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Old August 30th, 2015, 08:33 PM   #11541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quirinalian View Post
No. I have no plans on saying anything further on that as I think I made relatively clear. I think your reaction to it is bizarre and wrapped up in a strange sense of personal pride when the entire point of my post was that stereotyping people based on political behaviour is silly.
I agree with the principle of that, it's just slightly incongruous that someone that holds such a lofty principle as you clearly do should suggest such a bizarre stereotype in the first place.
The point being this: it's not one I've heard before, and as pointed out already is totally contrary to what statistical analysis bears out.
Therefore the inevitable suspicion (apologies in advance if incorrect) is that it's a stereotype you have felt comfortable with yourself, and thus one you referenced casually.

I don't think it was unreasonable to question you on it. We have all heard the Lord Snooty stereotypes of Tories and so on. We all know they're not accurate. Asking why I don't question every stereotype is not a legitimate position from an intellectual standpoint, as it assumes we only ever question or argue any given point after exhausting every other possible alternative. This is impractical and unlikely.

Put simply, it would have been easier if you'd just done the decent thing and told us where you heard the stereotype.
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Old August 30th, 2015, 11:29 PM   #11542
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Fine, it wasn't a very nice comment. But I do think it's a clear hypocrisy and that opposition to fracking, GM foods and so on among the Scottish Government and their supporters is fairly mindless and based entirely in pandering to outdated moral panics.
I question government subsidies to switch from NSea oil to fracking. Charging 61% duty on one yet 30% on another amounts to a gigantic subsidy. NSea is established, and provides the UK with energy security. Tax relief of >30% for fracking will worsen emissions and result in huge job losses in the NEast. I don't approve of NSea oil either, but whilst it is there and the infrastructure in place it makes no sense to encourage a competing and largely unproven tech to replace it. Perhaps you can explain why onshore should pay half the tax as offshore? The environmental impacts of fracking, and the legality of drilling underneath houses and businesses is an issue too,

I don't agree with Holyrood's GM policy but considering the GM market and the actual rules (no company should have unlimited power to sue a government for banning its product) it is not an unreasonable step to continue with the existing ban. Especially with Scotland's food/drink exports and tourism potentially affected. Personally I'd prefer the existing EU route to be sped up and improved, splitting the single market for GMs mean only means multinational corps (and not universities etc) will be able to afford to get certification.
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Old August 31st, 2015, 07:51 PM   #11543
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I question government subsidies to switch from NSea oil to fracking. Charging 61% duty on one yet 30% on another amounts to a gigantic subsidy.
I think we'd have a very large debate on the definition of 'subsidy' if charging less tax on something is counted as subsidising it. They're simply doing what taxation has done throughout the ages: taxing what they can realistically get away with while keeping an industry relatively intact.

It's also worth considering that tax rates vary in accordance with the stage of development. There are reliefs for exploration and development in the North Sea - fracking, in its totality, is a new industry.

North Sea oil extraction, although expensive compared to other oil fields, is inherently a more profitable activity. Unconventional gas extraction does not seriously compare.

As for the environmental issue - a great deal of our climate change mitigation efforts have been through substitution of cleaner sources for more polluting ones. If onshore gas replaces coal or other polluting fossil fuels, it will be a net positive. The EPA attributes half of the reduction in carbon emissions in the United States since 2005 to shale gas.

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I don't approve of NSea oil either, but whilst it is there and the infrastructure in place it makes no sense to encourage a competing and largely unproven tech to replace it.
If we hadn't encouraged unproven industries to compete with existing ones, we'd never have had the Industrial Revolution - or any technological progress for that matter.

I'm not really sure what you see the downside of competition to be. That oil prices will drop? UK fracking won't make a great deal of difference to the global oil price. Certainly no more than exploring and developing new oil fields in the North Sea. Both provide revenue for the exchequer and contribute to our energy security.
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Old August 31st, 2015, 07:56 PM   #11544
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Originally Posted by CalumCookable View Post
The House of Commons is barely elected. It wastes millions of votes and grants majorities to parties with 30-odd percent of the vote. It even permits parties that have increased their vote share to lose seats. It's almost as absurd an institution as the House of "Lords".

Scottish independence was the most likely route out of this chaos, of course.
No electoral system is perfect, and the Scottish Parliament's is a hodge-podge hybrid of a first past the post and (semi-) proportional structure. Let's not forget it too produces majorities where no majority exists. It is also capable of being played like a fiddle, as they found out with a similar system in Italy, if parties stand under a different banner in constituency and regional positions.

The constituency first-past-the-post system has the same mix of drawbacks and advantages as any other one. If you want to attack the electoral system, I'd suggest you do it from a slightly more evidence-based stance than simply pointing to a UK institution and condemning it (entirely, of course, because it is a UK institution).
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Old August 31st, 2015, 11:08 PM   #11545
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Originally Posted by Quirinalian View Post
No electoral system is perfect, and the Scottish Parliament's is a hodge-podge hybrid of a first past the post and (semi-) proportional structure. Let's not forget it too produces majorities where no majority exists. It is also capable of being played like a fiddle, as they found out with a similar system in Italy, if parties stand under a different banner in constituency and regional positions.
I am perfectly well aware of how the Scottish Parliament is elected, thanks very much. Despite its imperfections, the superior proportionality of the results is beyond question.

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The constituency first-past-the-post system has the same mix of drawbacks and advantages as any other one. If you want to attack the electoral system, I'd suggest you do it from a slightly more evidence-based stance than simply pointing to a UK institution and condemning it (entirely, of course, because it is a UK institution).
If the House of Commons is ever elected by PR, I will be very pleased. But it won't be. Reform is not in the interest of Labour or the Tories, and the LibDems squandered their mandate for it.

You know virtually nothing about my politics. The assumption that I hate the HoC because it's British is risible and I will not engage with it.
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Old Yesterday, 03:34 PM   #11546
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Latest independence poll:

53% Yes
44% No
3% Undecided

Excluding Don't knows:

55% Yes
45% No

I'll do a bit of analysis when the tables are released.
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Old Yesterday, 05:35 PM   #11547
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Originally Posted by NorthLimitation View Post
Latest independence poll:

53% Yes
44% No
3% Undecided

Excluding Don't knows:

55% Yes
45% No

I'll do a bit of analysis when the tables are released.
Surely people aren't unimpressed by delivery of THE VOW to date? Surely not.
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Old Yesterday, 10:08 PM   #11548
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Did the nationalists put out rational arguments for independence or something?
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Old Yesterday, 10:44 PM   #11549
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Did the nationalists put out rational arguments for independence or something?
They don't need to when you've got the Tories it seems.
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Old Yesterday, 10:57 PM   #11550
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Did the nationalists put out rational arguments for independence or something?
People read your posts, apparently.
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Old Yesterday, 11:10 PM   #11551
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They don't need to when you've got the Tories it seems.
I can certainly believe that Tory excesses are a big part of the reason. This is exactly what the SNP wanted, I believe.

It's nice to speak to a nationalist who isn't needlessly abusive, for a change.
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Old Yesterday, 11:17 PM   #11552
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I can certainly believe that Tory excesses are a big part of the reason. This is exactly what the SNP wanted, I believe.

It's nice to speak to a nationalist who isn't needlessly abusive, for a change.
You could argue that perhaps a Tory government is what was needed at this time to highlight the two different paths, on a utilitarian calculation at any rate.

Either way, there's another 5 years of this at least.
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Last edited by NorthLimitation; Yesterday at 11:26 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 11:20 PM   #11553
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You could argue that perhaps a Tory government is what was needed at this time to highlight the two different paths, on a utilitarian calculation at any rate.
Without a doubt, a tory government helps the independence cause more than a labour government would have done. And I think it's rather obvious this is what the SNP set out to get at the last election, regardless of whether the reports of Ms Sturgeon's comments to the French ambassador are true or not.
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Old Yesterday, 11:28 PM   #11554
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regardless of whether the reports of Ms Sturgeon's comments to the French ambassador are true or not.
They weren't. We've got that Carmichael case next week now that you mention it.
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Old Yesterday, 11:33 PM   #11555
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They weren't. We've got that Carmichael case next week now that you mention it.
Have you got a link to that?
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Old Yesterday, 11:35 PM   #11556
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Have you got a link to that?
Sure man here you are:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...-broadcast-stv
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Old Yesterday, 11:56 PM   #11557
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Without a doubt, a tory government helps the independence cause more than a labour government would have done. And I think it's rather obvious this is what the SNP set out to get at the last election, regardless of whether the reports of Ms Sturgeon's comments to the French ambassador are true or not.
It certainly all is very interesting indeed. I do wonder just what the No side can actually do to stem the gradual flow of people from No to Yes. Unfortunately it seems to boil down to the Tories, being the main unionist party, having to limit themselves in what they do in government. That really doesn't seem very likely, especially as for all the genuinely unionist Tories, there are many more who really don't give a toss about Scotland so long as it would not hurt their chances at governing what's left of the UK. That conflict between the Unionist and the couldn't-care-less Tories is going to be quite problematic, especially for Unionists within Scotland. It would be quite a problem if Ruth Davidson starts getting angry about how her party didn't seem to care about having to keep Scotland happy.
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Old Today, 12:08 AM   #11558
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So,if found guity,Orkney and Shetland will have another by-election?When?

That's 57/59 Scottish seats SNP!
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Old Today, 12:30 AM   #11559
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So,if found guity,Orkney and Shetland will have another by-election?When?

That's 57/59 Scottish seats SNP!
Not sure, I'd imagine before the end of the year? Perhaps sooner!

Edit: That's a good question really now that I think of it, all depends on the length of the case etc, I'll take a look into it.
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