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Old May 24th, 2006, 05:41 PM   #1
Hindustani
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Hyderabad discussions

Here it is.

Discuss all you pros and cons of upcoming Hyderabad metrorail here.

Question that were raised are the following. please discuss the pros, cons so that we all could learn and debate.

With the failure of Hyd Multi-Modal-Transport-System, Is Hyd worthy of a an ambitious Rs 7000 crore Metrorail ?

Hyd's urban Population is less than 4 million and metropolitan population around 6.5 million. Is it economically feasable to have Rs 7000-8000 Crore Metrorail despite Rs 150 crore MMTS failure?

Last edited by Hindustani; May 24th, 2006 at 05:54 PM.
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Old May 24th, 2006, 06:46 PM   #2
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why did the mmts fail? surely it makes sense to invest in and correct an already under-used utility rather than build a new one? unless it was a badly planned project in the first place

7000 crores? yeah i guess that kind of investment is worth it, whether in metro rail or mmts. 6.5 million is not a small population
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Old May 24th, 2006, 08:08 PM   #3
ramkan
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Metro

The point is, just investing 7000 crores may not make the project a success nor solve cities transport problems.

What we need is an Integrated Transport authority which can oversee the public transport in the city and rationalize all the existing services..

The transport authority should have full control over the planning and rationalization of permits and routes, though not necessarily operational control over..

These include..

MMTS & Its Stations
RTC Buses & Bus Stops
Taxis & Taxi Stands
Auto & Auto Stands (3 wheelers & 7 seaters)

ofcourse, new metro when it is operational.

All these services should work in tandem based on the traffic needs of the city.
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Old May 24th, 2006, 08:58 PM   #4
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HUDA is not responsible for all that. the taxi stands and stuff like that can be privatized and let commercial companies run those operations. also, the official figure is around 6000 crore.
usually, the cost comes down in the case of competitive bidding. and even if there is additional infrastructure to be created, the project cost, i don't think, will exceed 7000 crore. also, Hyd metro population is around 7 million.

don't go by the 38 lakhs figure b/c the neighboring Ranga Reddy district population, which is all part of the metro area, isn't considered in that figure.


when there are 2 or 3 modes of transport, obviously there will be a need for coordination and proper planning. you can't say "guess what, we have so many burdens, so we're not gonna go for the metro and let the the city decay in traffic congestion." the private consultants, if paid, will work out those details too.


if Hyd doesn't get a metro now, then it will never happen. the ever increasing population will only lead to more intricacies in land allotment if the metro is delayed.
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Old May 24th, 2006, 09:04 PM   #5
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Frankly, I do not understand the motives behing this belittling of
Hyderabad, its population or its infrastructural needs. Isn't a prosperous
Hyderabad good for the entire country. Why this constant tirade people?

Quote:
I seriously doubt the financial viability of such a project for a city
like HYDERABAD.
ramkan,

Is your doubting the financial viability of metro project for Hyderabad
based on some facts or did you go out on a whim there.

If it is based on any facts then please justify the financial viability of a
metro for Bangalore (and not for Hyderabad) keeping in mind that both
Bangalore and Hyderabad have almost similar population and industrial
profiles (Bangalore's population is probably a few hundred thousand more
than that of Hyderabad).

bommasaniv,
Do you have a motive in belittling Hyderabad or its population or are you
just ignorant.

You do not need to have an administrative greater Hyderabad authority
to see that the population in the metro area of Hyderabad is close
to 7 million (atleast 6+ million).

Also for any city anywhere in the world the population within just the
administrative limits of the city is not used as a guide for the
infrastructural needs of the city.

As an example the population of San Francisco is officially listed as
776,000 according to 2000 census. However the poulation of bay area
making up the San Francisco metro area is 7+ million. The airports around
San Francisco are constructed for this 7+ million population and not just
776,000 population of the city.
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Old May 24th, 2006, 09:52 PM   #6
naveensn
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Isn't 7000 crores too less for 60 odd kms. of metro rail? That comes to around 115-120 crores per km. I think Delhi metro cost around 150-175 crores per km. for the first phase and B'lore is going to cost 175+ crores per km due to cost escalations. for 1st phase. So, 9000 crores would be my guess for implementing the full 60 kms 1st phase for Hyd metro.
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Old May 24th, 2006, 09:53 PM   #7
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Bangalore?

I have no intention to slight hyderabad and i am not even referring to Bangalore in this thread. I am a hyderabadi and do not know much about Bangalore to comment on it needs.

The point I was making is that the Hyderabad(like most other cities) is jumping on the Metro bandwagon, without making any effort to manage existing resources effectively.

Good infrastructure is always welcome, but for the project to be successful, it has to be financially viable too. Metro should not be bleeding government resources like the current state transport (RTC) does.

I would like the GoAP to atleast look into why the MMTS failed, can they do something to turn it around. Can they use existing MMTS infrastructure. What makes everyone think that Metro would be successful while MMTS failed?

After all, it is a commute train. Either MMTS or metro either runs over the ground or on a fly over, it runs on track. Luxury train vs ordinary one..

This is healthy discussion on whether a Metro is required for the city, lets keep it going and your views are valuable.

Last edited by ramkan; May 24th, 2006 at 10:03 PM.
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Old May 24th, 2006, 09:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naveensn
Isn't 7000 crores too less for 60 odd kms. of metro rail? That comes to around 115-120 crores per km. I think Delhi metro cost around 150-175 crores per km. for the first phase and B'lore is going to cost 175+ crores per km due to cost escalations. for 1st phase. So, 9000 crores would be my guess for implementing the full 60 kms 1st phase for Hyd metro.
As per one news article, HYDERABAD metro should be relatively cheaper because of the terrain and there are no underground tunnels to be built. It is going to be on elevated tracks. May be that is the reason, the cost is low. My Guess..
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Old May 24th, 2006, 10:00 PM   #9
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A rough estimate from an article dated April 2006

Rs 110 crore per km overground
Rs 280 crore per km underground
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Old May 24th, 2006, 10:09 PM   #10
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My Question is the simple one.

"Does Hyd metro has the capability to decongest this ever expanding city in the future?

If the answer is Yes then I am all for it no matter what the cost is. Hyd has the lowest road to space index out of all mega cities in India. So this makes metro a requirement not a luxury. Metro will only help extend the city limits and eventually suburbs will be built around the lines. That means inner city limits roads that are wideneded need not be burdened with additional population flowing in to live there. Once shopping complexes, multiplexes, stadia built around the lines, population will opt for metro than their own vehicles because of the parking headache.

My point is just give them a metro that stops at every km in the congested area as well as new suburbs and nice feeder services to the lines. Sooner than you know, 50% of the hyderabadis will be traveling in metro easily by 2015.
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Old May 24th, 2006, 11:52 PM   #11
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yes, metro is a must for all the congested corridors of the city. also, they need to invest in some good marketing before the lines open so ppl will travel in them. there is a large bus travelling population in Hyd. especially, there are a lot of students travelling across the city and many other ppl. so, i can only see a successful metro system resulting in getting the RTC out of Hyd which will def increase the average speed too.
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Old May 25th, 2006, 01:09 AM   #12
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hindustani
I disagree totally. Hyderabad metro population is more than 6 million now. Hyderabad urban pop is less than 4 million. By 2010 Hyd metro pop is estimated around 8-9 million so this means lots of IT/pharma/biotech influx into the metropolitan region. Best time to build Metro is right now. or else hyderabad will end up with all troubles with the likes of other 4 Indian metros.

Yeah I agree.

When u talk abt Hyderabad's population (officially it's around 5million) we shld consider the fact tht the official population doesn't consider the whole of the twin cities . I believe they leave out much of the main parts and also some of the dense parts of the regions as they either fall into secunderabad or other surrounding districts. I think i'm pretty sure on this.....

My estimate is tht it is already btween 7 and 8 million as of now!

Say wht guys?

------------------------------( previous post)

So my point is that a city like Hyderabd does need a subway cause.....

1. Basically to ease the ever increasing traffic.

2. Set a basic platform for future renovations and extensions. This wld really save a lot on money.

3. Also adds to the aesthetics of the city.

We need infrastructure of this kind to be atleast considered as a average city in the global arena. India in general is way behind on this .......high time to catch up.

And as far as i believe, the city officials also need to rework on the MMTS and the city buses and kinda make them useful feeder network to the MRTS project.

Also considering the option of a monrail to parts of cities where MRTS is difficult to reach cld also be a very gud option.
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Old May 25th, 2006, 03:20 AM   #13
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can i ask the mods to change the name of this thread to "Andhra Pradesh discussion".

i really didn't know much about formation of AP. here's a timeline.
http://www.1upindia.com/states/andhr...h/history.html

_________________________________________________________________
Some Historical Events from in the Post Historical Era:


1947, Jaipur Session - A committee was set up with Jawaharlal Nehru, Vallabhai Patel and Pattabhi Sitaramaiah (JVP) by the All India Congress Committee to look into the demand for a separate Andhra State.

The JVP Committee approves reorganisation of states on linguistic basis but suggests delay in implementation.

August 15, 1950 - Government of India's non-chalance results in peoples' restlessness. Goparaju Sitarama Sastry commences fast unto death.

September 25, 1950 - Goparaju Sitarama Sastry calls off his fast after assurances from Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru about formation of a separate Andhra state.

October 19, 1952 - Andhra stalwart Potti Sreeramulu begins fast unto death when no initiative towards their demands is undertaken.

December 15, 1952 - Sreeramulu takes his last breath, making a supreme sacrifice for the cause of the Andhras.

Bowed down by pressures and angry threats, Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru makes a surprise announcement in the Lok Sabha that steps are being taken to form a separate state of Andhra Pradesh.

January 1953 - The Government of India appoints Justice K.N.Wanchoo to look into the matter.

March 1953 - Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru announces the ushering in of the first linguistic state in the country on October 1, 1953.

October 1, 1953 - Andhra Kesari Tanguturi Prakasam takes charge as Chief Minister of Andhra state with Neelam Sanjeeva Reddy as the deputy.

December 1953 - Government of India appoints the States Reorganisation Commission headed by Justice Fazal Ali to decide on the demand for the formation of linguistic states in other parts of the country.
________________________________________________________________



Potti Sreeramulu and Tanguturi Prakasham are the most famous historic persons of telugu origing in the modern times when it comes to politics.
also, AP was the first liguistic state to be formed.

what r your all's thoughts on this history?
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Old May 25th, 2006, 05:25 AM   #14
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Thumbs up

May be we need to create another thread......for tht pding.

Abt some real historical information abt A.P. chk this.....

http://www.aponline.gov.in/quick%20l...t/history.html


Awesome info!

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Old May 25th, 2006, 07:18 AM   #15
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Exclamation "Hyderabad discussions" title must stay as it is. No need to change it

There is a reason why this thread is created. There are many forumers who wanted to discuss advantages and disadvantages & I mean pros and cons of HYDERABAD METRORAIL in Hyderabad ORR thread.

There are many of us who wanted to learn, discuss and debate upcoming Hyderabad metrorail. This thread will be very active as the latest development and news of metro will sparkle many view points in future.

pding..................If you want AP discussion thread. create a different one. No need to change Hyd discussion into AP discussion. Hyd is a very happening and active metro & there is lots of breaking new, projects and infrastructure stuff going on.

My point is we desperately need a Hyderabad discussions thread for many forumers who like to express & debate their point-of-views
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Old May 25th, 2006, 10:55 AM   #16
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I think the MMTS system failed because there were/are in-adequate feeder
bus services to its stations. Most of its stations are also not very close to
major population centers of Hyderabad which resulted in lower ridership.

APSRTC for some reason did not think it was in its best interests to cultivate
rider-ship for MMTS by running feeder services to the stations. To prevent
this from happening in the future any mass transit system planned should
invite APSRTC as a stakeholder in the project (by asking it to pick up 3-5%
stake in the project).

We know that the current traffic crisis in Hyderabad is only going to get
worse in the future. A big part of the current traffic crisis is the low road
surface area in Hyderabad which is significantly lower than its peers. So one
solution for resolving the traffic problem is to significantly increase the road
density. But this increase in road density is not possible in congested areas of
the city.

Therefore a viable alternative can be a train-based mass rapid transit system
in these congested areas which can transport a huge number of passengers
in a fast, efficient and secure manner. The system should be viable 30-40
years down the line so the design of the stations, the selection of the
coaches/engines should reflect these requirements.

A metro system along the lines of the delhi metro seems to fit most of these
requirements. If such a metro system is well planned it can significantly
decrease the commute times being any two points in the city and increase
the productivity of the general population.

Since the Hyderabadi system is being designed as a completely over the
ground system it would infact be much cheaper than the system in Delhi.
The cost-benefit analysis I am sure would favor Hyderabad having such a
system but I am not adequately informed about the project to make such an
analysis myself.
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Old May 25th, 2006, 03:27 PM   #17
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all the discussion on metro can be done in Hyd projects thread. Metro is a Hyd project, so we can discuss it there. i don't understand why we need a different thread for Hyd metro discussions. that can be done in Hyd projects thread, as metro is one of the projects of Hyderabad.

this discusison on metro is very much pertaining to SSC forums and i'd rather keep it in Projects thread than Chaibar, which is for unofficial discussions.
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Old May 25th, 2006, 03:40 PM   #18
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Leaving aside the thread/forum organisational stuff

coming to actual point of : Does Hyd need a metro now?

When almost all cities in Western Europe with a population of more than 300,000 have/maintain a functioning metro for decades, its ridiculous that even for a city with a poplulation of over 5 million, we are still hestitating to go for a metro.

Now the failure of MMTS is a valid point..but that does not counter the point that other transportation will also fail. The metro can learn from the mistakes in MMTS and if it can provide proper connectivity for the office going middleclass, there is no reason why it will fail.

We cannot coax people using cars to opt for a metro..but the success of the metro depends on the success of making the auto rickshaw/ city bus / two wheeler commuting population to use the new system.
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Old May 25th, 2006, 06:48 PM   #19
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Metro Cost

Hyderabad Metro is going to be on standard gauge unlike the Delhi Metro which is on Broad Gauge(thanks to Mr. Jaffer Sheriff, who insisted that all railway lines should be on Broad Gauge for easier integration to existing rail network ).

This should reduce the cost of rolling stock and maintenance aswell. So the estimates could be lower than the current estimates for Delhi Metro.

But we have to factor in the cost escalation since Delhi Metro is built
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Old May 25th, 2006, 08:19 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckystreak
When almost all cities in Western Europe with a population of more than 300,000 have/maintain a functioning metro for decades, its ridiculous that even for a city with a poplulation of over 5 million, we are still hestitating to go for a metro.

Very much right..I read somewhere that the standard is to have a MRTS if the city population exceeds 1 million. In that case Indian Cities has to go a long way.
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