by it. You should try to look at a building and see where improvments can be made. To me, this building is over engineered and the Architect has decided, wow lets have a double curtian wall and create huge atria, no ones ever done that! I know how they think, i am one. The engineer has then over compensated and made the structure twice as strong as it needs to be. All to the cost of the enviroment but that's ok because China's a developing nation so they can. I forgot to say the building looks great!
First post by a long time lurker. Hello everyone.

Yes, this building seems to be an absolute fortress. The double layer of glass cladding made me wonder: could this be a Faraday cage surrounding the building? If so, I believe it could be put to other-than-ordinary uses. I think I've stuck my neck out far enough on my first post here, therefore I hesitate to speculate on what those uses might be. However, if any of you have more than a passing knowledge of Faraday cage technology, I'd be very interested to hear what you have to say on this.
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Old April 3rd, 2013, 01:23 PM   #14365
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A conductive enclosure is required for a faraday cage. This building isn't anywhere close to that. In fact, due to use of concrete in construction rather than just steel, it is more transparent than many other buildings.

As for this LEED aside, the double glass facade doesn't make the building more durable nor make it require less maintenance. LEED is a good idea but also misses significant factors such as necessity or energy used for the building's end users to commute everyday. For example, some of the highest scoring buildings are built with zero mass transit accessibility. It is a good trend but also not a complete metric. It is mostly just a marketing and tax break tool.
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Old April 3rd, 2013, 02:09 PM   #14366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goocher View Post
First post by a long time lurker. Hello everyone.

Yes, this building seems to be an absolute fortress. The double layer of glass cladding made me wonder: could this be a Faraday cage surrounding the building? If so, I believe it could be put to other-than-ordinary uses. I think I've stuck my neck out far enough on my first post here, therefore I hesitate to speculate on what those uses might be. However, if any of you have more than a passing knowledge of Faraday cage technology, I'd be very interested to hear what you have to say on this.
The gaps are too big in the frame to disrupt electromagnetic radiation of any kind. However, it would probably shield the building from lightning strikes.
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Old April 3rd, 2013, 02:27 PM   #14367
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ST's FAQs answered here:

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Old April 3rd, 2013, 03:01 PM   #14368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
That the building is twice as strong has value and increases the building's resilience and lifespan.

Visitors, tenants, lessors and lessees feel more confident and secure knowing the building is very strong and over built.

I guess they do not teach that over engineering for longevity is good in Architectural and Engineering curricula, anymore.

That you dismiss this added value as meaningless and favour the environment over all other concerns, is troubling.
I find this mentality troubling. Actually, I find it utterly disgraceful. To simply dismiss the environmental impact of a superfluous 'added value' of this development is amazing to me
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Old April 3rd, 2013, 03:29 PM   #14369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by China Hand View Post
That the building is twice as strong has value and increases the building's resilience and lifespan.

Visitors, tenants, lessors and lessees feel more confident and secure knowing the building is very strong and over built.

I guess they do not teach that over engineering for longevity is good in Architectural and Engineering curricula, anymore.

That you dismiss this added value as meaningless and favour the environment over all other concerns, is troubling.
Unbelievable, you have just highlighted the whole problem, the way you think. How you can dismiss the environment in favor of "added value" are you mad. What IS troubling is you deluded mentality is quite typical to how you all think. The environment is secondary especially if it gets in the way of progress, and anything else for that matter, peoples homes and communities just get bulldozed. It saddens me to think how far China has come but still how far you have to go.
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Old April 3rd, 2013, 05:57 PM   #14370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch View Post
Unbelievable, you have just highlighted the whole problem, the way you think. How you can dismiss the environment in favor of "added value" are you mad. What IS troubling is you deluded mentality is quite typical to how you all think. The environment is secondary especially if it gets in the way of progress, and anything else for that matter, peoples homes and communities just get bulldozed. It saddens me to think how far China has come but still how far you have to go.
Yeah, just throw them all in the same pot...
BTW as far as I know China Hand isn't even Chinese. (@China Hand: Sorry, if I'm wrong)

Do you have any proof that Shanghai Tower has a bigger environmental impact than other supertalls constructed around the world? (not just your guessing)

No one is pointing his finger at your Shard (assuming you're from London) for only having a silver LEED certification. So don't do it the other way around.

Skyscrapers (especially supertalls) are indeed inefficient, but not only in China...everywhere.
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Old April 3rd, 2013, 07:32 PM   #14371
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image hosted on flickr

More pics from morning run by bikeracersl, on Flickr
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The three amigos of the super high rises in Shanghai all three are over 350 meters tall with the new one toping out at over 600 meters by bikeracersl, on Flickr
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Old April 4th, 2013, 01:22 AM   #14372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfredo View Post
Yeah, just throw them all in the same pot...
BTW as far as I know China Hand isn't even Chinese. (@China Hand: Sorry, if I'm wrong)

Do you have any proof that Shanghai Tower has a bigger environmental impact than other supertalls constructed around the world? (not just your guessing)

No one is pointing his finger at your Shard (assuming you're from London) for only having a silver LEED certification. So don't do it the other way around.

Skyscrapers (especially supertalls) are indeed inefficient, but not only in China...everywhere.
Take heart, nobody is criticizing a nationality in this particular discussion. There's no need to bring that into it.

In fact, I don't think there has been that dramatic criticism of this tower relative to others. The commentary has been more related to the double layer design, LEED status and if it matches up with the true environmental impact.

It is all to easy to let such an analysis lead to open ended arguing so lets try to stay on topic.

I'm truly interested in the environmental impact of this building as well as others. Is the outer skin a net good for the environment? In the long run does it save or waste energy? Etc...

The same architect is building a LEED certified highrise in my city. It is called The Tower at PNC Plaza and it too has a double skin. This is what sparked my interest in the subject. Here is a link to that tower: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1385932
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Old April 4th, 2013, 03:08 AM   #14373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inefekt View Post
I find this mentality troubling. Actually, I find it utterly disgraceful. To simply dismiss the environmental impact of a superfluous 'added value' of this development is amazing to me
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch View Post
Unbelievable, you have just highlighted the whole problem, the way you think. How you can dismiss the environment in favor of "added value" are you mad. What IS troubling is you deluded mentality is quite typical to how you all think. The environment is secondary especially if it gets in the way of progress, and anything else for that matter, peoples homes and communities just get bulldozed. It saddens me to think how far China has come but still how far you have to go.
The two of you are 'pressed' (China Hand clearly did not suggest such allegation from you two).

Building tall buildings in China is one of the most sensible, responsible and efficient ways to improve their living standards.

Some of the buildings in China are quite pretty. Deal with it!
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Old April 4th, 2013, 05:02 AM   #14374
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Imho, Pudong skyline is full of yucky buildings, bit damn, those 3 supertall masterpieces (ST, SWFC, Jin Mao) make it breathtaking
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Old April 4th, 2013, 05:11 AM   #14375
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Originally Posted by KillerZavatar View Post
yeah the angle is quite uncommon, that is true
HAHAHA omg i thought it was a new building!
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Old April 4th, 2013, 05:33 AM   #14376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch View Post
There's no need for that and i don't post on the shard forum. My criticisum of this building is quite just and you seem very offended by it. You should try to look at a building and see where improvments can be made. To me, this building is over engineered and the Architect has decided, wow lets have a double curtian wall and create huge atria, no ones ever done that! I know how they think, i am one. The engineer has then over compensated and made the structure twice as strong as it needs to be. All to the cost of the enviroment but that's ok because China's a developing nation so they can. I forgot to say the building looks great!
You design something better and then we'll talk. Until then, stop hating on people that are far more successful than you will ever be. There is a reason why they are at the top and you are nameless.
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Old April 4th, 2013, 07:17 AM   #14377
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Originally Posted by Rise To The Top View Post

You design something better and then we'll talk. Until then, stop hating on people that are far more successful than you will ever be. There is a reason why they are at the top and you are nameless.
Why are you hating on Arch? From what I've read of his post, he's making a whole lot of sense.
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Old April 4th, 2013, 07:35 AM   #14378
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paired by matteroffact, on Flickr
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straight up by matteroffact, on Flickr
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shutta by matteroffact, on Flickr
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Old April 4th, 2013, 08:51 AM   #14379
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Nice view of ST from the beautiful park.....
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Old April 4th, 2013, 10:20 AM   #14380
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From these two pics i would say it's above 500m now.
If you look at the concrete core it seems to me i can see the mechanical floors for the next belt trust, which is at arround 480m if i'm not wrong.
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china, gensler, hypertall, lujiazui financial center, pudong, pudong new area, shanghai, shanghai center, supertall

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