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Old February 28th, 2009, 03:22 PM   #1
dysan1
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...Johannesburg Discussion

Lets start over

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http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...601926&page=56
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Old February 28th, 2009, 03:29 PM   #2
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Links to the old threads maybe?
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 11:48 AM   #3
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Hey guys. So I got this email from the realrealist (death of Joburg dude).

"Hello!

For a while I thought you had deserted me!

So you have latched onto the NDI have you? Still not got a proper job then. Ah well, as long as you can make a living.

Anyway, thanks for the pics. I used to live in Lily Ave, so I know exaclty of what I speak.

The bad news for you is that I am about to do another sweep of central Joeys and will soon be posting a series of updated pics! Hod tight for that lot!"

Yes, I still not got a proper job...

Anyhoo.

Keep those pics coming dudes!
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 11:58 AM   #4
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Creepy!
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 12:16 PM   #5
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Jeremy Clarkson writes a column for the Sunday Times (the UK one not the South African one). His column yesterday focussed on Joburg and its fiersome reputation which he says is a load of rubbish. Its a good article and i know Joburg is not the safest place on earth but its great to have someone with a bit of international profile countering all the Doom and Gloomers and giving us a good review :

March 1, 2009

I dare you to visit Johannesburg, the city for softies
It’s the least frightening place on earth, yet everyone speaks of how many times they’ve been killed that day

Jeremy Clarkson

Every city needs a snappy one-word handle to pull in the tourists and the investors. So, when you think of Paris, you think of love; when you think of New York, you think of shopping; and when you think of London – despite the best efforts of new Labour to steer you in the direction of Darcus Howe – you think of beefeaters and Mrs Queen.

Rome has its architecture. Sydney has its bridge. Venice has its sewage and Johannesburg has its crime. Yup, Jo’burg – the subject of this morning’s missive – is where you go if you want to be carjacked, shot, stabbed, killed and eaten.

You could tell your mother you were going on a package holiday to Kabul, with a stopover in Haiti and Detroit, and she wouldn’t bat an eyelid. But tell her you’re going to Jo’burg and she’ll be absolutely convinced that you’ll come home with no wallet, no watch and no head.

Jo’burg has a fearsome global reputation for being utterly terrifying, a lawless Wild West frontier town paralysed by corruption and disease. But I’ve spent quite a bit of time there over the past three years and I can reveal that it’s all nonsense.

If crime is so bad then how come, the other day, the front-page lead in the city’s main newspaper concerned the theft of a computer from one of the local schools? I’m not joking.

The paper even ran a massive picture of the desk where the computer used to sit. It was the least interesting picture I’ve ever seen in a newspaper. But then it would be, because this was one of the least interesting crimes.

“Pah,” said the armed guard who’d been charged with escorting me each day from my hotel to the Coca-Cola dome where I was performing a stage version of Top Gear.

Quite why he was armed I have absolutely no idea, because all we passed was garden centres and shops selling tropical fish tanks. Now I’m sorry, but if it’s true that the streets are a war zone, and you run the risk of being shot every time you set foot outside your front door, then, yes, I can see you might risk a trip to the shops for some food. But a fish tank? An ornamental pot for your garden? It doesn’t ring true.

Look Jo’burg up on Wikipedia and it tells you it’s now one of the most violent cities in the world . . . but it adds in brackets “citation needed”. That’s like saying Gordon Brown is a two-eyed British genius (citation needed).

Honestly? Johannesburg is Milton Keynes with thunderstorms. You go out. You have a lovely ostrich. You drink some delicious wine and you walk back to your hotel, all warm and comfy. It’s the least frightening place on earth. So why does every single person there wrap themselves up in razor wire and fit their cars with flame-throwers and speak of how many times they’ve been killed that day? What are they trying to prove?

Next year South Africa will play host to the football World Cup. The opening and closing matches will be played in Jo’burg, and no one’s going to go if they think they will be stabbed.

The locals even seem to accept this, as at the new airport terminal only six passport booths have been set aside for non-South African residents.

At first it’s baffling. Why ruin the reputation of your city and risk the success of the footballing World Cup to fuel a story that plainly isn’t true? There is no litter and no graffiti. I’ve sauntered through Soweto on a number of occasions now, swinging a Nikon round my head, with no effect. You stand more chance of being mugged in Monte Carlo.

Time and again I was told I could buy an AK47 for 100 rand – about £7. But when I said, “Okay, let’s go and get one”, no one had the first idea where to start looking. And they were even more clueless when I asked about bullets.

As I bought yet another agreeable carved doll from yet another agreeable black person, I wanted to ring up those idiots who compile surveys of the best and worst places to live and say: “Why do you keep banging on about Vancouver, you idiots? Jo’burg’s way better.”

Instead, however, I sat down and tried to work out why the locals paint their city as the eighth circle of hell. And I think I have an answer. It’s because they want to save the lions in the Kruger National Park.

I promise I am not making this up. Every night, people in Mozambique pack up their possessions and set off on foot through the Kruger for a new life in the quiet, bougainvillea-lined streets of Jo’burg. And very often these poor unfortunate souls are eaten by the big cats.

That, you may imagine, is bad news for the families of those who’ve been devoured. But actually it’s even worse for Johnny Lion. You see, a great many people in Mozambique have Aids, and the fact is this: if you can catch HIV from someone’s blood or saliva during a bout of tender love-making, you can be assured you will catch it if you wolf the person down whole. Even if you are called Clarence and you have a mane.

At present, it’s estimated that there are 2,000 lions in the Kruger National Park and studies suggest 90% have feline Aids. Some vets suggest the epidemic was started by lions eating the lungs of diseased buffalos. But there are growing claims from experts in the field that, actually, refugees are the biggest problem.

That’s clearly the answer, then. Johannesburgians are telling the world they live in a shit-hole to save their lions. That’s the sort of people they are. And so, if you are thinking about going to the World Cup next year, don’t hesitate.

The exchange rate’s good, the food is superb, the weather’s lovely and, thanks to some serious economic self-sacrifice, Kruger is still full of animals. The word, then, I’d choose to describe Jo’burg is “tranquil”.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...Submitted=true
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 12:20 PM   #6
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If you follow the link to the Sunday Times website where the article is posted you can post your own comments. There are plenty of chaps droning on about how Jeremy is wrong and Joburg sucks. Someone even posted a link to the Death of Joburg blog. If you get a chance post a comment to support the article and tell everyone how great Jozi is.
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 12:26 PM   #7
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Haha. Excellent article.
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 01:15 PM   #8
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You gotta love jeremy!

OK guys, I am posting pics here, which I know is a nono, but hopefully it will get a discussion going...

1. This little derelict number is on the corner of market and harrison (I think). It is currently being stripped, and as far as I could figure, it will be demolished to open up the square. The PERM building is next to it, undergoing renovation. And on the other side of the square the fugly 69 president street is undergoing serious renovation.


2. This massive 20F+ structure is on the corner of pritchard and delvers. It is Fashion Loft's neighbour. Undergoing massive renovation, the place was an absolute dump. Will definately clean up the area even more.




3. ABSA is injecting serious cash into this neglected side of the CBD. Three blocks under construction (up to level 2). In the back you can see a horrible building - if you look closer you see that it is also undergoing a change. ABSA wants to open up the streets, bringing in pedestrians. So this development will go down main street, linking with Ghandi Square and the lower part of main. Which will bring a nice, pedestrian friendly spine for the CBD.


4. Not a fan of huge advertisements. But "oom" Johnny walking - I quite like this one. Not a fan of huge outdoor advertisements for alcohol though.


5. Rainbow is busy with the finishing touches on Zurich's new building. This imposing structure will bring life to lower main, hopefully extending the spine. This is also development closer to commissioner street and chinatown - hopefully we will see some action here. The government precinct and chinatown will also act as a bridge between Newtown and Marshalltown, creating another spine.



6. Forgotten beauties
6.1 IBM

6.2 The second tower of the Sun complex...


7. Some street shots




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Old March 2nd, 2009, 02:00 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flood View Post
Jeremy Clarkson writes a column for the Sunday Times (the UK one not the South African one). His column yesterday focussed on Joburg and its fiersome reputation which he says is a load of rubbish. Its a good article and i know Joburg is not the safest place on earth but its great to have someone with a bit of international profile countering all the Doom and Gloomers and giving us a good review :

March 1, 2009

I dare you to visit Johannesburg, the city for softies
It’s the least frightening place on earth, yet everyone speaks of how many times they’ve been killed that day

Jeremy Clarkson

Every city needs a snappy one-word handle to pull in the tourists and the investors. So, when you think of Paris, you think of love; when you think of New York, you think of shopping; and when you think of London – despite the best efforts of new Labour to steer you in the direction of Darcus Howe – you think of beefeaters and Mrs Queen.

Rome has its architecture. Sydney has its bridge. Venice has its sewage and Johannesburg has its crime. Yup, Jo’burg – the subject of this morning’s missive – is where you go if you want to be carjacked, shot, stabbed, killed and eaten.

You could tell your mother you were going on a package holiday to Kabul, with a stopover in Haiti and Detroit, and she wouldn’t bat an eyelid. But tell her you’re going to Jo’burg and she’ll be absolutely convinced that you’ll come home with no wallet, no watch and no head.

Jo’burg has a fearsome global reputation for being utterly terrifying, a lawless Wild West frontier town paralysed by corruption and disease. But I’ve spent quite a bit of time there over the past three years and I can reveal that it’s all nonsense.

If crime is so bad then how come, the other day, the front-page lead in the city’s main newspaper concerned the theft of a computer from one of the local schools? I’m not joking.

The paper even ran a massive picture of the desk where the computer used to sit. It was the least interesting picture I’ve ever seen in a newspaper. But then it would be, because this was one of the least interesting crimes.

“Pah,” said the armed guard who’d been charged with escorting me each day from my hotel to the Coca-Cola dome where I was performing a stage version of Top Gear.

Quite why he was armed I have absolutely no idea, because all we passed was garden centres and shops selling tropical fish tanks. Now I’m sorry, but if it’s true that the streets are a war zone, and you run the risk of being shot every time you set foot outside your front door, then, yes, I can see you might risk a trip to the shops for some food. But a fish tank? An ornamental pot for your garden? It doesn’t ring true.

Look Jo’burg up on Wikipedia and it tells you it’s now one of the most violent cities in the world . . . but it adds in brackets “citation needed”. That’s like saying Gordon Brown is a two-eyed British genius (citation needed).

Honestly? Johannesburg is Milton Keynes with thunderstorms. You go out. You have a lovely ostrich. You drink some delicious wine and you walk back to your hotel, all warm and comfy. It’s the least frightening place on earth. So why does every single person there wrap themselves up in razor wire and fit their cars with flame-throwers and speak of how many times they’ve been killed that day? What are they trying to prove?

Next year South Africa will play host to the football World Cup. The opening and closing matches will be played in Jo’burg, and no one’s going to go if they think they will be stabbed.

The locals even seem to accept this, as at the new airport terminal only six passport booths have been set aside for non-South African residents.

At first it’s baffling. Why ruin the reputation of your city and risk the success of the footballing World Cup to fuel a story that plainly isn’t true? There is no litter and no graffiti. I’ve sauntered through Soweto on a number of occasions now, swinging a Nikon round my head, with no effect. You stand more chance of being mugged in Monte Carlo.

Time and again I was told I could buy an AK47 for 100 rand – about £7. But when I said, “Okay, let’s go and get one”, no one had the first idea where to start looking. And they were even more clueless when I asked about bullets.

As I bought yet another agreeable carved doll from yet another agreeable black person, I wanted to ring up those idiots who compile surveys of the best and worst places to live and say: “Why do you keep banging on about Vancouver, you idiots? Jo’burg’s way better.”

Instead, however, I sat down and tried to work out why the locals paint their city as the eighth circle of hell. And I think I have an answer. It’s because they want to save the lions in the Kruger National Park.

I promise I am not making this up. Every night, people in Mozambique pack up their possessions and set off on foot through the Kruger for a new life in the quiet, bougainvillea-lined streets of Jo’burg. And very often these poor unfortunate souls are eaten by the big cats.

That, you may imagine, is bad news for the families of those who’ve been devoured. But actually it’s even worse for Johnny Lion. You see, a great many people in Mozambique have Aids, and the fact is this: if you can catch HIV from someone’s blood or saliva during a bout of tender love-making, you can be assured you will catch it if you wolf the person down whole. Even if you are called Clarence and you have a mane.

At present, it’s estimated that there are 2,000 lions in the Kruger National Park and studies suggest 90% have feline Aids. Some vets suggest the epidemic was started by lions eating the lungs of diseased buffalos. But there are growing claims from experts in the field that, actually, refugees are the biggest problem.

That’s clearly the answer, then. Johannesburgians are telling the world they live in a shit-hole to save their lions. That’s the sort of people they are. And so, if you are thinking about going to the World Cup next year, don’t hesitate.

The exchange rate’s good, the food is superb, the weather’s lovely and, thanks to some serious economic self-sacrifice, Kruger is still full of animals. The word, then, I’d choose to describe Jo’burg is “tranquil”.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...Submitted=true
I wonder how much he got paid, and by whom, to write this propaganda.
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 02:11 PM   #10
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I don't understand you. Excuse the attack but I'm honestly interested. You fight like there's no tomorrow when it comes to ORTIA but when someone posts something positive about Johannesburg you call it propaganda and nonsense. Whose side are you on exactly?
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 02:52 PM   #11
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Good question.
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 03:16 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lydon View Post
I don't understand you. Excuse the attack but I'm honestly interested. You fight like there's no tomorrow when it comes to ORTIA but when someone posts something positive about Johannesburg you call it propaganda and nonsense. Whose side are you on exactly?
Valid point... ORTIA and Jo'burg's dominance is okay, but slam Jeremy Clarkson? This type of about-face seems suspect and bordering on the bipolar.

I liked the article... with Jozi getting so much negative press, I thought it was great and a breath of fresh air for Gauteng. I don't think Jo'burg is the safest place, but it's also not hell-on-earth as some would have overseas people believe.
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 03:27 PM   #13
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Quote:
I don't understand you. Excuse the attack but I'm honestly interested. You fight like there's no tomorrow when it comes to ORTIA but when someone posts something positive about Johannesburg you call it propaganda and nonsense. Whose side are you on exactly?
Yah I get confused too? Maybe Waltjie is employing sarcasm? An endorsement of Joburg by Jeremy Clarkson is a pretty good one IMO...
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 03:58 PM   #14
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On another note:

I went on a walkabout this afternoon. From Standard Bank, to AngloAshanti in Newtown and back. Lots happening in the CBD. The Kopanong district is picking up speed, although it is happening in a more suitable guise.

PS: The reason why I post pictures is to show exactly what I am talking about. And these are developments that are relevant in this particular thread.

1. 69 president street. This one also features prominently on the death of joburg blog. it is undergoing a full-scale renovation.




2. Other buildings being worked on?

Library Hotel

SA PERM
The building next to SA PERM
Customs House


Consolidated Building (Commissioner street) - HUGE


3. The BRT is creating havoc in Commissioner. Some sad news... Picasso seems closed. And Vida was last open on 6 January (there is a newspaper on a table). They don't seem to be closing, but I think they are scaling down until the area picks up. Le Coq, Scooters and Kofifi and another high fashion men's wear place doing great. The Art Gallery is also closed.






Black was filled with patrons over lunch. So was darkie cafe.


A new joint opened corner main and harrison.


Dogon and Ashanti look snazzy (they would not let me take pictures of the lobby).



The guards also stopped me from taking pictures of the Reserve Bank!

Doppio was also full, in Newtown.


There really are renovations on every corner. The drawback is the dust, noise and general mayhem.


4. FNB's new garage and office block between Sauer, Church and Diagonal is much bigger than I expected.


Zurich


SciBono


AngloAshanti


ABSA, putting finishing touches on Diamond building's renovation


The Franklin: Slow, but still active. FNB, AngloAshanti and ABSA will definately make this a more appealing address.


5. Amdec has massive success with their one building.




It was nearly empty when they bought it. When last did we see a sign like this in the CBD?

Last edited by Jakes1; March 3rd, 2009 at 09:36 AM.
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 05:01 PM   #15
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Looking great!
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 05:09 PM   #16
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Wonderfull, thanks for sharing Jakes
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 05:11 PM   #17
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Fabulous fabulous FABULOUS!! I really like the landscaping they did at AngloAshanti!! Looks snazzy! ;-)
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Old March 3rd, 2009, 12:23 AM   #18
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I attended a meeting in Braamfontein last week and stayed at the Protea Parktonian, right in the downtown. Loved it. I also took my international colleagues on a walk through the streets and felt safe doing so. So did they.

There are definitely parts of the JHB downtown that are run down (came through some rough areas in my drive from the airport). However, there are definite signs things are changing. I hope it retains its reputation as Africa's Manhatten. There is really no other city in Africa quite like it. I always encourage my overseas friend to visit the place and stress that the city's bad reputation is not warranted. I hope the downtown goes from strength to strength.
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Old March 3rd, 2009, 08:15 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waltjie View Post
I wonder how much he got paid, and by whom, to write this propaganda.
Dude, its Clarksson, he tells it how it is...

Loved the article and its so true, I went parading around Jhb CBD a million times, late nights, early mornings. People make u shit scared, but the reality is its not all that bad.
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Old March 3rd, 2009, 08:21 AM   #20
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Cradle City set to be Gauteng's Green City of the Future

Quote:
February 22, 2009


Cradle City, the first planned city situated around an airport in South Africa, is set to form an innovative, sustainable green-driven development situated on substantial 912ha of land surrounding Lanseria International Airport, north of Johannesburg.

The development, which will comprise a vibrant mix of residential, commercial, office, retail, hotel, resort, entertainment, warehousing and other elements, is being undertaken by Amari Land. The vision for Cradle City is to create an unparalleled mixed-use precinct which will provide the opportunity to live, work, play and travel, in an integrated environment which embraces new-urban design and green building principles.

"Cradle City will realise the ideal of a cost-effective urban plan comprising different precincts designed to become a healthy, thriving city over a 25 year period and beyond," says Amari's Preston Haskell.

Amari Land was founded in early 2007 by highly respected international property developer Preston Haskell, African mining entrepreneur Mike Nunn and MD of Amari Land, Andre van Wyk, a specialist in the planning and re-zoning of land. The Amari team consists of professionals with vast African and international experience covering the many disciplines of property development in Africa. Amari Land is also developing Luano City, a 380ha mixed use development in Lubumbashi in the Democratic Republic of Congo.

Amari Group focuses on identifying high economic growth regions in sub-Saharan Africa situated around pre-existing economic drivers such as airports, and developing in line with established global standards and applications.

Cradle City surrounds Lanseria International Airport, Gauteng's second largest international airport which is situated in a designated major economic growth node of Gauteng's north western corridor, located within the urban edge. It is located in Africa's fasted growing regional economy, generating more than 10% of Africa's Gross Domestic Product (DGP).

Lanseria International Airport is an economic driver for Cradle City's current and future development and growth. Strong residential increases in the surrounding areas, the enhancement of existing roads, the convenient location of Lanseria -- especially for travellers from Pretoria, the West Rand and the northern suburbs of Johannesburg - and the development of new roads, are all creating a growing demand for the services of Lanseria airport.

Currently Kulula is the only national passenger carrier flying from Lanseria, however it is expected that, at a later stage, other passenger carriers will use the Lanseria International Airport for some of their flights.

This will have a major impact on the number of departing passengers, which are expected to increase from 300,000 to almost 7 million in 2017. It is anticipated that the total scheduled flights will increase from 1,100 flights per annum to close to 4,000 flights in 10 years time. The airport will also increase the total freight from 5,000 tons to 20,000 tons by the year 2017.

"In addition to a unique location with Lanseria International Airport as the catalyst for the development, we are in an extraordinary position to build a city from inception. This provides an exciting opportunity to optimise the mix of uses, facilities and amenities," says Amari Director of Development Markus Kaps.

Ensuring the best mix of uses, Cradle City is aligned with government's Gauteng Growth and Development Strategy and enjoys the highest level of provincial and local government support.

Cradle City's full landholding has received mayoral committee recommendation for development master plan approval for a potential 7.7 million sqm bulk to be developed. This is envisaged to comprise some 3.2 million sqm residential, 2.2 million sqm of offices, 1,14 sqm million of industrial, 700,000 sqm of retail, 208,000 sqm of tourism and leisure attraction and nearly 260ha reserved for environmental elements.


The development will comprise six phases, with the northern elements of the precinct being developed first. The first phase will be Cradle City Business Park, with the second phase being a mixed-use area of some 178ha including medium - and high-density housing, commercial and retail opportunities and public facilities.

A destination business tourism gateway will draw on the value of the Cradle of Humankind as the development proceeds northwards, with the northernmost portion comprising medium- to lower-density residential homes to link flawlessly with the low-density housing developments of Blair Athol and Monaghan Farms.

The northern precinct is termed the Green Coast as it enjoys magnificent views towards the Magaliesburg and has exceptional natural features including both the Crocodile River and the Jukskei River.

A dynamic 'city centre' will be created in the southern precinct, linked seamlessly with the key elements of the development, and will include a large, regional retail centre with offices, apartments and other elements for this vibrant urban living centre.

"Cradle City will become a complete destination, with everything required for quality, everyday living right on its doorstep in a vibrant, sustainable environment which integrates with the amenities in its surrounding areas with ease," says Sherry Seward, MD of Cradle City Sales.

A 'natural selection' approach, which can adapt with the times, has been applied to the design framework to be flexible enough to manage growth elegantly, while an availability of cost-effective bulk services is supported by infrastructure delivery through private/public partnership.

"Sustainability demands that urban development is more compact, avoiding the urban sprawl that has been prevalent in South Africa and establishing a quality living and working environment," says Kaps. "There has been a move towards intensification and an increase in mixed land-use and mixed residential densities, to make urban environments more liveable and reducing environmental impact."

This approach is supported in the Spatial Development Frameworks of the affected local authorities of Johannesburg and Mogale.

Brian Roberts, Divisional Director of financiers Nedbank Corporate Property Finance, says that Nedbank is pleased to be involved in this exciting project. "This unique development is the first of its kind in South Africa, offering occupiers the opportunity to live, work and fly from the same locality. The precinct is anchored by the top-class Lanseria International Airport and is one of the prime emerging nodes in the country, with development strongly supported by the local authorities and government. The shareholders in the development are high profile, highly qualified individuals backed by a strong professional team."

The first phase, Cradle City Business Park, will be located on a 78.9ha site and include a mix of some 300,000 sqm of light industrial, warehousing and distribution space, between 5,000 sqm and 10,000 sqm of retail space, in excess of 140,000 sqm of office and business space and hotel developments exceeding 10,000 sqm. It will also include a restored wetland area.


Situated as a gateway to the airport, the integrated yet self-sustained first phase is within walking distance to the airport terminal and serviced by a mini-transport system between the airport and the park.

The AAA grade mixed-use business park, with individual freehold zoned and serviced sites, provides a full spread of development, investment and rental options. "Cradle City Business Park offers an estimated average developed yield of approximately 10.5%. The first phase construction is expected to be complete and transfers to begin by mid-2010," notes Seward.

In addition to its location to nearby tourism venues, conservation areas, schools and accessibility through significant existing infrastructure with major new and planned road and public transport infrastructure, the architectural framework provides environmental stability and quality design criteria.

Furthermore, the developers are intent on ensuring that Cradle City's energy and utilities consumption are significantly less than existing developments. In fact, this green team is aiming to provide the infrastructure and foundation that which will secure the first level of the Green Building Council of South Africa's Green Star rating points as part of the land purchase.

Through innovative design, the developers have a vision of creating a city that uses 40% of the electricity of an existing city of the same composition and size, 50% of the potable water, 50% of the sewerage, 50% of the storm water, 60% of the solid waste and a mere 35% of the CO2 emissions from vehicles.

Architect Africa
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