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Old October 15th, 2017, 11:26 PM   #8741
Bogeyana
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What is happening with the economy, Brexit just hastened it. It was/is what has been happening for the 300 years of capitalism. "Business cycles" they call it or, "boom'n'bust". The recovery periods are becoming shorter and shallower with the recessions becoming ever more pronounced and longer in duration. All of which was predicted. The meltdown of capitalism in 2008 was also predicted and, without the massive bailout with your and my money, would have confined capitalism to the scrap heap of history. But the bailout with our funds was just a reprieve, and as sure as night follows day, another meltdown is on it's way and, it is us who will foot the bill for that one and those who caused it will escape the consequences and, will benefit, again.

The economic system has been a disaster, not just for the people but also the planet. Extracting fossil fuels in environmentally fragile location, then burning those fuels which pollutes the atmosphere. Deforestation on an industrial scale. Processing of mineral's which process adds to the pollutants and introduces poisons into the atmosphere. Fishing out of existence almost every edible fish species in the ocean, for the profit of the few. Then there is the exploitation of the populace, which is still happening. Industrialist moving plants off-shore to exploit cheap labour and lax environmental and health regulations. Brexit is not the cause, it is just another symptom of the exploitive system we are burdened with. But, like everything else in this 13 billion year old universe, the system will be replaced and, it won't take 13 billion years to be replaced. It is very, very close to collapsing.

What will replace it? Who knows but, does it matter? What could be worse than what has gone before? The exploitation of the majority by, and for the benefit of the few has been disastrous for the majority and the planet. The "few" would be unable to exploit the many if the parasites didn't have compliant accomplices from within our midst, the politicians. If ever there was a class of humans who could/should be classed as reptilian in nature, it is surely politicians and the lowest of those politicians are those to the right of the political spectrum.
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Last edited by Bogeyana; October 15th, 2017 at 11:32 PM.
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Old October 15th, 2017, 11:41 PM   #8742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogeyana View Post
What is happening with the economy, Brexit just hastened it. It was/is what has been happening for the 300 years of capitalism. "Business cycles" they call it or, "boom'n'bust". The recovery periods are becoming shorter and shallower with the recessions becoming ever more pronounced and longer in duration. All of which was predicted. The meltdown of capitalism in 2008 was also predicted and, without the massive bailout with your and my money, would have confined capitalism to the scrap heap of history. But the bailout with our funds was just a reprieve, and as sure as night follows day, another meltdown is on it's way and, it is us who will foot the bill for that one and those who caused it will escape the consequences and, will benefit, again.

The economic system has been a disaster, not just for the people but also the planet. Extracting fossil fuels in environmentally fragile location, then burning those fuels which pollutes the atmosphere. Deforestation on an industrial scale. Processing of mineral's which process adds to the pollutants and introduces poisons into the atmosphere. Fishing out of existence almost every edible fish species in the ocean, for the profit of the few. Then there is the exploitation of the populace, which is still happening. Industrialist moving plants off-shore to exploit cheap labour and lax environmental and health regulations. Brexit is not the cause, it is just another symptom of the exploitive system we are burdened with. But, like everything else in this 13 billion year old universe, the system will be replaced and, it won't take 13 billion years to be replaced. It is very, very close to collapsing.

What will replace it? Who knows but, does it matter? What could be worse than what has gone before? The exploitation of the majority by, and for the benefit of the few has been disastrous for the majority and the planet. The "few" would be unable to exploit the many if the parasites didn't have compliant accomplices from within our midst, the politicians. If ever there was a class of humans who could/should be classed as reptilian in nature, it is surely politicians and the lowest of those politicians are those to the right of the political spectrum.
You'll have to give up those properties I'm afraid or you'll first against the wall.
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Old October 16th, 2017, 03:42 AM   #8743
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You'll have to give up those properties I'm afraid or you'll first against the wall.
I would willingly do so, obviously you wouldn't.

Just out of curiosity; Would you agree with what I am saying if the rags of my arse was playing "God save the Queen"? Do you think that someone, anyone, who takes advantage of the system, a system put in place to enrich the few at the expense of the many, is doing something wrong? And why would you choose to criticise me, someone who you don't even know, and not those who are exploiting you personally. Do you think that by criticising me you will somehow, magically alter your own condition or lack of power to alter your own condition?

You know that the forcing of Magna Carta on the monarch by the Lords was never intended to benefit us, the masses? Or the vote, was never intended for those same unwashed masses. Just like the American Declaration of Independence proclaimed that "all men are created equal" but all the men it referred to excluded, everyone who didn't own property, slaves or business's, and it didn't include women, natives, immigrants, servants, indentured or unencumbered, Jews, Catholics or Loyalists.

Do you have a solution or, are you opposed to our breaking the bonds that bind us or, do you accept the often repeated claim that "it's not for the likes of us"? Or maybe the other chestnut from those either too lazy or stupid to do anything that may advance their condition by announcing; "I don't bother my arse with politics or religion". (What the feck religion has to do with anything.) But is almost always conjoined with the previous ridiculous statement.
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Old October 16th, 2017, 09:15 AM   #8744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogeyana View Post
I would willingly do so, obviously you wouldn't.

Just out of curiosity; Would you agree with what I am saying if the rags of my arse was playing "God save the Queen"? Do you think that someone, anyone, who takes advantage of the system, a system put in place to enrich the few at the expense of the many, is doing something wrong? And why would you choose to criticise me, someone who you don't even know, and not those who are exploiting you personally. Do you think that by criticising me you will somehow, magically alter your own condition or lack of power to alter your own condition?

You know that the forcing of Magna Carta on the monarch by the Lords was never intended to benefit us, the masses? Or the vote, was never intended for those same unwashed masses. Just like the American Declaration of Independence proclaimed that "all men are created equal" but all the men it referred to excluded, everyone who didn't own property, slaves or business's, and it didn't include women, natives, immigrants, servants, indentured or unencumbered, Jews, Catholics or Loyalists.

Do you have a solution or, are you opposed to our breaking the bonds that bind us or, do you accept the often repeated claim that "it's not for the likes of us"? Or maybe the other chestnut from those either too lazy or stupid to do anything that may advance their condition by announcing; "I don't bother my arse with politics or religion". (What the feck religion has to do with anything.) But is almost always conjoined with the previous ridiculous statement.
Sheeesh! And there's me thinking it was quite a good joke.
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Old October 16th, 2017, 12:57 PM   #8745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanderdad View Post
Sheeesh! And there's me thinking it was quite a good joke.
I interpreted it as sarcasm!
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(Graham Turner is not a Scouser)
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Old Yesterday, 12:21 AM   #8746
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For what it is worth, in today's HMG Regional Labour Market release on the internationally-recognised ILO unemployment measure, Merseyside has the lowest unemployment rate of any metropolitan county or London.

There are other measures (the Claimant Count stats don't look as good nor the employment rate measure) but nevertheless this is the first time I can remember this being the case.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentand...uthoritiesli01
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Old Yesterday, 12:54 AM   #8747
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Ok, thought about it a bit however. Is the fact that Liverpool is an area most down the path to moving from JSA to UB something to do with this?

ILO unemployment is a measure of those who are available to work but not working. However, get an hour of work and it no longer counts you. Back in the day really low numbers of hours meant that you it wasn't worth giving up your benefits. Now however with UB (well it's what Duncan Smith said would happen) if you get an hours work you could do it, get that hour's pay and the rest of your income would be made up with UB. Merseyside might have an overly large number of underemployed (seriously underemployed, not even part-time) but I don't know. For comparisons we'd have to wait until UB is fully in place all over the country for all claimants but it's taking forever already.
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Old Yesterday, 01:01 AM   #8748
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This is a bright spot of the past two decades, compared with the unemployment rates of the early 90s.
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Old Yesterday, 07:31 AM   #8749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnterDenLinden View Post
Ok, thought about it a bit however. Is the fact that Liverpool is an area most down the path to moving from JSA to UB something to do with this?
Exactly, and this is why the government are so keen to roll it out.

People have to wait 6 weeks (even if things go "well") before any payment, people are left without food, unable to pay their rent, falling into debt or worse. People being encouraged to found a business (where they can end up earning less than min-wage), people moved onto long term sickness, people struggling by on a part-time job instead of a proper job, people whose benefits are just stopped, etc.

But hey it makes the "unemployment" figures look good for the government.

With the actual employment rate - a figure they haven't yet found a way to manipulate - static and still high we can see that whatever effect the policy has, it doesn't in itself do anything to get people into work, and we will need to wait for a full roll out of the system even just to benchmark.

By all means you can rely on stats to tell you about a trajectory, but when those stats conflict with others (especially from the same dataset!) it rings alarm bells more than anything.
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Old Yesterday, 08:50 PM   #8750
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https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/new...t-relocations/

Look at those comments ..looks like the government is about to shaft Liverpool again....namechecking Leeds, Manchester and Edinburgh .....and Manchester for culture ffs ...what about the European Capital of Culture ......they seem intent on creating regional city winners and losers and it's obvious which pot we are falling in. This is the government that's taken every opportunity to save a dollar but is quite willing to pay ten pound a square foot more for offices in Manchester than Liverpool.
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Old Yesterday, 09:13 PM   #8751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnterDenLinden View Post
Ok, thought about it a bit however. Is the fact that Liverpool is an area most down the path to moving from JSA to UB something to do with this?

ILO unemployment is a measure of those who are available to work but not working. However, get an hour of work and it no longer counts you. Back in the day really low numbers of hours meant that you it wasn't worth giving up your benefits. Now however with UB (well it's what Duncan Smith said would happen) if you get an hours work you could do it, get that hour's pay and the rest of your income would be made up with UB. Merseyside might have an overly large number of underemployed (seriously underemployed, not even part-time) but I don't know. For comparisons we'd have to wait until UB is fully in place all over the country for all claimants but it's taking forever already.
Are the stats city region or city ? I think the changes haven't been widely rolled out yet, but in Cheshire for example they have so im not convinced this underlies the data. There is a lot of underemployment in Liverpool though you are right, in common with most cities.

There's some strange and contradictory stats out there which make it difficult to get a clear picture e.g. Liverpool has higher average wages and disposable income than places like Manchester and Birmingham, has lower unemployment, but slightly worse poverty stats, and lower GDP. Try figuring all of that out !
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Old Yesterday, 11:34 PM   #8752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post
https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/new...t-relocations/

Look at those comments ..looks like the government is about to shaft Liverpool again....namechecking Leeds, Manchester and Edinburgh .....and Manchester for culture ffs ...what about the European Capital of Culture ......they seem intent on creating regional city winners and losers and it's obvious which pot we are falling in. This is the government that's taken every opportunity to save a dollar but is quite willing to pay ten pound a square foot more for offices in Manchester than Liverpool.
They were mentioned as examples you also missed this bit out - "Securing major Government office requirements would be a game-changer for many of the country’s regional cities, but especially for places such as Liverpool with a struggling office market and a need to create more private sector jobs. While there are several large-scale office development on the cards, for instance at Pall Mall and Liverpool Waters, sizable pre-lets are required to get them out of the ground." Until anything is actually announced lets not speculate.
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Old Yesterday, 11:46 PM   #8753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Invictious View Post
Are the stats city region or city ? I think the changes haven't been widely rolled out yet, but in Cheshire for example they have so im not convinced this underlies the data. There is a lot of underemployment in Liverpool though you are right, in common with most cities.

There's some strange and contradictory stats out there which make it difficult to get a clear picture e.g. Liverpool has higher average wages and disposable income than places like Manchester and Birmingham, has lower unemployment, but slightly worse poverty stats, and lower GDP. Try figuring all of that out !
The factor that explains all of these is the population with or looking for work compared to the working age population (the so called participation rate). Those that do work tend to be more productive and are paid higher (see France vs UK productivity) and those that are out of work but looking tend to get work quickly and so the unemployment rate is low, but there is a larger than usual population of working age who for whatever reason are not in the labour market, and so this brings down per capita GDP and raises poverty levels vis a vis elsewhere. A key local/ regional policy challenge should be to raise the participation rate of Liverpool.

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Old Today, 02:01 AM   #8754
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List of bodies that could fall under the non-ministerial culture banner, removing those that have necessary bases in other cities or are now defunct, taken from wikipedia:

The DCMS has policy responsibility for three statutory corporations and two public broadcasting authorities. These bodies and their operation are largely independent of Government policy influence.

Non-ministerial departments

The National Archives

The statutory corporations are:

Channel Four Television Corporation
Office of Communications (Ofcom) – shared with the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (BIS)

The public broadcasting authorities are:

British Broadcasting Corporation

The DCMS sponsors the following executive non-departmental public bodies:

Arts Council England
British Film Institute
Equality and Human Rights Commission
Gambling Commission
Historic England (separated from English Heritage in 2015, formally the Historic Buildings & Monuments Commission for England)
Horserace Betting Levy Board
Information Commissioner's Office
National Heritage Memorial Fund (the Trustees of the NHMF also administer the Heritage Lottery Fund)
Sport England (formally the English Sports Council)
Sports Grounds Safety Authority
UK Anti-Doping
UK Sport (formally the UK Sports Council)
VisitBritain (formally the British Tourist Authority)
VisitEngland

The DCMS sponsors the following advisory non departmental public bodies:

Reviewing Committee on the Export of Works of Art and Objects of Cultural Interest
Theatres Trust
Treasure Valuation Committee

DCMS also has responsibility for other bodies classified by the Office for National Statistics as being within the central government sector:

Churches Conservation Trust
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Old Today, 02:26 PM   #8755
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Hi Flan , if you read the Place Northwest article ...the advisor to the government specifically name checks Manchester and not Liverpool. The bit about the Liverpool Office Market was added by the person who wrote the article for Place Northwest. my guess is they will point to the HMRC jobs at India Buildings when they talk of relocating govt jobs even though most of them were based in Bootle anyway.
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Old Today, 02:29 PM   #8756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Invictious View Post
Are the stats city region or city ? I think the changes haven't been widely rolled out yet, but in Cheshire for example they have so im not convinced this underlies the data. There is a lot of underemployment in Liverpool though you are right, in common with most cities.

There's some strange and contradictory stats out there which make it difficult to get a clear picture e.g. Liverpool has higher average wages and disposable income than places like Manchester and Birmingham, has lower unemployment, but slightly worse poverty stats, and lower GDP. Try figuring all of that out !
I was referring to the figures for Merseyside, Metropolitan County of. Here is the link again: https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentand...uthoritiesli01.
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