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Old October 19th, 2017, 11:59 PM   #35801
Topper75
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Originally Posted by lrjohn7 View Post
Whoa! This is a surprise! Wangard apparently moving ahead with with the 7-story 875 East Wisconsin tower expansion due to tenant interest!

https://www.bizjournals.com/milwauke...ce-at.amp.html
Ho hum. What a waste of new office development space. BTW, seven stories IS NOT A TOWER.
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Old October 20th, 2017, 12:04 AM   #35802
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Ho hum. What a waste of new office development space. BTW, seven stories IS NOT A TOWER.
Huh? Getting more workers downtown and expanding the tax base while covering up a pretty unsightly parking structure entrance is a win win.
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Old October 20th, 2017, 12:06 AM   #35803
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Huh? Getting more workers downtown and expanding the tax base while covering up a pretty unsightly parking structure entrance is a win win.
Absolutely, It is certainly an improvement to what is currently there. It definetly could be a great spot for an 833 height tower, and 833 is a great spot for a U.S. bank size tower... but I digress
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Old October 20th, 2017, 12:27 AM   #35804
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I hope Foxconn isn't allowed to build a doozy of a 10 story building on that site.
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Old October 20th, 2017, 12:49 AM   #35805
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Wow what a shame. Smh ����*♂️
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Old October 20th, 2017, 01:16 AM   #35806
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Ho hum. What a waste of new office development space. BTW, seven stories IS NOT A TOWER.
You'd rather it not be built? Not every project is going to be huge. Infill is important and this is a high profile space that's currently underutilized, right on the lake.
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Old October 20th, 2017, 02:35 AM   #35807
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Anyone have a photo of what the 875 space looks like now? Honestly, I thought this one was dead and buried a loooong time ago. To see it resurrected is pretty heartening really, and if they aren't going to demo the garage...this is pretty much the best they can do with the site. I remember the days when when we'd be celebrating this. As it stands - more workers downtown, more height, more density....A presumably, more appetite for new residential to house these folks. Rather bland architecturally but not offensively so. I will say, 7 stories can be done in a very interesting way and I'd like to see more architectural risks downtown.
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Old October 20th, 2017, 03:17 AM   #35808
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If I understand this correctly, is this not 7 stories atop an existing parking structure (or have I completely misunderstood)?
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Old October 20th, 2017, 04:45 AM   #35809
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So I went to Fresh Thyme tonight and some lady was petitioning the development of the block owned by Wangard on Water Street. She was petitioning for an urban forest to be built there instead. She was kind enough and non abrasive but has she lost her mind?! You’re talking about a vacant lot on the edge of downtown adjacent to one of the city’s hottest neighborhoods.. She told me they were proposing a 7 story building that would rise next spring. I smiled and thought to myself I hope that timeline is right! Then politely declined her request to sign the petition.
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Old October 20th, 2017, 05:12 AM   #35810
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If I understand this correctly, is this not 7 stories atop an existing parking structure (or have I completely misunderstood)?


I believe so, but it’s not super clear. They are for sure building on top of the existing parking structure
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Old October 20th, 2017, 05:46 AM   #35811
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Huh? Getting more workers downtown and expanding the tax base while covering up a pretty unsightly parking structure entrance is a win win.
If we're supposed to get excited about a seven-story "tower," I guess we've gotten accustomed to settling for this sort of development in Milwaukee. Yes, the additional workers and tax base is a good thing downtown, but every time we see a 5-10 story "tower" proposed, that means it takes 5-10 stories away from a more impactful development. For instance, Washington Square has been floundering in limbo for years because the potential developers cannot get enough interest to make it go. Every developer of a major office building would like a business to anchor 100,000 square feet or more - depending on the scope of the project - but even drawing away prospective tenants to a 7-story "tower" means this city continues to lack direction for building a more substantial skyline. Density is nice, but Milwaukee has enough density - time to stop being vertically-challenged.
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Old October 20th, 2017, 06:48 AM   #35812
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Well, here we go!

Barrett touts Chicago, Madison proximity in region’s bid for Amazon HQ2

This approach is smart, the only way to go.

I think Milwaukee has a shot. I really do.
An interesting piece written as advice for whatever city wins.

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2017/...winner/543402/

It's not like "whoa, what a surprise" on the points of this story. These aren't a surprise. But unless Amazon picks someplace mega like NYC whatever city gets them will see jarring, jolting change. The cost of winning Amazon could be the soul of the winner.

Sure, the prospect of Big Buildings! Dense Development! Mass Transit! and the like are exciting. And an Amazon win would do a huge amount to pull us away from the lazy, annoying rust belt image toward something like the "next Austin/Portland" moniker. But that isn't who we are. A couple of years back there were a few informal attempts to push a "Keep Milwaukee Weird" slogan and I was very glad it didn't catch on. We are not and should not try to be an imitation Portland, an imitation Austin, an imitation Seattle. We should be the real Milwaukee, the best Milwaukee we can be. Play up our assets, attack our flaws, learn from others. It doesn't mean we should be insular, stuck in the past, provincial. But we can grow and evolve without selling out. Look at how much things have changed and how much has been accomplished in the past 10-20 years. Pretty much all of it was organic. There's so much more to do, but we don't have to lose who we are to move forward. Winning Amazon would probably be like riding a rocket, but we'd leave a lot behind.

I guess I'm indulging my tendency to babble here and am too tired to go back and edit. But my point is that Amazon wouldn't just be a big economic shot in the arm for the region. It has the potential to trample a lot of what makes this place Milwaukee, squashed by a prefab New-Portland-wannabe community.

We already have Foxconn which is likely to have a significant impact. But Amazon promises to make Foxconn look like small potatoes. The more I think about it the more I won't be too sorry to see it pass us by.

Several sources over the past few weeks have speculated that Amazon already knew where it wanted to go before they put this circus in motion, only looking to see how much they could get out of their desired location through the competition. It wouldn't surprise me, and I doubt we're that pre-ordained choice. It will be interesting to see. Personally I hope it's an underdog like Detroit, but I'm certainly not wagering on it.
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Last edited by knope2001; October 20th, 2017 at 02:05 PM.
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Old October 20th, 2017, 07:28 AM   #35813
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Personally, after the couture, and bmo is built I think I'm happy with Milwaukee's skyline. With the exception of adding a new tallest, and other tall buildings over time, I would rather if we could add a ton of 5-15 story buildings, if it meant moving the urban and cool areas out and adding wealth to other neighborhoods. Know what city is really cool but has a garbage skyline? Portland.
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Old October 20th, 2017, 03:39 PM   #35814
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKE-bound View Post
If I understand this correctly, is this not 7 stories atop an existing parking structure (or have I completely misunderstood)?


Seven stories (hopefully 8!) atop of this:


https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0378...7i13312!8i6656
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Old October 20th, 2017, 04:09 PM   #35815
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Originally Posted by Topper75 View Post
Perhaps"abandon" was too strong a word, but considering the hoopla surrounding JCI's purported investment into Downtown with a 50-story building, the actions of the company speak to its shareholders sudden love-affair with Ireland. Considering its tight-lipped responses (read EVASIVE) whenever someone asked about the company's plans for the special site made possible for JCI by the state, distraction was the key part of the company's public relations effort. JCI also went all in supporting the light rail path past its glitzy, new high rise...which will never be built in Milwaukee because the company chose to pop the Cork in Ireland instead. (pun intended)
What point are you trying to make...

A- JCI has not made any official comments stating they're no longer building a new HQ in Milwaukee... So all this talk about them leaving Milwaukee is nonsense.

B- Their Cork Ireland HQ is 100% for tax inversion reasons.... NOTHING ELSE... PERIOD.. This notion that they're going to move their entire corporate HQ to Ireland keeps bubbling up on this forum every few months and it's complete horse s#$t..

Are they going to build a new HQ in MKE - who knows??? However, there is slim to no chance their functional HQ is leaving MKE anytime soon...
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Old October 20th, 2017, 04:20 PM   #35816
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My goodness, negative-nancy people. Every proposal can't be a tower. This is a good project.
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Old October 20th, 2017, 04:35 PM   #35817
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My goodness, negative-nancy people. Every proposal can't be a tower. This is a good project.
Exactly! The goal is to create an increasingly dense urban environment. This proposal achieves that. More importantly, as far as I know, the 7-8 story height limit is due to the weight that the parking garage can support.

Also, as far as the suggestion that, somehow, all of these tenants should be combined into a huge building, I think that shows a lack of understanding of how real estate works.

To use the Washington Square example. That lot and proposal are owned by Van Buren Management, not Wangard. They are competing real estate development companies. Also, as was the case with Bader Rutter, development is often driven due to tenant time frames rather then pure speculation. Bader Rutter was looking to move immediately and didn't have years to sit around to wait to hope that the developers could assemble enough pre-leasing commitments to develop a larger facility.

Also, tenants might not want to share a building with anyone else. I know for a fact that Van Buren pitched Washington Square for Fiserv's headquarters but that building is more than twice the square footage that Fiserv was looking for. And Fiserv wants 1 building for themselves.
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Old October 20th, 2017, 05:27 PM   #35818
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Exactly! The goal is to create an increasingly dense urban environment. This proposal achieves that. More importantly, as far as I know, the 7-8 story height limit is due to the weight that the parking garage can support.

Also, as far as the suggestion that, somehow, all of these tenants should be combined into a huge building, I think that shows a lack of understanding of how real estate works.

To use the Washington Square example. That lot and proposal are owned by Van Buren Management, not Wangard. They are competing real estate development companies. Also, as was the case with Bader Rutter, development is often driven due to tenant time frames rather then pure speculation. Bader Rutter was looking to move immediately and didn't have years to sit around to wait to hope that the developers could assemble enough pre-leasing commitments to develop a larger facility.

Also, tenants might not want to share a building with anyone else. I know for a fact that Van Buren pitched Washington Square for Fiserv's headquarters but that building is more than twice the square footage that Fiserv was looking for. And Fiserv wants 1 building for themselves.
I agree with all your points and will add it's better to let the city fill in organically than to require certain heights... At some point when all the easy spots are developed economics will dictate taller buildings...
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Old October 20th, 2017, 05:37 PM   #35819
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My goodness, negative-nancy people. Every proposal can't be a tower. This is a good project.
Absolutely. 833 East is pretty stunning at street level, but sticks out currently because every other building in that area treats Michigan St. like a dumping ground for their utilities and parking. This is a great project that will complement the Couture and 833 East by helping activate several city blocks.

People need to chill out on the importance of skyline impact. Imagine a visitor's experience walking to Summerfest down Michigan St. 5 years ago and compare that to 3 years from now. Night and day difference. Street level impressions matter - a lot.
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Old October 20th, 2017, 08:19 PM   #35820
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9-10 stories (assuming the two parking are kept) is nice infill. I don't know if air-rights apply here, but one can assume anything taller and this might have come in to play. This is a solid if not spectacular infill project. Here's what's happened / happening / will-might happen in the immediate vicinity:

1) 833 E Wisconsin
2) MAM Expansion
3) Discovery World Expansion
4) Summerfest facility upgrades
5) NML new HQ
6) the Couture / Lakeshore transit facility
7) Lakefront Gateway Park
8) Westin Hotel
9) 875 E Wisconsin expansion

This does't even include a) the Masonic, b) BMO, c) 777 Van Buren and anything else in Juneautown.

This part of town has made MASSIVE improvements even compared to 2013. It has far more jobs, residents, retail, tax-base - literally better and more vibrant in every conceivable way. We all want good design and height - but that is largely dictated by market forces and whether developers value vision over profit. 875 wont change the skyline, but it will add density and another layer of urban fabric. It will make a much bigger difference on the ground, activating a currently dead block and stitching together contiguous walkability.
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