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Old March 8th, 2014, 07:01 PM   #3621
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Old March 10th, 2014, 02:27 AM   #3622
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I was down at Tim Hortons Field myself this afternoon - I was driving home from the in-laws in London and decided to pull into Hamilton and see how things were going first hand.

First impression was this feels a lot bigger than BMO Field

I took one lap of the site as I let my dog stretch his legs - there's about 25 pictures in all.

Started at the southeast corner and walked counter clockwise.

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Old March 10th, 2014, 03:44 AM   #3623
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BMO Field is already being seen as outdated despite only seven years of existence. Because of this, it's going to be transformed into a more "European/International"-style stadium, with a capacity that is probably higher than that of most soccer-specific stadiums in the US and Canada. Seeing as how BMO Field needed the upgrades for it to stay competitive, I was thinking, "Let's grow this beard."
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Old March 10th, 2014, 06:52 AM   #3624
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BMO Field is already being seen as outdated despite only seven years of existence. Because of this, it's going to be transformed into a more "European/International"-style stadium, with a capacity that is probably higher than that of most soccer-specific stadiums in the US and Canada.
That sucks. This should be built to reflect our own north American culture not someone else's. This isn't being built for Europeans.
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Old March 10th, 2014, 09:29 AM   #3625
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
That sucks. This should be built to reflect our own north American culture not someone else's. This isn't being built for Europeans.
Four covered stands in a rectangular shape is widely regarded as "the European style". Of course there isn't just the one style in Europe and just because the BMO Field upgrade fits the description it does not mean that it still can't reflect the culture of Canada.

Why are you so sensitive about Europe anyway? What makes a stadium reflect American culture?
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Old March 10th, 2014, 09:38 AM   #3626
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Four covered stands in a rectangular shape is widely regarded as "the European style". Of course there isn't just the one style in Europe and just because the BMO Field upgrade fits the description it does not mean that it still can't reflect the culture of Canada.

Why are you so sensitive about Europe anyway? What makes a stadium reflect American culture?
Yes, it's regarded as 'European style' even if that's not accurate. Much like you're assuming the sports on this continent to be American culture... even though that's not accurate either.

It's important that large symbolic buildings like court houses, government buildings, stadia, etc. reflect the culture. In Canada and the US we developed architecture that not only speaks to our culture, but we expect certain buildings to look a certain way. It's what makes our cities look Canadian or American instead of German or Brazilian.

Sensitive about Europe? There's been a very irritating trend (especially amongst soccer folks in north America) to label everything that's sophisticated and superior 'European' and they try to emulate Europe at every opportunity. Calling the soccer club 'FC', calling soccer 'football, using the word 'European' as a synonym for 'good/superior', and now trying to make the stadium look like something you'd find in France or England.

It all gets a little much and it's a smack in the face to the domestic culture. I might add that a lot of that crowd has utter disdain for anything north American... which also gets rather irritating after a while.
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Old March 10th, 2014, 02:00 PM   #3627
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Yes, it's regarded as 'European style' even if that's not accurate. Much like you're assuming the sports on this continent to be American culture... even though that's not accurate either.

It's important that large symbolic buildings like court houses, government buildings, stadia, etc. reflect the culture. In Canada and the US we developed architecture that not only speaks to our culture, but we expect certain buildings to look a certain way. It's what makes our cities look Canadian or American instead of German or Brazilian.

Sensitive about Europe? There's been a very irritating trend (especially amongst soccer folks in north America) to label everything that's sophisticated and superior 'European' and they try to emulate Europe at every opportunity. Calling the soccer club 'FC', calling soccer 'football, using the word 'European' as a synonym for 'good/superior', and now trying to make the stadium look like something you'd find in France or England.

It all gets a little much and it's a smack in the face to the domestic culture. I might add that a lot of that crowd has utter disdain for anything north American... which also gets rather irritating after a while.
Not to get off topic but since when do large symbolic building have to reflect our culture. BS. If anything they should reflect whatever they are.
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Old March 11th, 2014, 02:37 AM   #3628
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it's going to be transformed into a more "European/International"-style stadium, with a capacity that is probably higher than that of most soccer-specific stadiums in the US and Canada
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Old March 11th, 2014, 02:42 AM   #3629
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BMO Field was already kind of English anyway, just minus the roof. So I wouldn't say its being transformed into some more European, since it was piratically four free-standing, basic stands, which is quintessentially English.
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Old March 11th, 2014, 06:21 AM   #3630
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
That sucks. This should be built to reflect our own north American culture not someone else's. This isn't being built for Europeans.
It certainly reflects what's wanted by the current patrons of BMO Field. The appetite for soccer in Toronto is not diminishing.

Perhaps you'd care to expound your societal judgement across the entire spectrum of soccer-specific stadiums that have been, or are being, built in recent years in North America for MLS. There's lots to work with - Dallas, Columbus, LA, Portland, New York( a second coming), Philadelphia, Montreal, Denver, Salt Lake City, San Jose, Orlando and, soon, Miami. There's hard work going on in Minneapolis to create another.

If we drop down a level, to NASL, there's a host of others in many other cities to sneer at - Indianapolis, San Antonio, Charleston, Sacramento and so on. It seems to me that society is receiving what it wants.

Last edited by flashman; March 11th, 2014 at 06:29 AM.
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Old March 11th, 2014, 07:01 AM   #3631
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It certainly reflects what's wanted by the current patrons of BMO Field. The appetite for soccer in Toronto is not diminishing.
I don't have data for the average TV audience, but if we take a look at the average attendance, seems quite the opposite.


Quote:
Year - Reg. Season
2007 - 20,134
2008 - 20,108
2009 - 20,344
2010 - 20,453
2011 - 20,267
2012 - 18,681
2013 - 18,131
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto...age_attendance


BTW, we can all agree the stadium's design is really bland.
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Old March 11th, 2014, 07:12 AM   #3632
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Not to get off topic but since when do large symbolic building have to reflect our culture.
They don't have to, but since the beginning of time significant institutional buildings have always reflected or at least given nods to the greater culture. Societies reflect their culture through their buildings.
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Last edited by isaidso; March 11th, 2014 at 07:18 AM.
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Old March 11th, 2014, 07:13 AM   #3633
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It certainly reflects what's wanted by the current patrons of BMO Field. The appetite for soccer in Toronto is not diminishing.
Agree, but it's now also going to be a football stadium. It won't look like one though.

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Originally Posted by 5portsF4n View Post
BMO Field was already kind of English anyway, just minus the roof. So I wouldn't say its being transformed into some more European, since it was piratically four free-standing, basic stands, which is quintessentially English.
It is keeping with it's original aesthetic, but it's still a little disappointing from a football point of view. On a positive note, the football team will now have a football specific stadium. They haven't had that since the 1960s.
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Old March 11th, 2014, 07:39 AM   #3634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack Fair View Post
I don't have data for the average TV audience, but if we take a look at the average attendance, seems quite the opposite.




from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto...age_attendance


BTW, we can all agree the stadium's design is really bland.
It's actually pretty good attendance given the club's overall lack of performance. Never made the playoffs in a league laden with parity and opportunity to improve quickly.

Not only is the design bland, but these preliminary sketches - and they are not formal plans - show lower-lying roof structures at each end, sitting right over where each CFL end zone would be. Might be a squeeze to get football goal posts under them.

The current west side stands are decent enough structures and it looks like the re-built east side will create a near-mirror set of stands and suites, plus CFL dressing rooms, which is a decent idea.

But having such open roof structures at the ends allows a lot of wind to move about. And believe me, when the prevailing winds shift from the west and blow upfield from the lake on the south, it's like a wind tunnel in there already. Not a good thing for balls in the air.
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Old March 11th, 2014, 02:26 PM   #3635
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
They don't have to, but since the beginning of time significant institutional buildings have always reflected or at least given nods to the greater culture. Societies reflect their culture through their buildings.
Again not to get off topic but show me one significant institutional building that reflects Canada? Anything you put up can and would work in the USA, Europe or many other countries around the World.
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Old March 13th, 2014, 07:54 AM   #3636
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Again not to get off topic but show me one significant institutional building that reflects Canada?
If it's not obvious to you already, posting photos of them all won't change a thing. I don't have the time or inclination to school you either.
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Old March 13th, 2014, 09:16 AM   #3637
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Originally Posted by Calvin W View Post
Again not to get off topic but show me one significant institutional building that reflects Canada? Anything you put up can and would work in the USA, Europe or many other countries around the World.
Lambeau Field couldn't work in Europe.


Or the Colt's stadium


Or the Doak Campbell Stadium


Or Memorial Stadium


Or Michigan Stadium.


If they will build a CFL/NFL stadium in Toronto, I hope will be something like these in the U.S.
BMO is not a real football stadium.
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Old March 13th, 2014, 01:28 PM   #3638
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Not one of these "institutional" stadiums reflect "Canadian" culture.
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Old March 13th, 2014, 02:18 PM   #3639
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Not one of these "institutional" stadiums reflect "Canadian" culture.
They all do right down to the very last detail. Your understanding of our culture is sorely lacking. I doubt you even realize where football comes from. Like I alluded to before, it would take years to fill in all the blanks before you'd appreciate what you're looking at.... and it's beyond the scope of this thread.
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Last edited by isaidso; March 13th, 2014 at 02:45 PM.
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Old March 13th, 2014, 02:22 PM   #3640
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Originally Posted by Zack Fair View Post

If they will build a CFL/NFL stadium in Toronto, I hope will be something like these in the U.S.
BMO is not a real football stadium.
Agree 100%. Those stadia are all of an architecture that speaks to the culture of Canada as well as our sporting traditions. Winnipeg got it right with IG Field, Toronto deserves no less for its football team. A stadium architecture that gave strong nods to old Varsity Stadium (football) or even old Maple Leaf Stadium (baseball) is what we should be entertaining. Those buildings spoke to who we were as a people, this BMO Field design doesn't.

It's important that people see themselves reflected in important buildings rather than have them reflect someone else's culture.
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