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Old November 18th, 2014, 03:04 AM   #3081
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bd popeye View Post
I watched much of the Buckeye game. The weather was bad in Minneapolis and it really affected the attendance. Lots of empty seats in the closed end of the upper deck.
I watched a bit of that game. When Minnesota fell behind the stadium emptied out considerably. It was tough in Edmonton as well. The Western Semi was played against the visiting Saskatchewan Roughriders. Normally one would expect 40,000+ for that match up, but -17C temperatures (1F in 'US speak') reduced attendance to 26,237. It's been a long time since I've seen attendance that low in Edmonton.

Hopefully the weather will get warmer for Division Finals this coming weekend in Hamilton and Calgary. Hamilton is supposedly sold out though.
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Old November 18th, 2014, 03:10 AM   #3082
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Canadian Football League
2014 Week #20 (END OF REGULAR SEASON)



Ottawa RedBlacks @ Toronto Argonauts 19,687
Calgary Stampeders @ BC Lions 33,752
Montreal Alouettes @ Hamilton Tiger-Cats 24,186 SELL OUT
Edmonton Eskimos @ Saskatchewan Roughriders 20,139


Week #20 attendance: 97,764
Week #20 average attendance: 24,441
Cummulative attendance: 2,048,157

2014 Average attendance: 25,286
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Old November 18th, 2014, 04:59 AM   #3083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
If this site is listing by league and country, they should at least do it properly. MLS is a US based league with US and Canadian teams; just like the NBA, NHL, and MLB. It's lazy and a slight even if it was unintentional.

Canada would come 7th ahead of the Dutch Eredivisie and behind France's Ligue 1. Canadian MLS average attendance was 19,972 in 2014. With Toronto's BMO Field set to expand to 30,000 and Montreal encountering what I consider abnormally low attendance figures last year, the Canadian MLS average attendance could jump to about 24,000 within 2 years. Conceivably, Canada could rise to 4th on that list. Pretty good for a non-soccer country.

US MLS average attendance was 18,992 in 2014, good enough for 9th spot.


http://www.empireofsoccer.com/record...endance-29742/
Eh no mate its not lazy and its not a 'slight'. You seem genuinely bothered by this? He is listing Professional soccer leagues, of which the MLS is one. Those Canadian teams you mentioned don't have their own league so why on earth would they be listed separately?

If the inevitable London NFL team has an average of 80k we won't list them separately either. Also notice how the list has no Welsh sides? Again the Welsh teams in England are not listed separately... because that would be ridiculous

In large bold writing it clearly states highest attendances in worlds major leagues.
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Old November 18th, 2014, 05:48 AM   #3084
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Eh no mate its not lazy and its not a 'slight'. You seem genuinely bothered by this? He is listing Professional soccer leagues, of which the MLS is one. Those Canadian teams you mentioned don't have their own league so why on earth would they be listed separately?
US-Canada operate together as one market in 4 of the 5 big professional sports leagues. Canadians consider MLS their domestic soccer league in exactly the same way that Americans do.

If the goal is to actually gauge attendance around the world, pretending that Canada doesn't exist for the simple reason that head office is in another country is counter productive. By your European perspective, Canada only has one pro league called the CFL. That's just absurd.
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Old November 18th, 2014, 06:17 AM   #3085
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It's also right - as much as you would like to dispute it - the CFL is the pure professional league in Canada.
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Old November 18th, 2014, 07:19 AM   #3086
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
US-Canada operate together as one market in 4 of the 5 big professional sports leagues. Canadians consider MLS their domestic soccer league in exactly the same way that Americans do.

If the goal is to actually gauge attendance around the world, pretending that Canada doesn't exist for the simple reason that head office is in another country is counter productive. By your European perspective, Canada only has one pro league called the CFL. That's just absurd.
I don't think you get the point of the table. It's listing the major leagues and their attendance, not individual countries. If you want to make a table for individual countries then go ahead, but the table by sportingintelligence is for leagues. It would also be absurd to rank Canada separately as it only has 3 teams. Do you also expect them to rank the new zealand side in the A-League separately? How about Swansea in the premier league?

Do you complain about MLB stats posted by others on here too when they don't list the Canadian teams separately ?

And as far as many are concerned Canada does only have 1 professional league, the rest are 'shared' with the US. You won't hear the Welsh claiming that the premier league is a Welsh league just because they have 2 teams in it.
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Old November 18th, 2014, 08:27 AM   #3087
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerrybai View Post
I don't think you get the point of the table. It's listing the major leagues and their attendance, not individual countries. If you want to make a table for individual countries then go ahead, but the table by sportingintelligence is for leagues. It would also be absurd to rank Canada separately as it only has 3 teams. Do you also expect them to rank the new zealand side in the A-League separately? How about Swansea in the premier league?

Do you complain about MLB stats posted by others on here too when they don't list the Canadian teams separately ?

And as far as many are concerned Canada does only have 1 professional league, the rest are 'shared' with the US. You won't hear the Welsh claiming that the premier league is a Welsh league just because they have 2 teams in it.
I think you both are missing the whole point. That 19149 includes Canadian games, and it would be silly ranking the Canadian teams as a separated league.

From Wikipedia:

Major League Soccer (MLS) is a professional soccer league representing the sport's highest level in both the United States and Canada.

The MLS it's North American. Canadians and US teams don't need to be listed separated. The guy who made the table just needed to add a Canadian flags near the American one, not a big deal
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Old November 18th, 2014, 11:20 PM   #3088
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a quick view on german football attendences this season so far (sources: weltfussball.de, transfermarkt.de)

capacity | home games played | avg attendance | division | team name

BUNDESLIGA


80,720 | 6 | 80,395 | BORUSSIA DORTMUND
71,000 | 6 | 71,000 | BAYERN MÜNCHEN
61,973 | 5 | 61,570 | FC SCHALKE
57,000 | 5 | 52,238 | HAMBURGER SV
54,067 | 6 | 50,865 | BORUSSIA MÖNCHENGLADBACH
50,000 | 5 | 49,900 | 1. FC KÖLN
51,500 | 6 | 47,750 | EINTRACHT FRANKFURT
74,400 | 6 | 47,063 | HERTHA BSC
60,449 | 5 | 46,080 | VFB STUTTGART
49,000 | 5 | 45,720 | HANNOVER 96
42,100 | 5 | 40,290 | WERDER BREMEN
34,000 | 5 | 29,816 | 1. FSV MAINZ
30,660 | 5 | 28,863 | FC AUGSBURG
30,210 | 6 | 28,541 | BAYER LEVERKUSEN
30,000 | 6 | 27,738 | VFL WOLFSBURG
30,150 | 6 | 26,390 | TSG HOFFENHEIM
24,000 | 5 | 23,020 | SC FREIBURG
15,000 | 6 | 14,908 | SC PADERBORN


2. BUNDESLIGA

54,600 | 6 | 33,373 | FORTUNA DÜSSELDORF
49,780 | 7 | 33,301 | 1. FC KAISERSLAUTERN
50,000 | 6 | 29,761 | 1. FC NÜRNBERG
29,063 | 7 | 26,875 | FC SANKT PAULI
44,345 | 7 | 24,780 | RASENBALLSPORT LEIPZIG
71,000 | 6 | 21,833 | TSV 1860 MÜNCHEN
23,325 | 6 | 21,422 | EINTRACHT BRAUNSCHWEIG
29,299 | 7 | 20,058 | VFL BOCHUM
21,717 | 6 | 19,380 | UNION BERLIN
29,699 | 6 | 15,189 | KARLSRUHER SC
16,500 | 7 | 13,257 | SV DARMSTADT
18,000 | 7 | 12,506 | GREUTHER FÜRTH
13,000 | 7 | 12,071 | 1. FC HEIDENHEIM
15,690 | 6 | _8,833 | ERZGEBIRGE AUE
15,445 | 7 | _7,537 | FC INGOLSTADT
14,500 | 6 | _7,175 | VFR AALEN
12,542 | 6 | _5,797 | FSV FRANKFURT
15,300 | 7 | _5,758 | SV SANDHAUSEN



3. LIGA

32,066 | 8 | 23,689 | DYNAMO DRESDEN
31,500 | 9 | 11,946 | MSV DUISBURG
26,137 | 9 | 11,874 | ARMINIA BIELEFELD
15,000 | 8 | _9,711 | PREUSSEN MÜNSTER
29,000 | 9 | _8,544 | HANSA ROSTOCK
16,667 | 9 | _8,369 | VFL OSNABRÜCK
22,528 | 8 | _8,180 | ENERGIE COTTBUS
15,057 | 9 | _7,417 | HALLESCHER FC
17,500 | 8 | _6,106 | ROT-WEISS ERFURT
18,712 | 9 | _5,933 | CHEMNITZER FC
11,386 | 8 | _5,350 | HOLSTEIN KIEL
12,500 | 8 | _3,597 | JAHN REGENSBURG
12,566 | 8 | _3,352 | WEHEN WIESBADEN
10,000 | 8 | _3,124 | SONNENHOF GROSSASPACH
_9,999 | 9 | _3,091 | BORUSSIA DORTMUND II
15,268 | 9 | _3,074 | STUTTGARTER KICKERS
15,053 | 9 | _2,778 | SPVGG UNTERHACHING
14,944 | 9 | _2,324 | FORTUNA KÖLN

15,088 | 8 | _1,382 | 1. FSV MAINZ II
10,000 | 8 | _1,024 | VFB STUTTGART II



REGIONALLIGEN (only the teams who draw more than 1,000 spectators in the 5 regional divisions of the 4th tier)

20,650 | _8 | 9,835 | west | ROT-WEISS ESSEN
32,960 | _8 | 7,313 | west | ALEMANNIA AACHEN
27,500 | _6 | 6,357 | nost | 1. FC MAGDEBURG
20,500 | _8 | 6,085 | südw | KICKERS OFFENBACH
35,303 | _9 | 5,005 | südw | 1. FC SAARBRÜCKEN
12,990 | _7 | 3,348 | nost | CARL ZEISS JENA
27,000 | _9 | 2,925 | südw | WALDHOF MANNHEIM
21,813 | _8 | 2,534 | südw | FC HOMBURG
14,500 | 11 | 2,454 | sued | WÜRZBURGER KICKERS
34,500 | _9 | 2,414 | west | KFC UERDINGEN
21,318 | _8 | 2,377 | west | ROT-WEISS OBERHAUSEN
10,786 | _7 | 2,273 | nost | SV BABELSBERG
19,708 | _8 | 2,266 | nost | BFC DYNAMO
_3,500 | _6 | 2,120 | nost | FSV ZWICKAU
12,500 | 11 | 1,923 | sued | TSV 1860 MÜNCHEN II
10,256 | _9 | 1,875 | südw | EINTRACHT TRIER
15,060 | 12 | 1,845 | sued | 1. FC SCHWEINFURT
18,737 | _8 | 1,831 | südw | HESSEN KASSEL
17,869 | _9 | 1,741 | nord | VFB LÜBECK
15,200 | _8 | 1,725 | nord | VFB OLDENBURG
16,500 | _8 | 1,542 | nord | SV MEPPEN
19,400 | _8 | 1,502 | west | SPORTFREUNDE SIEGEN
_5,624 | _8 | 1,468 | südw | WORMATIA WORMS
10,000 | _8 | 1,426 | südw | FK PIRMASENS
_3,140 | _8 | 1,362 | west | SV RÖDINGHAUSEN
21,500 | 10 | 1,361 | sued | OBERFRANKEN BAYREUTH
_6,214 | _8 | 1,356 | west | VIKTORIA KÖLN
10,000 | 11 | 1,346 | sued | WACKER BURGHAUSEN
_9,500 | _9 | 1,253 | südw | TUS KOBLENZ
_9,950 | _8 | 1,253 | west | FC KRAY
_3,000 | _6 | 1,239 | nost | BUDISSA BAUTZEN
_2,000 | _8 | 1,194 | nord | HANNOVER 96 II
_5,000 | _8 | 1,109 | west | SC WIEDENBRÜCK
10,000 | _8 | 1,028 | südw | SV ELVERSBERG
16,400 | _6 | 1,015 | nost | VFC PLAUEN
_7,578 | _9 | 1,008 | südw | KSV BAUNATAL
_3,000 | _9 | 1,003 | nord | HANSA LÜNEBURG


OBERLIGEN (only the teams who draw more than 1,000 spectators and the top drawers (if there is no team above 1,000) in the 14 regional divisions (except for Bremen as no data available, but as this is the mallest league of these by far, I doubt that someone would even draw an average above 100 there) of the 5th tier)

15,600 | _8 | 2,647 | nosü | LOKOMOTIVE LEIPZIG
23,067 | _7 | 1,882 | ndrh | WUPPERTALER SV
11,500 | _7 | 1,213 | wesf | ROT-WEISS AHLEN
15,228 | _8 | 1,131 | bawü | SSV REUTLINGEN
_8,000 | _8 | __696 | hamb | ALTONA 93
_2,500 | _6 | __623 | hess | TSV LEHNERZ
_3,468 | 11 | __544 | bays | DJK VILZING
_7,924 | 11 | __544 | bayn | VIKTORIA ASCHAFFENBURG
11,000 | _9 | __499 | shol | HEIDER SV
10,000 | _7 | __481 | ndsn | VFV HILDESHEIM
_5,000 | _6 | __450 | nono | SV WAREN
_2,000 | _9 | __428 | rlps | FV DIEFFLEN
10,164 | _7 | __293 | mtrh | BONNER SC
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Old November 19th, 2014, 12:33 AM   #3089
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Attendance for week 11 of the 2014 NFL season. Home team listed.

New York Giants.....MetLife Stadium, East Rutherford, New Jersey Weather: 42°, Cloudy Attendance: 80,352

Green Bay...Lambeau Field, Green Bay, Wisconsin Weather: 28°, Cloudy Attendance: 78,270

Washington....FedEx Field, Landover, Maryland Weather: 45°, Cloudy Attendance: 77,442

Kansas City....Arrowhead Stadium, Kansas City, Missouri Weather: 21°, Cloudy Attendance: 76,463

Carolina....Bank of America Stadium, Charlotte, North Carolina Weather: 48°, Cloudy Attendance: 73,314

New Orleans....Mercedes-Benz Superdome, New Orleans, Louisiana Attendance: 73,073

Miami....Sun Life Stadium, Miami Gardens, Florida Weather: 74°, Clear Attendance: 71,573

Tennessee....LP Field, Nashville, Tennessee Weather: 25°, Cloudy Attendance: 69,143

Cleveland....FirstEnergy Stadium, Cleveland, Ohio Weather: 34°, Cloudy Attendance: 67,431

San Diego....Qualcomm Stadium, San Diego, California Weather: 72°, Clear Attendance: 66,720

Indianapolis.....Lucas Oil Stadium, Indianapolis, Indiana Attendance: 66,751

Arizona....University of Phoenix Stadium, Glendale, Arizona Attendance: 62,487

Chicago....Soldier Field, Chicago, Illinois Weather: 31°, Cloudy Attendance: 61,792

St Louis.....Edward Jones Dome, St. Louis, Missouri Attendance: 59,401
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Old November 19th, 2014, 01:36 AM   #3090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack Fair View Post
I think you both are missing the whole point. That 19149 includes Canadian games, and it would be silly ranking the Canadian teams as a separated league.
I'm well aware of that. The point is that it was a list ranking by league and by country due to how the table is labeled. This is a labeling issue. People are going to read it as MLS average attendance of 19,149 in the United States. US MLS average attendance was 18,992.

I'm a stickler for details because they can lead to incorrect conclusions. Proper labeling is important. They should at least put an asterick next to it so the casual reader realizes its averaging numbers from 2 countries. You and I know that, but not everyone will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerrybai View Post
I don't think you get the point of the table.
I do. The table is not labeled properly. What can I say, I took lots of stats, math, engineering, and a missing minus sign was often the difference between getting a mark of 100% or a zero. I can't stand sloppiness when it comes to numbers, stats, tables, graphs, etc. I realize not everyone is that detail oriented. Let's move on.
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Last edited by isaidso; November 19th, 2014 at 01:52 AM.
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Old November 19th, 2014, 02:15 PM   #3091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
... that Canada doesn't exist for the simple reason that head office is in another country is counter productive. By your European perspective, Canada only has one pro league called the CFL. That's just absurd.
No, it is not. As long as Canada is not willing or able to sustain a league of its own, it won't be recognised as such and appears not to exist in charts like the one above.
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Old November 19th, 2014, 11:38 PM   #3092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
I'm well aware of that. The point is that it was a list ranking by league and by country due to how the table is labeled. This is a labeling issue. People are going to read it as MLS average attendance of 19,149 in the United States. US MLS average attendance was 18,992.

I'm a stickler for details because they can lead to incorrect conclusions. Proper labeling is important. They should at least put an asterick next to it so the casual reader realizes its averaging numbers from 2 countries. You and I know that, but not everyone will.



I do. The table is not labeled properly. What can I say, I took lots of stats, math, engineering, and a missing minus sign was often the difference between getting a mark of 100% or a zero. I can't stand sloppiness when it comes to numbers, stats, tables, graphs, etc. I realize not everyone is that detail oriented. Let's move on.
The only thing that's 'wrong' is the flags used. The table itself gets the job done. Sure he could have used an american/canada flag and and england/wales flag and an aussie/NZ flag, but lets be honest there is really no need for it.

Yes lets move on.
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Old November 20th, 2014, 07:28 AM   #3093
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A-League

Week 6
Newcastle v Brisbane - 10,216
Adelaide v Wellington - 9,726
Sydney FC v Melbourne Victory - 21,242
Perth v Western Sydney - 12,166
Melbourne City v Central Coast - 9,402

Week 6 Total: 62,752
Week 6 Average: 12,551

2014/15 Total: 457,446
2014/15 Average: 16,337
2013/14 Average: 13,056

2014/15 Average Attendance by Club
Melbourne Victory - 32,546 (3)
Sydney FC - 26,435 (4)
Adelaide - 17,585 (4)
Brisbane - 15,168 (3)
Melbourne City - 12,734 (3)
Newcastle - 11,050 (2)
Perth - 9,860 (3)
Central Coast - 8,024 (3)
Wellington - 7,526 (3)
Western Sydney - N/A
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Old November 20th, 2014, 01:03 PM   #3094
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
I'm well aware of that. The point is that it was a list ranking by league and by country due to how the table is labeled. This is a labeling issue. People are going to read it as MLS average attendance of 19,149 in the United States. US MLS average attendance was 18,992.

I'm a stickler for details because they can lead to incorrect conclusions. Proper labeling is important. They should at least put an asterick next to it so the casual reader realizes its averaging numbers from 2 countries. You and I know that, but not everyone will.



I do. The table is not labeled properly. What can I say, I took lots of stats, math, engineering, and a missing minus sign was often the difference between getting a mark of 100% or a zero. I can't stand sloppiness when it comes to numbers, stats, tables, graphs, etc. I realize not everyone is that detail oriented. Let's move on.
I tend to agree it is sloppy presentation. The column with the flag comes before the league name so seems to be prioritising country over league. They should just delete this column. It is redundant, anyway, as they mention the nation after some of the leagues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerrybai View Post
The only thing that's 'wrong' is the flags used. The table itself gets the job done. Sure he could have used an american/canada flag and and england/wales flag and an aussie/NZ flag, but lets be honest there is really no need for it.

Yes lets move on.

I think the problem is that when people present statistics, I want to have confidence that they are rigorous and accurate. Sloppy presentation makes me suspicious about their credibility and makes me wonder if their statistics is equally sloppy.
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Old November 20th, 2014, 09:57 PM   #3095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jts1882 View Post
I tend to agree it is sloppy presentation. The column with the flag comes before the league name so seems to be prioritising country over league. They should just delete this column. It is redundant, anyway, as they mention the nation after some of the leagues




I think the problem is that when people present statistics, I want to have confidence that they are rigorous and accurate. Sloppy presentation makes me suspicious about their credibility and makes me wonder if their statistics is equally sloppy.
That's a fair point but do can you think of any football sites that use a dual welsh/england flag and a dual USA/Canada flag for their statistics?

http://www.whoscored.com/

Websites like whoscored all use an england flag for the premier league and a USA flag for the MLS, so going by your statement you must think all of the football sites out there are sloppy. I can't think of any that use dual flag icons.

Sportingintelligence were probably just sticking with the web wide status quo. Nothing at all sloppy about that, but anyway this is derailing the tread now.
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Old November 21st, 2014, 12:06 AM   #3096
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerrybai View Post
That's a fair point but do can you think of any football sites that use a dual welsh/england flag and a dual USA/Canada flag for their statistics?

http://www.whoscored.com/

Websites like whoscored all use an england flag for the premier league and a USA flag for the MLS, so going by your statement you must think all of the football sites out there are sloppy. I can't think of any that use dual flag icons.

Sportingintelligence were probably just sticking with the web wide status quo. Nothing at all sloppy about that, but anyway this is derailing the tread now.
Just for curiosity, what flag would you put in a NHL chart? American? Canadian?

Since some modern leagues transcend country borders, I would say put the league's logo and combine the statistics from all the member countries, and that's it
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Old November 21st, 2014, 03:34 AM   #3097
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack Fair View Post
Just for curiosity, what flag would you put in a NHL chart? American? Canadian?

Since some modern leagues transcend country borders, I would say put the league's logo and combine the statistics from all the member countries, and that's it
I would stick with the norm for the NHL, whatever that may be.
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Old Yesterday, 01:57 PM   #3098
jts1882
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Originally Posted by Kerrybai View Post
That's a fair point but do can you think of any football sites that use a dual welsh/england flag and a dual USA/Canada flag for their statistics?

http://www.whoscored.com/

Websites like whoscored all use an england flag for the premier league and a USA flag for the MLS, so going by your statement you must think all of the football sites out there are sloppy. I can't think of any that use dual flag icons.

Sportingintelligence were probably just sticking with the web wide status quo. Nothing at all sloppy about that, but anyway this is derailing the tread now.
Why does it need a flag? The country name is put after the name of the league in some cases, while in the major leagues it is omitted, presumably because people are expected to know what these leagues are. The flag is unnecessary. If they want to add an unnecessary column to the table, why not get it right?

Wikipedia, which tends to use flag icons, doesn't use them on their sports attendance page. They state USA and Canada for the NHL, MLB and NBA, England and Wales for the Premier League, and Australia and New Zealand for the NRL. Simple enough.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ndance_figures
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Old Yesterday, 11:54 PM   #3099
Kerrybai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jts1882 View Post
Why does it need a flag? The country name is put after the name of the league in some cases, while in the major leagues it is omitted, presumably because people are expected to know what these leagues are. The flag is unnecessary. If they want to add an unnecessary column to the table, why not get it right?

Wikipedia, which tends to use flag icons, doesn't use them on their sports attendance page. They state USA and Canada for the NHL, MLB and NBA, England and Wales for the Premier League, and Australia and New Zealand for the NRL. Simple enough.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ndance_figures
It doesn't need a flag, but a flag was used in this case just like they are used are dozens of football sites. Nobody complains about those.
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