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Old November 13th, 2014, 01:18 PM   #2461
Pansori
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I'm going to comment on this one. I found no problems with the way people boarded in the Mainland. People line up and board after letting passengers off first. Never witnessed anyone trying to pry doors open or making a fuss missing a train... I've seen this many times on the Frankston line here in Melbourne. Bogans showing no respect for train property, forcing and holding doors open etc.
Agree. Never seen that in China. Seen many times in London though. I mean holding doors or 'jumping' into the train at the last moment. Actually I do that sometimes too.

The only annoyance I observed is that people are often rushing to board the train before other passengers managed to get out. As if that would make them get to their destination quicker. It doesn't cause major problems apart from some little pushes and bumps but still a little silly because they won't actually get anywhere quicker as opposed to boarding the train in a slower and more respectable manner what you would typically observe in, say, Hong Kong. That's by no mans a real safety issue though. Just my observation about some manners of boarding the train.
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Old November 13th, 2014, 01:55 PM   #2462
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I suppose it comes down to protocol then, but I also wonder if it functions as a means of ensuring a regular headway...
Didn't think about this one. Could be an valid explanation... but then again, what how much headway is 10 seconds going to make with trains every 5 minutes?
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Old November 13th, 2014, 04:30 PM   #2463
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Didn't think about this one. Could be an valid explanation... but then again, what how much headway is 10 seconds going to make with trains every 5 minutes?
Can't be the reason. Just wouldn't make sense. It can't be that from Guangzhou to Shanghai and everything inbetween metro trains would wait 10-12 seconds just to achieve regular headway. It's not done elsewhere and almost certainly not done in China.
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Old November 13th, 2014, 08:33 PM   #2464
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Per the latest reports Daduhe Lu station on line 13 opened on 1 November. Due to the way the tracks are laid there (With one central track that connect both directions, which explains why Daduhe Lu wasn't opened before), it appears now the trains continue beyond Jinshajiang Lu to Changshou Lu in ghost running.
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Old November 13th, 2014, 09:28 PM   #2465
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I noticed that too in Shanghai (although it's better on some lines it seems) and that made me wonder what the precise reasons were? It took 5 minutes for the next train to come (or so it was showing on the information display at the station) while the whole place (Dashijie station) was hopelessly overcrowded during the evening rush hour. You couldn't get onto the train and once on the train some passengers couldn't get out because carriages were completely packed without a chance to move for those who were not right next to the doors.


I brought this up quite a while back after visiting Shenzhen for the first time. I later noticed that it's the same thing in all metro systems in China. Wasted dwelling time (time between doors closing and physical movement of the train) in stations is very long. I know it's a funny thing to do but I actually like counting time after the doors close until train starts to physically move. In Shanghai, Beijing, Guangzhou and Shenzhen it typically takes between 10 and 15 seconds with some extremes up to around 20 seconds (rare).

In other metro systems in Asia that I've tried (like Hong Kong, Singapore and Bangkok) it takes around 2-4 seconds which is probably a reasonable benchmark of how long it should be. In London it might be as little as 1 second in some instances but rarely more than 2 seconds. So 10-15 seconds really seems too long once you put it into perspective.

It must have to do with the train driver getting out of the driver's cabin at every station and observing the platform. He only gets in after all the doors are closed and safety indicators are green, then closes his own cabin door and takes actions to make the train move. The whole thing probably takes around 6-8 seconds hence total dwelling time of up to around 15 seconds. If you minus that out you would get 3-5 seconds, pretty much like elsewhere.

The reason for such a complicated procedure is safety (or so it was mentioned in some earlier discussions about the issue) but I still wonder why is it necessary? And why it's not necessary elsewhere? It's not like Chinese passengers are crazy and would not know how to behave in a metro (even if that might have been the case some time ago). Even if they were less patient from, say, your typical passenger in Singapore or Hong Kong there are more than enough safety measures in place: screen doors, sensors looking for passengers trapped between doors, security cameras observing the platform, platform train dispatch staff etc. Yet the driver still has to get out of his cabin at every stop so wasting time and increasing dwelling times. Why?
That's what I've been telling for at least 2 years. 15 (up to 20 seconds actually, I saw it myself) at each station makes minutes for the whole lines.

But you forgot to mention several seconds even BEFORE opening, and it is sometimes up to 5 - 7 seconds while down here in Moscow it's 0, the train often opens its doors not having completely stopped.

So at each station the time loss may reach crazy 20 - 30 seconds. That's awful.

~~~
But I have to say in HK drivers also get off to control the situation and then upon closing the doors they get back on the train.
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Old November 13th, 2014, 09:33 PM   #2466
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It must have to do with safety. Otherwise there is no other explanation. Why would the driver get out of the train and only get back in once all the doors are closed? It's an overkill and perhaps completely unnecessary but that must be a formal safety procedure they follow which is probably in their operations manual.
I've also noticed that after the doors closed, the driver points with his hand in three different directions: straight forward, left and right. Only after that he gets back to the cab.
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Old November 14th, 2014, 02:29 AM   #2467
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Well you can't blame them for holding the doors open when they're gonna have to wait five minutes to the next one if they don't.

In the time a train dwells at a station in Shanghai, two services would have been and gone in London.
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