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Old December 11th, 2009, 12:19 AM   #1
El_duque
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Talking Planes de Transportación para Puerto Rico 2030

No sé si ya alguien puso esto, pero por si acaso, aquí está. Exploren y opinen.

http://www.dtop.gov.pr/SAUP/PTM_2030/default.htm
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Old December 11th, 2009, 08:56 AM   #2
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UGH! Whoever wrote this is so overly against rail it's disgusting.

"In its highest-capacity form, BRT consists of buses operating on their own guideway, separated from other traffic. Passenger-carrying capacities under this design approach those of grade-separated rail transit. BRT could also involve buses operating in an exclusive lane on an expressway or street, possibly with exclusive ramps or the ability to pre-empt traffic signals to facilitate bus movement."

YOURE ONE F#@$ING STEP FROM RAIL! Guess what that step is...RAILS! Seriously, they're calling for a separate guideway for the buses with exclusive ramps. That's a LOT of new infrastructure that you would be building with a train anyway, so why not just go with the more efficient option and build the train? And Tren Del Norte being BRT too!? Rail can tackle both freight and passenger transportation issues, but no...let's build a useless BRT that will run parallel to the intercity coach bus service that we proposed in the same plan. These people have NO brains. This is not a bias speaking, this is fact. They would spend the same amount of money on this infrastructure whether it be rail or BRT. With rail the only additional cost is rail, signals, and more expensive but MUCH longer lasting vehicles.

I don't think rail is the answer to ALL the transportation issues on the island. The island wide intercity coach bus service is a great idea, especially for Caguas-Ponce, PR-10, and several of the other corridors they listed. Enhanced publico service is a perfect idea for reaching deeper into the smaller communities. Ferry service is great for waterfront communities like Arecibo.
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Old December 11th, 2009, 07:53 PM   #3
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At least they're planning to expand the TU system to Minillas and to Canovanas.

I also see there are many connectors planned but they are way too expensive in my opinion, don't know why...

I see they're planning to make PR-1 an expressway/freeway from PR-20 to PR-52, I've always proposed that.

And PR-3 in Canovanas being upgraded to expressway/freeway...

Aunque no haya dinero pero creo que este plan en vez de ser 2030 debe ser 2020 pues son cosas que se necesitan urgentemente.

Creo que los proyectos de freeway y los connectors todos pueden ser hechos mediante PPP's y pues con peajes esas companias sacarian dinero. El Gobierno recibiria dinero mediante los PPP's que podrian usar para todos los otros proyectos...

Last edited by Bori427; December 11th, 2009 at 08:03 PM.
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Old December 12th, 2009, 12:33 AM   #4
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I may have read it wrong, but it appears the Carolina extension of TU isn't actually TU, but BRT. It says that in several areas, but one of the maps shows a line out to Canovanas and up to Minillas as TU, but according to all the texts, Carolina is BRT and Minillas is LRT to VSJ. Both are horrible mistakes. Say you live in Carolina and work in Minillas. You have to transfer twice. This type of system will have minimal impact and will be a huge waste of money.
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Old December 12th, 2009, 04:37 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by islandtransit View Post
I may have read it wrong, but it appears the Carolina extension of TU isn't actually TU, but BRT. It says that in several areas, but one of the maps shows a line out to Canovanas and up to Minillas as TU, but according to all the texts, Carolina is BRT and Minillas is LRT to VSJ. Both are horrible mistakes. Say you live in Carolina and work in Minillas. You have to transfer twice. This type of system will have minimal impact and will be a huge waste of money.
Yea, I was thinking the same thing, but didn't feel like whining like I always do.

But anyways, first thought was, WTF


They are labeled TREN URBANO EXTENSION and TREN DEL UCKING NORTE ÑETA

BUT

Here is what I understood. Although the federal government recommends the rail extensions, Gregorat's DTOP recommends BRT. The document says in lots of occasions that the costs are "prohibitively expensive". Yea, cause roadways are federally subsidized.

This plan should be thinking about the future of Puerto Rico and I'm troubled at how much investment is going into roads in contrast to rail.

Apart from Tren del Norte, a Tren del Sur has been proposed (NOT BRT! ) of some 50 km of length using old right of way (which must be bought back from private hands) and is planned to at least connect with Mercedita. The ports would also be ideal, according to them.


Anywho, the real reason I came to this thread to comment was because of this tidbit I found.

Quote:
Petroleum*Tax*Revenues*
Petroleum*tax*revenues*are*derived*from*an*excise*tax*imposed*on*petroleum*products*introduced,* consumed,* sold*or*transferred* in* Puerto* Rico.* * These* products* include* crude* oil,* unfinished* oil,* and* oil* derivative* products.* * The* Petroleum* Products* Tax* varies* on*a* monthly*basis*according*to*an*index* price*of*crude*oil* as* determined*by* the*Puerto*Rico*Department*of*Treasury,*where*the*rate*of*tax*declines*as*the*index*price*of* crude* oil* per* barrel*increases.*This* variable* structure* was* established* decades* ago* to*reduce*monthly*fluctuations*in*the*price*of*petroleum*products.*

In* 1995,* however,* from* this* Petroleum* Products* Tax,* 100* percent* of* collections* up* to* a* cap* of* $120* million* per* year* were* allocated* to* ACT* for* transportation* purposes,* which* resulted* in* an* immediate* increase* in* bonding* capacity* and* permitted* completion* of* Tren* Urbano* and* other* projects.* * Revenue* in* excess* of* $120* million* continues* to* be* used*by*the*Commonwealth*for*other*purposes.*

Due*to*the*increase*in*crude*oil*index*price*in*the*five*year*period*2004*–*2008*however,* the* tax* rate* consistently* remained* low,* affecting* the* effective* tax.* * Petroleum* tax* revenues* fell* from* $115.3* million* in* 2004* to* $99.8* million* in* 2009.* * Collected* revenues*thus*did*not*fulfill*the*2004*forecasts*(Figure*6‐6).*
Page 87

http://www.dtop.gov.pr/SAUP/PTM_2030...20GR%20_2_.pdf


I recommend the whole entire section on finances (page 80 in the South documents and probably in the others too) for anyone who is curious to hear a little transparency for once.


The funny thing is, Gas Tax revenues have actually been increasing and are the number one source of revenue. And Revenues as a whole increased for every year except 2009.

So, what's the reason for the halt in expansion of the Tren Urbano? Perhaps they were disappointed in how overbudget and how delayed it had been. Still, our future depends on mass transit. So your petroleum tax revenues came a little short? Displace it with that uber gas tax.

Total Dedicated Revenues in 1999: $453,227,000

Total Dedicated Revenues in 2009: 527,460,000


However, in Puerto Rico we have two agencies who are responsible for our transit systems and these are Departamento de Transportación & Obras Públicas (DTOP) and Autoridad de Carreteras & Transportación (ACT). ACT however, is able to fund itself through

— Gas Tax (16%)
— Diesel Oil Tax (8%)
— Annual Motor Vehicle Licenses of $15
— Tollway tolls
— Petroleum Taxes
— AND Federal Funds

So, is ACT the financial arm of DTOP? DTOP gets funding from the Legislature. LEGISLATURE?

Quote:
The*contrast*between*these*two*entities*is*very*sharp,*with*ACT*having*several*sources*of*dedicated*funds*and*the*DTOP being*dependent*upon*annual*appropriations*from*the*Legislature.**Since*almost*all*of*the*investment*in*Puerto*Rico's*transportation*system*is*by*the*ACT,*the*resources*of*this*public*corporation*are*the*main*focus*of*the*
analysis.*
I am pretty sure that ACT will have a preference towards its precious tollways.


Ultimately, maybe we should act like other states and take it to vote on a ballot. That way, the government has to keep its promise no matter which administration infiltrates the Fortaleza and sweeps out any sign of progress. It's humiliating for each administration to start from a clean slate. Not even Obama pulled out the troops like he promised he would. He has to continue the war Bush started. Maybe that's too much of a touchy subject, but you guys get the point.
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Old December 12th, 2009, 08:12 AM   #6
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Tren Del Sur is probably the easiest to build first, and might even make the most sense with the coming of Puerto de Las Americas. The entire ROW is still available from Guayama/Arroyo to Mercedita and there is plenty of space for a ROW from Mercedita to the port. And apparently according to the map, the old railroad never went into downtown Ponce like I thought. Apparently, PR52 is built on the old railroad ROW. So this could definitely serve as both a freight and commuter line.

What I don't understand is how there is not a regularly scheduled bus service running on PR-14. A bus along that road from Ponce to Coamo stopping in the intermediate towns seems like such a no-brainer. Please tell me there is at least regular publico service.

What also needs to be done is publish a book showing schedules for all the existing bus inter-city bus services. There are currently buses operating Rio Piedras-Caguas, Caguas-San Lorenzo, Caguas-Cidra via Aguas Buenas, Cidra-Cayey, and probably many many more buses. They all operate on a regular schedule and charge VERY low fares.
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Old December 12th, 2009, 06:26 PM   #7
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What is the name of the inter-city bus company?
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Old December 12th, 2009, 09:14 PM   #8
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There are several ones. The company running Rio Piedras to Caguas I think is called Inter-City Transit. They use 30 ft Flxible transit buses. The company running Caguas-Aguas Buenas-Cidra I think is called La Esperanza Bus Lines, they operate full sized school buses. Not sure of the other companies names, but the one to San Lorenzo operates full sized schools buses (used to run a 1974 fishbowl but that got taken out of service). The one from Cidra to Cayey runs 40 ft and 35 ft fishbowls from various years as far back as I think the 1950's. All the buses I rode are in GREAT operating shape though! The one from Cayey to Aibonito runs a 35 ft school bus.
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Old December 14th, 2009, 01:43 AM   #9
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wow, istandtransit how did you find the
Caguas-Aguas Buenas-Cidra and
Cidra to Cayey
buses??
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Old December 14th, 2009, 03:43 AM   #10
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I found the first one when I stumbled upon the bus terminal in Caguas, and then I think someone had told me about the bus to Cayey. I rode both of them back in August.
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Old February 10th, 2011, 10:48 PM   #11
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A real optio for San Juan maybe the whole island

Quote:
Originally Posted by islandtransit View Post
I found the first one when I stumbled upon the bus terminal in Caguas, and then I think someone had told me about the bus to Cayey. I rode both of them back in August.
http://project21monobeam.blogspot.co...ch/label/Video

This system is more flexible,more elegant, more convinient at less than
half the cost of standard rail.

ricardo

Last edited by rycar_m; February 19th, 2011 at 06:26 PM.
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