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Should the US build or improve it's HSR network?

  • Yes

    Votes: 620 93.0%
  • No

    Votes: 47 7.0%
2M views 10K replies 812 participants last post by  Monty02 
#1 ·
Acela Express...a major disappointment?

This was once touted as an alternative to driving and flying between Washington and New York and Boston at comparable comfort and speed to flying. Is this a major disappointment, and does it have a negative effect on the future of train travel in the US?
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Amtrak cancels once-ballyhooed Acela Express because of brake problems
Saturday, April 16, 2005
By Devlin Barrett, The Associated Press


WASHINGTON -- The Acela Express, Amtrak's much-ballyhooed hope for high-speed train travel, was shut down indefinitely Friday because of brake problems, leaving thousands of travelers scrambling for other transportation.

The beleaguered rail service pressed slower trains into use along the Northeast corridor between Washington, New York and Boston.

All Acela service will be suspended at least through next Wednesday and most is likely to be shut down for much longer because of newly discovered cracks in disc brakes, said Amtrak chief operating officer Bill Crosbie.

"We're very early into this," said Crosbie, estimating it was likely to take more than two months to do all the repairs, depending on the availability of replacement parts.

Millimeter-sized cracks were found in 300 of the Acela fleet's 1,440 disc brake rotors.

Amtrak said the extra trains would not be able to compensate for all the lost Acela seats. People with reservations who cannot get a ticket on another train -- or don't want one -- are entitled to a refund, the company said.

Amtrak normally runs 15 Acela weekday roundtrips between New York and Washington and 11 between New York and Boston. Acela accounts for about 20 percent of Amtrak's Boston-New York-Washington weekday service, some 9,000 passengers. On Friday's that's usually about 10,000.

The cracked brakes come at a bad time for Amtrak. A Senate committee will debate next week whether to end the rail service's federal subsidy -- as the Bush administration has recommended -- and radically reshape train travel in the United States.

"We're always under political pressure," said Amtrak CEO David Gunn. "I don't think that this will be a factor per se."

When Acela service was launched Dec. 11, 2000, the trains were billed as the faster, brighter future of Amtrak. Running only in the Northeast corridor, the trains can reach speeds of 150 mph and feature amenities such as conference tables in passenger cars, pub-style cafe cars with expanded menus and three audio music channels with headphone outlets at each seat.

The manufacturer, Bombardier Inc., had no immediate explanation for the cracks found on the steel spokes of disc brakes on most coaches.

"We want to get them up and running as soon as possible, but until we really understand the issue fully that's going to be an open question," said Bombardier spokesman David Slack.

The cracks were discovered during routine inspections, and no brake failures or other safety problems had occurred, Amtrak said.

That was little comfort to stranded business travelers and those who had made weekend plans.

Standing in line at New York's Penn Station, accountant Linda Priebe feared she wouldn't make it home to Baltimore Friday.

"If they can't give me a ticket to go in a couple of hours, I'm going back to the hotel," she said.

Art curator Stanley Babcock wasn't ready to give up.

He said he was ready to ride sitting on the floor. "Otherwise all my hotel and restaurant plans will be ruined."

Most other Amtrak service was scheduled to operate normally, but the company added four more regional trains Friday to try to handle the displaced passengers.

"It's going to be a challenge for us because we have limited additional equipment," said spokesman Cliff Black.

Lawmakers already upset over the Bush administration's plans to end most funding for Amtrak argued the incident shows Amtrak needs more help, not less.

"When Amtrak is terribly underfunded and has to operate on a shoestring budget, these kinds of things will keep happening, which will really disrupt people's lives and our economy," said Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y.

The White House seeks to radically reshape what Transportation Secretary Norman Y. Mineta had called "a dying railroad company."

A day before the Acela cancellation, the administration sent Congress a plan to reshape Amtrak as a private operator focused on running trains, not maintaining tracks or stations.

President Bush proposed in his 2006 budget eliminating Amtrak's operating subsidy. If the railroad ceased operating, the administration has offered to set aside $360 million to run trains along the Northeast Corridor. The current budget gives Amtrak some $1.2 billion in operating subsidies and capital investment.

Acela Express service also was halted in August 2002 after inspectors discovered cracks on a bracket holding a shock-absorbing assembly to one Acela Express locomotive. Additional cracks were later found around the assemblies of other locomotives.
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#421 ·
The Keystone Corridor in the US is a good example of how lines can be upgraded on limited finances - electrified and upgraded to 110mph (176kph)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keystone_Corridor

The South East High Speed Rail Corridor (http://www.sehsr.org/)

the Mid West Regional Rail Initiative,

(http://www.dot.state.mn.us/passengerrail/onepagers/midwest.html)

and the Ohio Hub all follow this 110mph template (albeit using diesel power).

(http://www.dot.state.oh.us/ohiorail/Ohio Hub/Website/ordc/index.html).

And despite what was posted earlier in this thread,they all look like serious, achievable schemes.
 
#424 ·
I disagree -- today's average N American's is agoraphobic (as ever) . . . .
I agree, but I also find that the Ipod has been the greatest aid to public transit.

So while I really do not care for its isolationist ability, actually deplore them, it has been a great aid to public transit; putting idiotic people in their own little world under the guise of "chilling out" or relaxing.
 
#425 ·
There have been plans to make an HSR from Boston all the way to Montreal. Would be cool, as New England could use some HSR. Too bad Massachusetts has a score of other problems.
Through Vermont and New Hampshire right? I have a suspicion that will not happen. To damn hilly, low population route, descent distance and Boston sucks, they would rather go straight to NYC. However it will most likely be left to the plane.
 
#427 ·
Through Vermont and New Hampshire right? I have a suspicion that will not happen. To damn hilly, low population route, descent distance and Boston sucks, they would rather go straight to NYC. However it will most likely be left to the plane.
Low population is rather good for high-speed rail-line. Trains don't stop anyway and the less people live along such a rail-line the less resistance there would be.
 
#429 ·
There really is no need for HSR in the U.S. at this point. Regional flights are cheap and even with the high gas prices, driving is still viable.

Dont get me wrong, I would love to have a train going 250 mph that would get me from Milwaukee to Chicago in 20 minutes, but its not worth the cost to build that this point in time.
 
#431 ·
There really is no need for HSR in the U.S. at this point. Regional flights are cheap and even with the high gas prices, driving is still viable.

Dont get me wrong, I would love to have a train going 250 mph that would get me from Milwaukee to Chicago in 20 minutes, but its not worth the cost to build that this point in time.
It is desperately needed in BosWash, the fact that our highways are clogged and now our airports, especially NY and Phily, are far beyond capacity warrants high speed rail.

Actually every high speed line that has ever been built turns a profit within about a decade. Unless the economics that apply to the rest of the world don't apply to the USA then "not worth the cost" is not valid. Not worth the political effort maybe.
That I do not think is true. The NEC is no where near the black when you account for infrastructure costs.
 
#433 ·
It is desperately needed in BosWash, the fact that our highways are clogged and now our airports, especially NY and Phily, are far beyond capacity warrants high speed rail.
You are talking about one line, maybe in the entire country that might be a necessity.

Its not worth the cost in most of the U.S. Nobody would use it when you can simply take an equal or less expensive flight.
 
#434 ·
It is desperately needed in BosWash, the fact that our highways are clogged and now our airports, especially NY and Phily, are far beyond capacity warrants high speed rail.
You are talking about one line, maybe in the entire country that might be a necessity.

Its not worth the cost in most of the U.S. Nobody would use it when you can simply take an equal or less expensive flight.
 
#435 ·
You are talking about one line, maybe in the entire country that might be a necessity.

Its not worth the cost in most of the U.S. Nobody would use it when you can simply take an equal or less expensive flight.

If it is full trip time comparative or even slightly longer you can assume that a statistically relevant amount, everyone, would choose the train instead of the tortures of air travel.
 
#436 ·
Hsr rail is not worth the cost in many places. Solution: build it where it makes sense. If a hsr takes as long as a flight with comparable cost the flight loses 90% of the time. No airplane I was ever in has ever matched the comfort of an average train imo. Unless your loaded with money planes are cramped and uncomfortable. The only bonus for planes is the view on start and landing. Have you ever ridden a half decent train? I am sure the majority will agree with me

These are classical arguments for hsr. Airport security takes long. But then again why is there no train security. Or security in every place where crowds are. Hijack a train and you are limited by the tracks.

Airports are very often in the middle of nowhere. Hsr rail can stop at the outskirts of a city and in the center. But then again the rail tracks where built already. If there are no rail tracks in the center I can imagine this can become expensive
 
#437 ·
If it is full trip time comparative or even slightly longer you can assume that a statistically relevant amount, everyone, would choose the train instead of the tortures of air travel.
Why does the train system need to be HSR? High speed rail, opposed to Amtrak Diesel trains, does not equate to that much shorter of travel time. They have done studies about that on the East coast.

I agree that MagLev trains would be an excellent way to connect regions, but its costs are even more astronaumical than regular high speed trains.
 
#438 ·
Why does the train system need to be HSR? High speed rail, opposed to Amtrak Diesel trains, does not equate to that much shorter of travel time. They have done studies about that on the East coast.

I agree that MagLev trains would be an excellent way to connect regions, but its costs are even more astronaumical than regular high speed trains.
I am not, nor have I ever argued for the development of a transnational high speed rail system, so people can take the train from LA to NY. What I would like to see is HSR between economically viable cities. BosWash is just the defining example of HSR in the country as the cities are strong and so is the desire to travel between them.

As for your argument of why not just use Amtraks P42s instead of their HHP-8s and Acela Express engines is a very simple one. Why not just use coal fired boilers instead of diesel trains, the fuel is cheaper and they where capable of just as high speeds as the P42s achieve today.
 
#439 ·
Maglev trains have not seen widespread use even when they have been available for years. Hsr vs non hsr might just make the difference between people choosing or not choosing rail. Non hsr rail ca also mean very different things. Have heard many people not satisfied with Amtrak. I have got the impression Amtraks problem is not the speed but cargo trains making decent service impossible. Make lighter trains with adequate separation so trucks and sheep won't derail trains. Unnecessarily heavy trains mean higher costs.

Why should it not possible to replace some shorter flights with rail , high speed or not.
 
#440 ·
Why does the train system need to be HSR? High speed rail, opposed to Amtrak Diesel trains, does not equate to that much shorter of travel time. They have done studies about that on the East coast.

I agree that MagLev trains would be an excellent way to connect regions, but its costs are even more astronaumical than regular high speed trains.
Studies? What studies? The only reason it isn't much faster on the East Coast is because of politics and the fact that Acela only goes 150 mph for 16 miles on the NEC.

Why does it have to be HSR? On short routes it has to be HSR because it needs to compete with the small regional airlines or else it just won't be make a big impact on regional travelers. We are to a point in this country where we have to have HSR on some of the shorter routes.

And even with Acela not being a true high-speed solution, it still carries the majority of the passengers between Was and NY (I think I read 54%).
 
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