Indian Civil Aviation Industry

[dayalbaba]

Originally Posted by think-tank

yep, i recommend that you join Indian Defense

too many newbie school kids there. I prefer bharatrakshak.

[p2p4]

My friend Sammyk (and pro-defense aviation posters)

Exactly because we do not want to see the aviation thread of SSCi INVITE the invective and fanboy syndromes that most other military aviation forums do. Just imagine the kind of usual drub that will go on over here in a span of time if say, for example, I start a thread or make a fleeting comment on J-10 of our western neighbor and a holy vitriolic knee-jerk war can start with half of North West Frontier and Punjab province of Pak attacking our humble and civil , Civil Aviation thread

It was therefore mutually decided (long time ago) that at least the SSCI section of Indian Aviation should be limited to civil aviation development issues and not just random postings and consequential comments of Tejas, Jaguars, Migs & F-16s and MMRCA.

I am sure you have visited www.keypublishing.com (of whom I am a forumer as well) to see how rabidly wild some people get over even the most simplistic of comments.

This is my side of the perspective on this issue and I stand firm that this thread be kept off all military discussions (which could invite Pakis , Cheeenas, Iranis , Brits, self imposing Americans and a spare footloose Yemeni Arab )

Cheers mate
p2p4

Originally Posted by sammyk

Most idiotic rule ever and the justification is even worse. Just that mods don't want to deal with the arguments that come with it. If they don't have time then they should get more mods.

Think about it, the justification is that there are other sites to discuss defense related topics. Well, there are other sites to discuss most topics on SSCI such as the auto industry (TeamBHP), railways (IRFCA), aviation (Airliners India), etc. Why allow those topics?

Pure nonsense.

[p2p4]

Originally Posted by dayalbaba

too many newbie school kids there. I prefer bharatrakshak.

BR is also full of overgrown longdongsilver armchair generals who are better at playing PS2 wars than actually grunting it out in the heat and dust of Indian Armed forces.

I gave up on that site long back !!!

(MODs may delete this comment)

[Patriot.]

NAL seeks pvt partners to sell micro-aerial vehicle.

The public sector defence lab, National Aerospace Laboratories (NAL), is looking for more private sector partners to commerialise its research. The lab is presently in advanced stages of commercialising its domestically-designed single-engine five-seater general aviation aircraft jointly with Mahindra Aerospace Pvt Ltd (MAPL).

“We want to engage the private sector for many more projects under the public private partnership model. In fact, we have not succeeded in getting any private sector company to partner us for commercialising Hansa, a light passenger aircraft. But, we have Mahindra Group participating with us for NM5-100, a five-seater aircraft. We are now looking for private sector to partner us to commercialise Micro Air Vehicles (MAV),” A R Upadhya, director, NAL said.
NAL also recently signed an agreement with the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) to commercially manufacture Saras, a light passenger aircraft, he said.

Addressing a press conference after the CSIRNAL Foundation Day celebrations, he said, NAL wants to commercialise more and more technologies developed by it over the last few years. The experimental aerodynamics division of NAL, which is jointly headed by G Ramesh, developed the MAV over the last three years.

MAV is a small vehicle, which is an unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV), and can be used for various strategic and civilian applications. Already, the Chandigarh police and the Karnataka government have come forward to use the MAV for rally monitoring and mapping mining areas respectively.

“We have demonstrated the capabilities of MAV to Chandigarh police and delivered them two units for pilot project. The Karnataka government has indicated its requirement for mapping the mining areas in the state. We are yet to give them a demonstration,” Upadhya said.

MAV can also be deployed for surveillance by the armed forces and used in disaster management like in floods among others, he added.

Hemant Luthra, President, Systech Sector & Member of the Group Executive Board, Mahindra & Mahindra Ltd, said the test flight of NM5-100 aircraft would be done by the Diwali festival in Australia. “After securing the certification from Australian authorities the aircraft will be taken for test flights in India by mid-2012. We will then apply for clearance from the Director General Civil Aviation (DGCA) later on and launch it for commercial use thereafter.”

He said Mahindra Group has also come forward to join hands with NAL to commercialise the MAV developed by NAL. “We have just shown our willingness to partner with NAL. We will be happy to commercialise it as and when they offer it to us,” he said.

In the next five years, Mahindra Group is looking at a revenue of $125 million to $150 million from its aerospace business that includes both sale of aircraft and components, he said.

[dayalbaba]

Originally Posted by p2p4

BR is also full of overgrown longdongsilver armchair generals who are better at playing PS2 wars than actually grunting it out in the heat and dust of Indian Armed forces.

I gave up on that site long back !!!

(MODs may delete this comment)

I think you are mistaken about what forums are for (hint : not watering holes of military men but a place for discussion). most members at BR are not ex military and neither do they claim to be. but they are very well informed and better than most places on the net. it also has people from military and industry that other forums don't. their IAF webmaster Jagan got a commendation medal from chief of IAF. etc.

to each his own. you prefer a light hearted fanboy discussion, I prefer a bit more serious informative discussion.

[p2p4]

Let's not put words into each others mouths ! I never said I prefer fanboy discussions but merely provided an example of how this particular thread can go into vitriol

Read my post again if you wish. As for BR, PakDef, and other such sites, enuff said as they speak for themselves.

Now shall we get back to what this thread is meant to be - INDIAN C I V I L Aviation and its 'homegrown' developments

Originally Posted by dayalbaba

to each his own. you prefer a light hearted fanboy discussion, I prefer a bit more serious informative discussion.

[Vicky007]

I fully agree that Civil aviation related matter should only be reflected on this thread and there is a firm need to avoid anything that would bring trolling on SSCi. At the same time:

No one needs to pass any Value Judgement on any defence website least of all on BR.

It is the "go to" website for anything related not only to Defence but more important on anything related to "Strategic Matters".

Who is anyone to say BR is bad when the Best Known Defence Strategist that India has ever produced Honourable Shri K Subramaniam has acknowladged BR as the best.

BR is far better then the self proclaimed Defence experts(Nothing more then Glorified Blogsters) who are often paid agents to push a particular manufacturers viewpoint.Heck some of these blogsters themselves skim BR for material to publish under their name and have been more often then not been caught and bitch-slapped by the readers on that site.

For everybody's info 3 of India's best known Defence reporters from Business Standard, NDTV and Janes Defence weekly are regular members and also contributors to the BR site. India's foremost Security related expert who writes on Rediff.com has himself admitted to gaining insight from expert postings on BR. These are just famous names,there are other countless jounalists including some very senior Editors who on some of the columns that they have writtten reflected the popular sentiment of BR posters.Hell they have ended up more often using the same lingo.

A majority of the BR posters (Posters - not readers) are very very knowladgeable and are themselves ex Defence or have other R&D PSU background so when they post,it is something you can gain knowladge from unlike the self proclaimed blogsters who dont even know their ICV from a Tank. Need i write something more? Believe me i can write much more with names of such guys and specific examples.

I am not carrying any brief for anybody but having followed the Indian Strategic Space for such a long time wanted to set the "Record Straight".

Admins can delete this posting which i would not have posted had it not been for such crude downplaying of a good and prestigious website.

[Patriot.]

Multi-mission aircraft's first prototype soon.

The first prototype of multi-mission five-seater aircraft, NM5-100, jointly developed by Council of Scientific and Industrial Research – National Aerospace Laboratories (CSIR-NAL) and Mahindra Aerospace Limited will fly anytime in the coming days in Australia.

It is expected to complete the certification programme by the end of 2013.
But wait for NAL’s version of the prototype, despite NAL being the designer of the aircraft, will be long.

Speaking to Deccan Herald, NAL’s Sridhar Murthy said: “Mahindra’s Gippsland Aeronautics is making the first prototype in Australia and it is expected to fly anytime. May be in a week or two.”

Designed at CISR-NAL, the NM5-100 is the first aircraft developed under public-private partnership with Mahindra Aerospace Limited and can be used for varied applications, including pilot-training, air ambulance, cargo purposes besides for tourism promotion.
The prototype, subject to the Directorate General of Civil Aviation’s (DGCA) certification under the FAR23 regulations will be put through elaborate tests before being taken to the production level.

Competing with the Cessna aircraft which India uses for multi-missions, NAL officials claimed the NM5-100 would reduce costs by at least 15 to 20 per cent.

Also, the Mahindra group will, in order to take the aircraft to the global market, prepare prototypes for international certification.

There was no confirmation on the second prototype from both the stables, which was part of the original plan.

Murthy said that the NAL’s version of the prototype, being manufactured in Bangalore, would be ready to fly in the first quarter of next year, followed by flight testing and documentation for certification.

Sources in the NAL said that Union Science and Technology Minister Vilasrao Deshmukh, who visited NAL on Monday, took stock of the progress made in the project, besides reviewing other projects.

Deshmukh, in his speech at the CSIR-NAL foundation day, said that Centre was committed to provide about Rs 4,000 crore for the design and development of the proposed National Civil Aircraft Development Programme, aimed at providing regional connectivity.

Deccan Herald

[murlee]

Mahindra Group successfully test-flies a five-seater aircraft

In what is being described as a milestone for both the country’s indigenous civil aviation and the public-private partnership programmes, the software-to-transportation Mahindra group in collaboration with CSIR National Aerospace Laboratories has successfully test-flown a five-seater aircraft. The project, which took three years to move from the drawing board to the skies, is billed to revolutionize Indian transportation over the next decade.

The aircraft has completed five tests in the last ten days and it could take six months or more before it gets the FAR 23 certification, which guarantees the highest standards of safety. It could then go for commercial development. Once ready, each aircraft is expected to cost around $400,000 (about Rs 2 crore) and would also be the first such commercial aircraft in the world which offers afive seat configuration.

For the Mahindra group, it is the second leap into aviation after it acquired the Australiabased aircraft maker Gippsland Aviation about two years ago. For the $12.5-billion Mahindra group, it’s like reliving its own heritage and marks the third major intervention for the group in transportation after the introduction of Jeep in the mid-40s and Scorpio in 2002—both of which left an indelible mark on the country’s transportation roadmap. “It may not have the sex appeal of jets but it would open up areas which were virtually not accessible earlier and aviation would become an alternate mode of transport to connect such remote locations,” a visibly excited Anand Mahindra told TOI describing the reach and potential of the initiative. Top group officials compared the potential of the programme to the Scorpio, the group’s SUV, which helped increased the M&M market cap around 50 times, seen to have been the game changer for the group. It also brings Anand Mahindra, one small step closer to his cherished dream of being the Embraer (a Brazilian aircraft manufacturer) of India. “It has the potential of democratizing aviation,” he added.

The running cost of the aircraft (in terms of per seat km) would be only 30% more expensive than a car, Hemant Luthra, chairman of Mahindra Aerospace said. The market for small aircraft (20 seats and below) started to de-grow in 2007 and stands at roughly 2000 a year and is expected to turn the corner in 2011 with a small growth, he said. The main competitors for Mahindra in the segment include Cessna and Piper. CSIR director general Samir Brahmachari, is equally excited.

“We have done several PPPs, including a few in the aviation space (components) but this is the first one on the skies. Among others, it would play a crucial role in tourism and transportation of small cargoes, especially flowers. It’s an example of how Indian industry has come forward to partner with the scientific community to make adifference,” he said. According to A Rinku, the project team leader from the CSIR NAL side, the responsibility of most of the design rests with it while Mahindra Aerospace is responsible for developing and manufacturing it.

The project itself has not been without challenges. Though work on the prototype started in India, it had to shift mid-way to Australia due to certain “regulatory constraints” where the Mahindra group had acquired Gippsland. Mahindra describes it as the side bar of globalization. The project team itself, consisting of about 23 people, was largely sourced from the engineering services team of M&M. It was led by Karthik Krishnamurthy who had experience on some projects outsourced by NASA. Being developed as an aircraft with a frugal mindset, it started out with a small budget of $15 million. The aircraft is ideal as an air taxi operator and for distances of about 300 km, Mahindra Aerospace CEO Arvind Mehra said.

It is now investing another Rs 300 crore to set up a component facility in Bangalore while Gippsland is working on a plan to launch a 10-seater aircraft by 2013 and an 18-seater aircraft by 2014.

http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Defau...=1315983724730

[Patriot.]

video link

[dumbassmus]

I really hate smileys. But news like this demands

[adam_india]

[rockystone]

India now eyes 110-seater, 3200 km design range civil aircraft

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/10756126.cms

Promoters of India's proposed maiden regional civil aircraft are looking at enhancing its design range to 3200 km and also its seating capacity to 110, a key official behind the project said today.

The high powered committee on National Civil Aircraft Development (NCAD) has till now said it is looking to design and develop a 70-90 seater aircraft with a design range of 2,500 km.

"Now we are looking at up to 110 (seating capacity)", said A R Upadhya, a member of HPC, who recently retired as Director of National Aerospace Laboratories belonging to Council of Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR), which is spearheading the proposed project.

"We are looking at increasing the range from 2,500 km to 3,200 km so that it will have some international operations as well (in addition to domestic one)", Upadhya said at the inaugural function of fifth symposium on applied aerodynamics and design of aerospace vehicles (SAROD-2011) here. "We are looking at standard configuration as well as long range configuration with increase in capacity in wing area...," he added.

The HPC, chaired by former Chairman of Indian Space Research Organisation ( ISRO) G Madhavan Nair, has set a target of lower costs of acquisition, maintenance and operations and fuel consumption by at least 25 per cent in each of these areas vis-a-vis this proposed aircraft.

The proposed aircraft can take-off from a runway range of 1,600 metres and also from ill-equipped airfields. Regional aircraft requirement in India in the next 20 years is projected to be 350 from the civil side and 100 military, Upadhya said.

HPC has already looked at engines manufactured by global majors Pratt & Whitney, Safran, Rolls-Royce and GE. "We are looking at various (engine) options (for our regional civil aircraft)", Upadhya added. A sum of Rs 7,555 crore is the estimated requirement for the project, of which Rs 4,355 crore is for design and development and Rs 3,200 crore for series production phase.

The Planning Commission has recommended that CSIR move a Cabinet Note for in-principle approval of the programme. A cabinet approval is round the corner, officials said.

The HPC with experts drawn from the government, industry, financial institutions and regulatory authority, among others, is formally overseeing the project, and it would structure a joint venture with Public Private Partnership and evolve an organisational structure for a new entity, officials said.

Upadhya noted that among the BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India, China) countries, only India does not have a civil aircraft industry that's not mature. "It's an appropriate time to launch a major initiative in capability building in civil aircraft design and development and lay a strong foundation," he said.

[Patriot.]

Russia offers co-production of passenger jets

Ahead of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s visit to Russia next week, Moscow has, for the first time, offered co-production of five passenger aircraft in India, including the 90-seater Sukhoi 100 Superjet. This is the first attempt at taking cooperation beyond military aviation.

Apart from the Sukhoi, the other aircraft Russia has put up on offer are — TU-204 series with a capacity of 200-plus passengers, AN-148 with seating capacity ranging from 75 to 100, MS-21 with 150-200 passenger capacity and the 70-seater BE-200, which is also used for fire-fighting, patrolling as well as search and rescue missions.

While preliminary discussions have already taken place between both sides in the run up to the visit, India has to take a call based on the assessment of its own efforts to build an indigenous civilian aircraft. The Prime Minister had set up a national task force to study the feasibility of such a project under the chairmanship of former ISRO chairman G Madhavan Nair. The report, which was submitted six months ago, had said that India has the capability to develop a 90-seater indigenous civilian aircraft over a period of five years at a cost of about Rs 8,300 crore. It had suggested creation of the National Civilian Aircraft Development Authority for this purpose and until then, recommended that the task force function as the coordinating body.

However, the project seems to have got caught in departmental rivalry with the Council of Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR) still not processing the papers for Cabinet consideration. CSIR’s National Aerospace Laboratories, sources said, wants to be the nodal agency for the project while the committee had found the facility inadequate.

Russia, on the other hand, has suggested that its offer should be treated separately, on the lines of existing joint collaboration in the military field like the Brahmos venture, Sukhoi MKI and the ongoing joint efforts like building a fifth generation fighter aircraft. Co-production in India, according to Russian officials, will improve commercial prospects of these planes which are currently used by a handful of airlines in a market dominated by US and European aircraft makers.

As of now, New Delhi has agreed to carry the conversation forward and explore its commercial possibilities. Moscow is keen to elevate this to a higher level during the visit to ensure political consideration for India to enter the aviation market.

While this offer is being weighed against the project for an indigenous aircraft, officials admit that India’s own aviation technology has never really taken off and it needs not just expertise but also creation of high-level ancillary industry for this purpose.

[murlee]

Plan panel to allocate Rs 5000 crore to develop civilian plane

Council of Scientific and Industrial Research’s ambitious plans to develop a 90-seater passenger aircraft are set to get a boost with the Planning Commission expected to allocate Rs 5,000 crore for the project in the 12th Five Year Plan.

“The Planning Commission is expected to sanction Rs 5,000 crore for the design and development phase of the project in the 12th Plan,” officials said.

The civilian aircraft project was proposed by a 15-member High Powered Committee (HPC) for National Civil Aircraft Development (NCAD), set up by the CSIR in May 2010 under the aegis of former ISRO Chairman G. Madhavan Nair.

The HPC had recommended that the government should fund the development phase of the aircraft and suggested a joint venture with a private partner for the production phase.

However, the Planning Commission suggested creation of a joint venture (JV) with private equity participation for both the development phase as well as for the production phase.

Acting on the plan panel’s suggestion, the CSIR had set up a committee chaired by former Finance Secretary Vijay Kelkar to the identify industry partner for the joint venture and suggest equity structure for it.

The joint venture will have to be structured in such a way that it ensures that linkages are maintained between both the phases, the officials said.

The Kelkar Committee is expected to float Expression of Interest inviting private participation in the design and development phase of a 90-seater Regional Transport Aircraft.

The officials said a consortium of aerospace industry companies, on the line of the Europe’s Airbus Industries, would be a desirable option.

“A total of seven prototypes are proposed to be developed by CSIR-NAL to prove the design and demonstrate compliance with respect to airworthiness requirements and certification,” said a 12th Plan working group report for CSIR.

The aircraft will be tailored to suit Indian requirements and is expected to have attractive operating economics.

As per aviation market projections, the country will require about 500-600 regional aircraft, while the global market is estimated to be about 5,000-6,000 aircraft.

A technical committee, chaired by aerospace engineer Roddam Narasimha, is examining the the NCAD programme and guiding CSIR-NAL to create a detailed document for its implementation and identifying the work modules.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nationa...cle2822788.ece

[think-tank]

Airbus plans innovation cell in Bangalore

TOULOUSE , FRANCE: Airbus plans to make India a hub as it is in the process of setting up an innovation cell in Bangalore . The cell will be led by an Indian though no name is announced yet. According to sources, Ardhendu Pathak, who was earlier with GE Industrial Solution, is a leading contender for the post.

"We see future of aviation industry lies in Asia," said Tom Enders, president and CEO of Airbus. Sources said China and India are among the biggest and fastest growing markets for aviation, with the Asia Pacific region accounting for 32% of aircraft deliveries of Airbus. Kiran Rao, executive V-P (marketing and contracts), Airbus, said the innovation cell will start work from 2013 and will function alongside the existing engineering facility in Bangalore . "It will work on the next generation aircraft for 2030, 2040, 2050 and more," he said.

Airbus plans to increase its workforce to around 450 in India in the next couple of years from 300 at present, that will include its workforce for the innovation cell. A new pilot training centre in Greater Noida is expected to start operations from the middle of 2013. Airbus estimates that Asia Pacific market will need 9,160 aircraft over 20 years with countries like India and China, and markets like Africa, Latin America and eastern Europe expected to record 6% growth in revenue passenger/km. These regions saw nearly 6 billion persons taking to skies in 2011. "We expect that Asia-Pacific region will account for 32%, (the highest), of the total delivery," said John Leahy, COO (customers), Airbus.

source

[karkal]

Delhi, Chennai to get aviation hubs

New Delhi, Jun 6 (PTI) To turn India into an aviation hub by expanding regional and international connectivity, a high level meeting on infrastructure chaired by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh today decided to operationalise airline hubs at Delhi and Chennai by the next fiscal. An airline policy would be finalised in this regard, it was decided in the meeting. The policy has been formulated because of fear of loss of outbound air traffic from India to adjoining airports such as Dubai and Singapore. Under the policy, a series of steps are entailed which include improvement of connectivity and making visa processing easier so that more passengers fly from India to destinations in Europe and America. To further boost aviation infrastructure, it was decided to award three new greenfield projects in Financial Year 2013 at Navi Mumbai, Goa and Kannur. The meeting, attended by ministers of infrastructure ministries like power, coal, aviation, shipping and road transport, was called as part of an exercise to boost investment sentiment in the country. By July-end, additional PPP projects would be finalised for 10-12 existing airports and for 10-12 greenfield airports. These would be awarded during the year, it was decided in the meeting. Lucknow, Varanasi, Coimbatore, Trichy and Gaya are the likely locations where three to four international airports could be declared this year. Meanwhile, total investment on AAI projects has been pegged at Rs 2,100 crore. The Prime Minister felt that the targets set are ambitious and impressive and they are a significant scale up over earlier performance.

[Krishnamoorthy K]

Ullekh NP, ET Bureau | Jul 28, 2012, 07.32PM IST

NEW DELHI: Reliance Industries Ltd (RIL) is expected to invest close to $1 billion over the next few years and hire around 1,500 people in its new aerospace division.

Details of RIL's plans were confirmed to ET by executives close to the matter who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

Early this month, the Mukesh Ambani-led company applied for an industrial licence with the department of industrial policy and Promotion to "design, develop, manufacture, equipment and components, including airframe, engine, radars, avionics and accessories for military and civilian aircraft, helicopters, unmanned airborne vehicles and aerostats".

This decision by RIL comes after the creation of two new entities: Reliance Aerospace Technologies Pvt Ltd and Reliance Security Solutions Ltd.

The creation of these new businesses was set in motion more than a year ago when RIL created an entity called "new business" and hired the then Boeing India chief, Vivek Lall, for launching its aerospace and homeland security divisions.

The application with DIPP further discloses that "the company will also undertake research and produce new aerospace technologies, materials, components and equipment and test and carry out their certification".

RIL will also join hands with global players to bring in sophisticated civil and military aerospace technologies into the country, executives close to the matter said. It will also prioritise research and development and testing and certification of new aerospace technologies, materials, components and equipment.

In its application to DIPP, RIL has indicated Nashik as the headquarters for its aerospace division - the town is expected to be the centre of the proposed manufacturing hub. The company, executives said, will gradually set up more manufacturing units across the country with the aim of making India a global hub in aerospace manufacturing.

RIL also intends to align with smaller players and train them to produce high-quality products for the airline industry.

RIL is looking at creating synergies to begin with, until it develops technologies - and aircraft - on its own. It is in advanced talks with global aircraft majors for JVs and strategic collaborations, executives close to the matter said.

TOI