High Speed 2

[NCT]

Originally Posted by CharlieP

Pedantic correction - HS2 will not be built all the way to Liverpool. Trains services that run over HS2 for some of their total journey will go to Liverpool.

[Vulcan's Finest]

Originally Posted by Mwmbwls

True - perhaps they are encouraged by the fact that HS2 will eventually reach Newcastle. Eventually has however not been defined. It is more worrying that there does not seem to be a body of local opinion asking serious questions about why the link to Newcastle from Leeds was not included in phase 2. Of all the sections it probably is the least contentious. (Note to self - retire to safe distance and observe tremors along the tectonic plate that divides Tyneside and Teesside.)

On the assumption that Scotland will be served by a West Coast route, I'm not personally so sure HS2 will ever reach Newcastle in the shape of captive stock on 100% dedicated new build HS tracks - this would require a branch over 80 miles long from Church Fenton, four times longer than Liverpool's - potentially costing £8billion in today's money. I suspect if built it will end up being about 50 miles long, joining the ECML South of Darlington, enabling the entire North East to gain the benefit of direct HS2 trains rather than just the City of Newcastle.

Even so, working from the published timings to York (83 minutes) and Newcastle (137 mins) in 2033, the time saving of that 50-mile line would only be about 15 minutes compared to being sent via York on existing tracks at 125mph.

[Dobbo]

Originally Posted by Mwmbwls

True - perhaps they are encouraged by the fact that HS2 will eventually reach
Newcastle. Eventually has however not been defined. It is more worrying that there does not seem to be a body of local opinion asking serious questions about why the link to Newcastle from Leeds was not included in phase 2. Of all the sections it probably is the least contentious. (Note to self - retire to safe distance and observe tremors along the tectonic plate that divides Tyneside and Teesside.)

I would have thought the route would be fairly contentious - i beleive the proposed route would be going through a wealthy AONB (i.e. similar to the Chilterns).

Certainly Newcastle has to be in the frame for phase 3 along with Glasgow/Edinburgh.

[CharlieP]

Originally Posted by Cherguevara

He's saying he's being pedantic. Because he is being.

Exactly. HS2 will not go all the way to Liverpool in the same way that HS1 does not go all the way to Paris or Brussels.

[AndreiB]

Originally Posted by Vulcan's Finest

On the assumption that Scotland will be served by a West Coast route, I'm not personally so sure HS2 will ever reach Newcastle in the shape of captive stock on 100% dedicated new build HS tracks - this would require a branch over 80 miles long from Church Fenton, four times longer than Liverpool's - potentially costing £8billion in today's money. I suspect if built it will end up being about 50 miles long, joining the ECML South of Darlington, enabling the entire North East to gain the benefit of direct HS2 trains rather than just the City of Newcastle.

Even so, working from the published timings to York (83 minutes) and Newcastle (137 mins) in 2033, the time saving of that 50-mile line would only be about 15 minutes compared to being sent via York on existing tracks at 125mph.

And how much time reduction could be further achieved by 225 km/h running?

The ECML still has a lot to offer in my opinion.

[Vulcan's Finest]

Originally Posted by AndreiB

And how much time reduction could be further achieved by 225 km/h running?

The ECML still has a lot to offer in my opinion.

Not an awful lot I'm afraid, 140mph running saves only 3 seconds a mile compared to 125mph. The time saving between Church Fenton and Darlington would be at best 120 seconds, and precisely zero between Darlington and Newcastle. The loss of line capacity on the mixed-traffic ECML probably makes it pointless trying.

[Vulcan's Finest]

Originally Posted by Dothog

Would you send trains to Stoke and Manchester through Stafford for the first stage?

Sorry, only just noticed this question. Yes, that is what I propose. The Stafford/Norton Bridge upgrade should ensure enough capacity to allow this between 2026 and 2033.

[CharlieP]

Originally Posted by AndreiB

And how much time reduction could be further achieved by 225 km/h running?

Exactly two seconds per kilometre at top speed, compared to 200 km/h.

[Glom]

For all the talk of the blight, does anyone else think that the biggest blight so far to places like Ruislip is all the bloody Stop HS2 hunting that is on every street corner?

I think we need a Stop Stop HS2 campaign to save the people of Ruislip from the scourge of this incessant visual nagging.

[sotonsi]

Originally Posted by Glom

For all the talk of the blight, does anyone else think that the biggest blight so far to places like Ruislip is all the bloody Stop HS2 hunting that is on every street corner?

I think we need a Stop Stop HS2 campaign to save the people of Ruislip from the scourge of this incessant visual nagging.

You should have taken a drive around the Amersham-Missenden-Wendover area around the time of consultation!

Most of them were ugly and poor quality white elephants causing a very unsightly mess. There's a few, more interesting and less awful looking, anti-HS2 banners still there on the A413 south of Wendover, saying where the viaduct is passing over.

The rather large scaffold at Shardeloes for a large sign that isn't there anymore still stands - if anything, the scaffold is bigger now, with buttressing poles stopping it fall over.

[potto]

strange people