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Old October 7th, 2017, 04:53 AM   #2121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intersezioni View Post
New ITALO EVO, high speed train in italy (100% built in italy):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up9AsLIskWQ
Interesting thing: the man on the video says that they will not only operate these new trains on the Torino-Milano-Brescia-Padova-Venezia line, but that they will also add Trento and Bolzano (midway between Verona and Innsbrunk) to the network.
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Old October 16th, 2017, 10:32 AM   #2122
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Hello

One question concerning the new Bologna underground (High-Speed-Rail) station:

Is it possible for trains to/from Venezia to use the four underground platforms? If I see it correctly, all trains to Venezia depart don't use the underground station today.

Will it be possible in the future, in my Railway Atlas Italy it looks like there is a (projected) line so that trains from Venezia can enter the tunnel.

Thanks!
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Old October 16th, 2017, 10:34 AM   #2123
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Not at the moment, but yes they will use the underground station. They are building the link between the HSL and the Bologna - Padova line.
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Old October 16th, 2017, 10:05 PM   #2124
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In the last two years Trenitalia received many, many new trains:

- 50 new ETR 400 (ETR 1000)
- ETR 470 (former service to Switzerland) for national service
- Future: very soon many Fyra V250 from the Netherlands.

My question: With all this new rolling stock for Italy...

What is the future for the old ETR 460?
Will they keep on running for the next year's or are there already rumours of their retirement?

Problem is: They can't be used on high-speed lines so they are now slower Frecciarbianca.

Thanks
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Old October 16th, 2017, 11:25 PM   #2125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narkelion View Post
Not at the moment, but yes they will use the underground station. They are building the link between the HSL and the Bologna - Padova line.
Why will there be no link to the line to Rimini for Frecciarossa trains?
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Old October 16th, 2017, 11:33 PM   #2126
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What would be the point? Main demand for the Rimini line is to/from Milan and Bologna, definitely not from Florence and Rome.

And the underground station is particularly useful for trains to/from Florence-Rome-Naples, but it doesn't give such an advantage for the Rimini line, either coming from Padova or Milan.
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Old October 19th, 2017, 06:42 PM   #2127
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@Negjana: there will be no link from the underground stations towards the Adriatic line because the Adriatic line was not originally thought to be part of Italy's HS network ("originally" means the early '90s). The plan called for connecting Apulia with Roma with a HS line, so that services from Apulia to Milan would go through Rome. The cities along the Adriatic (Ancona, S. Benedetto del Tronto, Pescara) are all rather small and thus at the end it was decided that the Adriatic line would stay part of the conventional network and be just upgraded to 200km/h.

Hence, no direct connection from the HS network to the Adriatic line at Bologna.

Adding it today is impossible given that underground Bologna is too small to work effectively as a station between two lines on the east and two on the west. It's not even sure all trains to Venice and Verona will stop underground, there were plans to have some of them stop overground.
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Old November 13th, 2017, 10:41 AM   #2128
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Passengers on high-speed trains

Italy is the only country in the world where there is, I understand, true competition in high-speed services.

In Japan, they are usually separated by geographical areas where only one company operates. The Hokuriku Shinkansen is an exception, but the two operators use the same series of trains (only differ in the painting) and, in any of them (E7 or W7) the crew of JR East arrives from Tokyo to Jōetsu Myōkō where it is relieved on the other by JR West. In other farther destinations the trains overlap: those of JR Kyushu or JR Hokkaido are the only ones that arrive to these islands, and they do it by going through JR Central, JR West or JR East, but there is no competition because they have agreements between the companies (another example is the E5 and H5 trains).
In Korea there is a new operator: Supreme Railways, although it is something similar to a low cost version of the public company, is owned by it (Korail has 41%), operates from another station near Seoul (Suseo) and does so by a different route.
In Europe, international services are liberalized, but high-speed services are operated by consortia of public companies in those countries: Allegro, Alleo, Artesia, Cisalpino (until 2009), Elipsos, Eurostar, Fyra, Lyria, Reinalp, Rhealys, Tee Rail Alliance, Thalys and Thello.
However, in the high-speed Italian corridors you can choose between traveling on Frecce trains, operated by the state train Trenitalia, or on Italo trains, of the almost private NTV (Nuovo Trasporto Viaggiatori) since SNCF had 20% until December 2015 whereas now SNCF Voyages Développement SaS only has 1.4%.

Le Frecce has different brands according to whether they run at 300 km/h only for high speed (Frecciarossa), at 250 km/h for all types of lines (Frecciargento) or at 200 km/h only for conventional lines (Frecciabianca).




Italo only has trains for 300 km/h (AGV), although since December it will have 4 new trains for 250 km/h (EVO).


It was announced that the ETR 1000 would be approved for 350 km/h in 2016 reducing the Roma-Milano trip from 2 hours 55 minutes to 2 hours 20. The last thing I read on ferrovie.it is that:
Quote:
Per vedere gli ultimi elettrotreni di Trenitalia sfrecciare a 350 km/h si dovrà attendere verosimilmente la fine del 2017, o al più tardi la primavera del 2018.
It was also announced that ETR 575 would reach 360 but I have not heard anything about it for a while.

Fleet:
Frecciarossa: 50 trains ETR 1000 (V300 Zefiro of Bombardier/AnsaldoBreda) and about 55 ETR 500 (of TREVI: ABB/FIAT/AnsaldoBreda).
Frecciargento: 14 trains ETR 480/485 (FIAT) and 19 ETR 600/610 (New Pendolino of Alstom).
Frecciabianca: 9 trains ETR 460 (FIAT), 9 ETR 470 (FIAT) and about 22 E 414 (first locomotives for ETR 500 with Z1 cars). It seems that soon the V250 Albatros of AnsaldoBreda returned from Fyra (Belgium and Holland).
Freccialink: integrated train + bus service with tourist destinations.
ETR 1000:


Italo: 25 trains ETR 575 (AGV of Alstom) and will have 17 trains (8 + 4 + 5) ETR 675 (EVO, also of Alstom, with Tiltronix tilting, an evolution of the New Pendolino, and similar to the Avelia Liberty for Amtrak in 2021). The EVO trains have 4 M 3 C, 480 seats, 5,500 kW and 187 meters, with an average cost of 57.50 M € with maintenance for 30 years.
AGV:


EVO:



The passenger numbers are incomplete and unclear. Trenitalia publishes the passengers.km in "long-distance commercial services", which are more than those made in Frecce trains, while NTV counts even travelers in their Italobus coaches, launched in December 2015. In the annual NTV report they also give figures of the competition (figures similar to those of commercial long distance services), and talk about the total high-speed market (it is assumed that only on high-speed lines) has doubled between 2009 and 2016.
Italo has gone from transporting 15% of passengers.km to reach 24%; counting the number of passengers their quota is quite minor, which indicates that their trips are longer.


Today there are 49 Frecce trains (21 without stops) in each direction Roma-Milan from € 79.90 which take a minimum of 2 hours 55 minutes (553 km, with an average of 207 km/h), and 37 Italo trains (13 without stops) from € 55.90 which take the same between Roma Termini and Milano Centrale, and a minimum of 2 hours 38 minutes from Roma Tiburtina and Milano Rogoredo. There are many offers of classes (4 and 2 although Italo started with 4) and prices.
Club class
ETR 1000 Frecciarossa:


ETR 575 Italo:
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Old November 13th, 2017, 10:55 AM   #2129
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Almost everything you wrote is correct, except that the lowest prices for non-stop Milano Centrale - Roma Termini on Frecce trains are around € 49, not € 79, and around € 40 on Italo. So they are quite a bargain - and this fares are easy to found in advance, not special promotions or things like that.
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Old November 14th, 2017, 11:46 AM   #2130
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What I wrote was:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusiluz View Post
Today there are 49 Frecce trains (21 without stops) in each direction Roma-Milan from € 79.90. There are many offers of classes (4 and 2 although Italo started with 4) and prices.
They were prices for the same day, for other dates there are many offers. NTV even specifies the cheapest price of each day for those who can travel any day and what matters most is the price.

According to the European Commission the prices that were in Italy with monopoly have dropped by 40% in 5 years. As for air competition, Ryanair has left the Milan-Rome route, and both Alitalia and Easyjet have reduced their daily flights between 50 and 80%.

NTV entered € 354.9 million for transport tickets and had 4,800 thousand million passengers.km, so it charges an average of 7.4 cents of € per passenger and km (10 cents in Spain´s AVE).
Trenitalia entered € 4,044 million for transport tickets in the long distance commercial market and had 16,022 thousand million passengers.km, so it charges an average of 25.2 euro cents per passenger and km, more than triple that of its competitor. This includes the entire commercial market, both where there is competition and that which does not.
The normal thing in these cases is that you adjust your offer more where there is competition and earn more where there is none. This is good news for passengers Milan-Roma-Naples (and other routes) and bad for the rest.
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