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Old May 25th, 2006, 12:41 PM   #21
waltjie
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Dysan1, this is the last time that I will bother replying to you, after all, this is not a space in which to have catfights or anything.... BUT, all I want to say is this: IF THIS TRAIN WAS BEING BUILDT IN DURBAN, I AM CONFIDENT YOUR LITTLE MOUTH WOULD'VE BEEN MAKING A WHOLE LOT LESS NOISE ABOUT MONEY BEING WASTED.

Kisses,

Princes.
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Old May 25th, 2006, 02:36 PM   #22
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Gee I never forseen a fight in the Gautrain thread, did any of your'll?
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Old May 25th, 2006, 03:25 PM   #23
Mo Rush
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The current land use densities in areas around the proposed Gautrain stations are such that only a limited percentage of potential Gautrain passengers will be able to initially access stations on foot. This means that the Gautrain will have to depend on passengers travelling to and from stations by means of either their own private vehicles or other public transport services.

Existing public transport services
The existing public transport services are services not dedicated to the Gautrain. In certain instances, existing public transport services and operators can provide feeder, and to a limited extent, distribution services. Such services will play an important role in bringing passengers from the periphery of the catchment area, or outside this area, to Gautrain stations. The catchments area is the areas within which passenger trips start or finish.

Existing public transport services could include Metrorail services at Johannesburg Park and Pretoria Stations, municipal and other bus services, services subsidized by the Gauteng Provincial Government and municipal bus operators, combi-taxis and metered taxis.

Amendments or restructuring of the above-mentioned services may, however, be necessary to suit the needs of the Gautrain passengers.

Operation of dedicated feeder and distribution services
Dedicated feeder and distribution services are road-based bus services which will provide regular and dedicated shuttle services for Gautrain passengers to and from stations along fixed routes and in accordance with set timetables. These services which will be operated by or on contract for the Gautrain operator will be of a similar quality as the rail service and with the same branding as the trains.

The dedicated feeder and distribution services could be provided from three operational centres located in Pretoria, Johannesburg, and one located somewhere in between. Such services will comprise of 66 standard buses, 80 mini-buses, 620 trips per day and 15 000 kilometers per day.

The nature and extent of feeder services may change significantly during the concessioning period. This will be due to the envisaged changes in land-use developments and densification at and around the Gautrain stations, which will enable far greater walking accessibility to the rail system.

The development and implementation of incentive schemes to encourage major corporate companies and other organisations to introduce shuttle services for their employees should be pursued to reduce the demand for dedicated distribution services.

Dedicated radial feeder and distribution services
New dedicated feeder bus services will be connecting important residential nodes with the area within which passenger trips start or finish (catchments area). The radius of the catchment area could be up to 10km from stations. Decentralised park-and-ride facilities at nodes such as shopping centres and high density residential developments may be tied into the dedicated feeder networks.

They will follow dedicated routes, stopping at strategically determined points to collect passengers at the origin-side of their journeys. Dedicated lanes will have to be provided on congested arterials to optimize travel time. Such services should be operated at a maximum interval of 10 minutes in peak hours.



Dedicated circular feeder and distribution services
New more “localised”, circular dedicated, road-based, feeder and distribution services will take Gautrain passengers to major nodes in close proximity to the respective stations. Such nodes include commercial- employment- education- and entertainment areas. It will serve an area within a maximum radius of 5km from stations.

Distribution will follow mainly circular routes, stopping at predetermined points to drop passengers off at the destination-end of their journeys. Frequent stops will be provided along the route and the route will be determined to minimise walking distances.

As far as possible the distribution services wil be operated at a maximum frequency of 5 minutes in peak hours.



The illustration above highlights the circular dedicated feeder and distribution services in relation to the Gautrain rail line, its stations and existing public transport services.

Parking infrastructure and facilities within the station precinct
The parking infrastructure and feeder and distribution facilities within the station precincts provides the physical link for passengers between Gautrain and the services that will transport them to and from the stations. Parking will be one of the most significant infrastructure elements within the station precinct.


In most cases, the infrastructure and facilities listed below will be provided within the station precinct all stations, except for the Johannesburg International Airport. Parking and feeder and distribution facilities will including:

* parking garages and/or parking lots: the majority of the park-and-ride passengers will park for a full day, e.g. arriving in the morning, using the train to go to work and returning in the afternoon;
* separate facilities to accommodate kiss-and-ride and short-term parking (i.e. wait-and-ride) for passengers being dropped off or picked up by private vehicles ;
* upgrading of the existing road network to create adequate road access to the stations;
* loading and off-loading for existing public transport services: provision will be made for accommodating existing public transport services on the perimeter of the stations;
* facilities for dedicated feeder and distribution service vehicles: this will include areas for off-loading, loading and holding of vehicles; and
* pedestrian facilities and amenities: including shelters, lighting, benches and information signs.

An isolated and demarcated part of parking facilities should be made available for sub-letting to car-hire companies, where applicable. Accommodation for this has been made at stations in Johannesburg, Pretoria and Sandton.

An additional area of 150 m² (2,5m x 60m) was allowed at each station for on-street parking for existing public transport services and vehicles.

Based on the demand estimation model, it is estimated that structured parking facilities consisting of approximately 6000 bays and surfaced parking of 4 000 bays will have to be provided in total at all the respective stations.

Integrated development
To promote transport planning co-ordination, as well as land-use and transportation integration, the proposed feeder and distribution solutions will have to be accommodated in local plans (i.e. Integrated Transport Plans, Land Development Objectives and Integrated Development Plans).
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Old May 25th, 2006, 03:28 PM   #24
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Old May 25th, 2006, 03:31 PM   #25
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er all you durbs guys: GP contributes way more in taxes to the SA economy than we actually recieve back in government spending so it is us who are actually subsidising you.
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Old May 25th, 2006, 03:33 PM   #26
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Carte Blance investigation

visit:http://www.carteblanche.co.za/displa...ay.asp?Id=3072 for the full report

Derek: 'To get an idea of the speed of the Euro Star, just look at the traffic out there. Now, they must be travelling on a limit that I would guess is around 100 or 120 kph and we are leaving them behind. This train must be going at, I reckon, 180 kph to 200 kph.'

The Gautrain will reach speeds of 160 kilometres per hour and higher.

The trip between Sandton and the airport will apparently take 12 to 15 minutes and the one between Pretoria and Johannesburg 40 [minutes].

The estimated cost of a ticket from Pretoria to Johannesburg will be 18 to 19 rand.

According to the plan, the train will operate 18 hours a day, with six trains an hour each way.

14 kilometres of the route will go through underground tunnels.

Derek: 'This is also the view that you will get on some sections of the Gautrain, basically underground. You know something else? No clickety-clack! That's because these rails are mounted on rubber and are specially welded. And they're promising the same for the Gautrain… excuse me.'
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Old May 25th, 2006, 04:10 PM   #27
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Thank ever so much for the photos Dewald.

Do you think next time you go past you could take a photo of the new hotel? When I went past and it had been given a scrub down, it looked just gorgeous. But I'm wondering if they're going to open soon, because the guests won't have a very pretty view of the construction site.

Oh, and about the tax money going into Gautrain, if I'm not mistaken, the Central government only gave us R7.1 Billion - Gauteng footed the rest to bring the cost up to R20 Billion. But as to why the government should fund a portion of the Gautrain instead of the rest of the country's transportation infrastructure, it's quite simple really. We need it more than anyone else.

To put it in perspective...
  • Gauteng houses 20% of South Africa's population
  • This in a mere 1.4% of the total land area of South Africa.
  • The province contribute 38% to South Africa's GDP.
  • The province generate 60% of South Africa's fiscal revenue.
  • Gauteng alone generates 10% of Africa's GDP, making it the third largest economy in Africa after South Africa and Egypt.
  • By 2015, the State of the Cities report predicts that the cities of Pretoria, Johannesburg and Ekhuruleni (the 11th fastest growing city in the world according to the Economist), will be a polycentric urban region with a projected population of some 14.6 million people, making it one of the largest cities in the world.

Given the increasing amount of urban sprawl in the city, as well as the increasing growth of the middle class, trust me all ye Gautrain nay-sayers, we flippin well need this bloody train.

*choo choo*

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Old May 26th, 2006, 08:42 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike2005
er all you durbs guys: GP contributes way more in taxes to the SA economy than we actually recieve back in government spending so it is us who are actually subsidising you.
I'm not complaining about the tax money thats being spent on this porject, I am just worried at the price of the project, its phenorminal! I just said I hope no one is taking an early retirement package from this project.

thats all, otherwise, I am looking forward to this one.
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Old May 26th, 2006, 11:50 AM   #29
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joburg you forgot to say that its predicted jhb pta will be become one city with the boom going on in midrand and urban sprawl ...wonderwhat they call they new city ....coz it'll be the same as the east coast in the states
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Old May 28th, 2006, 01:37 AM   #30
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Beautiful!!!!!!!!
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Old May 28th, 2006, 04:35 AM   #31
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Joburg's facts posting put things in perspective for me...

Gauteng is a very small area, but is home to a huge chunk of S. Africa's population. So, a system like this is worth it- it's a small area, therefore public transit is quite workable... so, in other words, it's not a huge system that crosses a big area, but it sure does serve a lot of people! In my opinion, that makes it a worthwhile cause.

So, are they planning on expanding it into more lines in the future?

-thryve
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Old May 28th, 2006, 05:14 AM   #32
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What would you consider a "large" area? If a full metro system was implored, it would be one of the largest, because metro Johannesburg/Gauteng is one of the largest developed areas of land in the world.
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Old May 28th, 2006, 05:26 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dysan1
You know what, flap away princess.
That will be my new quote for my sig
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Old May 28th, 2006, 12:11 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thryve
Joburg's facts posting put things in perspective for me...

Gauteng is a very small area, but is home to a huge chunk of S. Africa's population. So, a system like this is worth it- it's a small area, therefore public transit is quite workable... so, in other words, it's not a huge system that crosses a big area, but it sure does serve a lot of people! In my opinion, that makes it a worthwhile cause.

So, are they planning on expanding it into more lines in the future?

-thryve
hopefully a joburg to cape town...underground...imagine the costs...
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Old May 28th, 2006, 09:12 PM   #35
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Yah.. wouldn't that be wicked?

thryve, I reckon that by 2020, you'll probably see connections to the south of Joburg and to the west, given the high rate of growth in these areas. Hopefully we'll also see some light rail infrastructure... would love a monorail in Joburg!
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Old May 29th, 2006, 01:46 AM   #36
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Oh, I just love the diva fights now and again... Show us more of those manicured claws waltjie! LOL
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Old May 29th, 2006, 06:49 AM   #37
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Light rail is just what Joburg needs! We can all dream of an underground in the north away from the mines....and throughout most of the inner-city Light Rail is a perfect solution.
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Old May 29th, 2006, 11:22 AM   #38
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I would be against the project if it was in Durban, for i am against a Government spending more on one hopefull project than on an ENTIRE countries transport infrastructure!!! Thats my point!!

Whether you believe this project will succeed and i believe it will fail is irrelavent. The key issue is too much money and focus on one project and no attention to everything else.

If Jozi was more dense i'd support this project, but it isnt and frankly will take decades to be. People make comparissons to Tokyo, London and New York, but you do know that Tokyo has 27m people in the space that oburg has 3m? Make the city more compact for a project like this to truly succeed, for it needs density.
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Old May 29th, 2006, 12:18 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thryve
So, are they planning on expanding it into more lines in the future?
The project leader, Jack Van Der Merwe, has made it clear in the past that the stations are "being built in such a way as to make it possible to add extensions without disrupting operations in the future..."
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Old May 29th, 2006, 05:08 PM   #40
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Quote:
If Jozi was more dense i'd support this project, but it isnt and frankly will take decades to be. People make comparissons to Tokyo, London and New York, but you do know that Tokyo has 27m people in the space that oburg has 3m? Make the city more compact for a project like this to truly succeed, for it needs density.
Yah, but in 20-30 years time, I'll bet ya Gauteng will be as dense and over-populated as Tokyo is. I do agree with you that the project could face difficulties in the short-term because of the lack of density in Gauteng, but one needs to lay a groundwork now for the future. And if that involves spending more on this project than the rest of the country's infrastructure, then so be it. Indeed, it can be argued that the rest of the country isn't in as grave a need of a public transport overhaul as Gauteng is.

However, whilst I do think Gautrain is needed, I feel that perhaps another type of public transport overhaul, such as light rail as Nick suggested, would be better and perhaps more cost-effective. But since that isn't on the cards, then I'm all for the Gautrain.

*choo choo*
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