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Old July 18th, 2007, 01:20 PM   #61
up the tigers
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Originally Posted by danz013 View Post
Are we in Hull, Leicester and Nottingham really that big we need our own sub forums? I hate to say it but after looking at all our threads today... I still don't think we are...? I'd hate to dilute what already seem to be so great here on skyscraper city with this super county system if its not going to work.....
I think the reason why Leicester, Nottingham, hull forums arent as busy as Sheffield, Leeds ones is because there arent seperate sections for the different developments so often you feel reluctant to go onto a different project to the topic being talked about. With different sections you wouldn't have to wait until the right time to say something of post some pics of a particular thing. There would be a dedicated place for it.

Afterall there isnt that much more to talk about in Sheffield, Leeds than in Hull, Nottingham, Leicester is there. The only difference is there may be more tall buildings being constructed. Its just they seem busier due to the different sections.
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Old July 18th, 2007, 01:23 PM   #62
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Good points UTT. Also, as we've discussed before, there is the issue of somewhere like Beverley for example...We can't really post development news and stories about it in the hull thread, and it would be lost forever if we tried posting a new thread at the bottom of projects and construction, and might not even be seen by the other hull forumers, so where does it go?? This example also stands for hundreds of other towns accross the country.

With my proposal, it would go into the EYL section on a dedicated Beverley thread and stand a much bigger fighting chance IMO.
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Old July 18th, 2007, 01:25 PM   #63
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up the tigers... and lego... fair point to the both of ya. I agree
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Old July 18th, 2007, 08:59 PM   #64
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It's quite interesting that a debate about where to put threads about housing developments in East Yorkshire has so accuaretely reflected the problems inherent in English regionalism. If you focus on cities then the smaller ones get ignored, if you focus on regions then the intra-regional conflict stops anything productive happening.

Well it amused me anyway.
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Old July 18th, 2007, 09:21 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Cherguevara View Post
It's quite interesting that a debate about where to put threads about housing developments in East Yorkshire has so accuaretely reflected the problems inherent in English regionalism. If you focus on cities then the smaller ones get ignored, if you focus on regions then the intra-regional conflict stops anything productive happening.

Well it amused me anyway.

Oh. How delightfully congenial for you.

Personally I'm more of the opinion that problems inherent in the efforts to regenerate UK regions are in large part down to snooty, ignorant, prejudiced morons making things triply difficult. But that's for another thread.

Oh, and where is all this intra-regional conflict? People have been co-operating really well on this constructive, important discussion thread. Which you might have discovered if you'd stopped giggling behind your fancy lace hanky and actually read it.

Anyway, we think we've found a solution to the fact that smaller cities get ignored on the forum.

You sound like you've got a problem with that. Why?
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Old July 18th, 2007, 10:44 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Cherguevara View Post
I don't have a problem with it. I just don't think getting more people into subforums is worth pissing off those already in them.

I have read the thread, and a lovely discussion it is too. But you can bet as soon as your regional solution was implemented people'd stop cooperating and start tearing strips off one another.

Anyway, I wasn't amused by the thread, so much as by the fact that the same things that have actually caused political problems in the real world can cause problems here.

It's only a web forum. Christ
Fair enough. Why didn't you say it like that in the first place? you big silly!

Anyway, you're right. It's only a web forum.

And yes, I am Christ.
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Old July 19th, 2007, 03:23 PM   #67
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Quote:
It's quite interesting that a debate about where to put threads about housing developments in East Yorkshire has so accuaretely reflected the problems inherent in English regionalism. If you focus on cities then the smaller ones get ignored, if you focus on regions then the intra-regional conflict stops anything productive happening.
this is my view on the matter too. also some lpaces benefit more from being individual cities whilst others will benefit more from being regions. anyway keep talking and let's see what people can come up with!
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Old July 19th, 2007, 08:55 PM   #68
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Well, obviously the city system works at the moment for the cities with the subforums, but not for the ones that don't, or else there would be no reason for this thread to exist.

Like I said, my regional proposal would include enough big cities in each section to keep them busy, but not so many that other places in the area wouldn't get a look in. I hear what you say about Liverpool and Manchester in a north west thread, so I say, wh don't we keep the current city region subforums as they are but include regional subforums as well.

This seems to work on the North American section, where the top half of the page links to 'regional' subforums - 'Midwest and Plains', 'Northeast and Mid Atlantic' etc. whilst the next section has a selection of cities. The bottom part is a heading of 'General' - which on the UK frontpage could include the Skybar, Skylines and Photography, Transport and Infrastructure etc.

LINK: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=103
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Old July 19th, 2007, 11:14 PM   #69
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I think what legolamb said makes sense, but I think it would work best if on the front page there were all the regions, each having their own sub forums as mentioned before, then where a region includes a number of big cities such as the North West or Yorkshire, there are city forums within the regional ones. Then if there becomes a need for things like skybars then you have regional ones. Where a regional sub-forum is more quiet then there would be no individual city forums within them. So it'd look something like this:

Projects & Construction

-- Ireland (NI & ROI)

-- Scotland
> Glasgow Metro Area
-- North East & Cumbria

-- North West
> Liverpool Metro Area
> Manchester Metro Area
> Possibly a North West Skybar
-- Yorkshire (whole of Yorkshire & Humber)
> Leeds Metro Area
> Sheffield Metro Area
> Possibly a Hull Metro Area Forum
> Possibly a Yorkshire Skybar
-- Midlands (including East Midlands & Lincolnshire)
> Birmingham Metro Area
> Possibly a Midlands Skybar
-- Wales

-- South West

-- South East
> London Metro Area
> Possibly a South East Skybar
I think with this arrangement there are not too many sub forums cluttering up the front page but both the regions and the biggest individual cities get included. In addition, if individual city threads get busier and warrent their own metro area sub forum then they can just be added to their respective regional forum.
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Old July 19th, 2007, 11:30 PM   #70
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Would be good to get to those regional links by clicking on 'Projects and Construction' on the very first UK thread (which would include national subforums such as transport and infrastructure, skylines and photography, the sports field and a national skybar.

Also underneath the metro areas, have individual threads for towns and cities in the region.

For example to find a thread on developments in Wrexham, you would click:

Skyscrapercity > UK and Ireland Architecture Forums > Projects and Construction > Wales and bingo! there would be an individual Wrexham developments thread on the bottom half of the page (along with ones for Newport, Llandudno and Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch) , underneath the Swansea and Cardiff Metro Area threads...

Or

to find information on Barking:

Skyscrapercity > UK and Ireland Architecture forums > Projects and Construction > South East > London Metro Area > Barking Development Thread.

I think, with a bit of fine tuning, this could be perfect, good work Andrew!
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Old July 19th, 2007, 11:35 PM   #71
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As another example...the individual threads in each region section dont have to be related to towns but could be to do with the whole region.

So to post a thread to do with a North West Development agency, you would go to the North west region and start a new thread on the lower half of the page, underneath the Manchester, Liverpool (and possibly other subforums)
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Old July 19th, 2007, 11:48 PM   #72
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I agree with the points andrew gave... I like the system... however...

Nottingham and Leicester.... have major developments.... as you know this thread was started as a cry from the boys in leicester... i'm not going to begin to say how much developments we have in nottingham over anyone else or anything but.... If hull deserves it own metro area...so do many other places.. SPECIFICALLY INCLUDING NOTTINGHAM....
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Old July 20th, 2007, 12:02 AM   #73
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Yeah, you're right dan, don't fret. I would have said the same. if you are clicking on the Midlands regional link under 'projects and construction' there is room for loads of midlands subforums though.

So, to find a thread on the Ozone Development, you would go:

Uk and Ireland architecture forums > Projects and development > Midlands > Nottingham metro Area > Ozone thread.

Each region would have a dedicated page to itself, so there could be up to about 5 or 6 metro areas and unlimited individual threads for other areas in that region.
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Old July 20th, 2007, 12:26 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
I think what legolamb said makes sense, but I think it would work best if on the front page there were all the regions, each having their own sub forums as mentioned before, then where a region includes a number of big cities such as the North West or Yorkshire, there are city forums within the regional ones. Then if there becomes a need for things like skybars then you have regional ones. Where a regional sub-forum is more quiet then there would be no individual city forums within them. So it'd look something like this:

Projects & Construction

-- Ireland (NI & ROI)

-- Scotland
> Glasgow Metro Area
-- North East & Cumbria

-- North West
> Liverpool Metro Area
> Manchester Metro Area
> Possibly a North West Skybar
-- Yorkshire (whole of Yorkshire & Humber)
> Leeds Metro Area
> Sheffield Metro Area
> Possibly a Hull Metro Area Forum
> Possibly a Yorkshire Skybar
-- Midlands (including East Midlands & Lincolnshire)
> Birmingham Metro Area
> Possibly a Midlands Skybar
-- Wales

-- South West

-- South East
> London Metro Area
> Possibly a South East Skybar
I think with this arrangement there are not too many sub forums cluttering up the front page but both the regions and the biggest individual cities get included. In addition, if individual city threads get busier and warrent their own metro area sub forum then they can just be added to their respective regional forum.
This format looks great - an organic development of the current successful boards. It's accessibility invites newcomers to contribute and get involved.
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Old July 20th, 2007, 01:32 AM   #75
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I'm not feeling the regional forum thing at all...

The last thing we want to do is create 'dead zones' in the forum.

In my view there are still only a handful that justify their own sub-forum at the moment and I think it would be unwise to force a wholesale reorganisation to satisfy those folks that are currently feeling left out.

I would suggest that the following have their own sub-forums:

Hull
Cardiff
Leicester
Nottingham
Preston
Coventry

...these all have in excess of 1,000 replies and would benefit from 'thread rationalisation' immediately.

The others should aim to have their own sub-forums when they reach a 1,000 (or more) reply watershed. As those sub-forums grow, they can further sub-divide by having their own Construction and possibly even Skybar sections at some point in the future... I certainly feel that Manchester would benefit from having the same structure as Liverpool - and both those areas are pretty busy at times.

This structure would reward those members who have been generous enough to post here in the first place, AND allow them the space and flexibility to build a platform that is more conducive to continuous discussion, rather than a fragmented linear one.

I think it would be too much work to have ALL cities with their own sub-forum's and they would also be difficult to moderate, so I suggest we take the first step as above.

I think regional forums will fragment the space far more than is necessary, and possibly cause isolation...
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Old July 20th, 2007, 02:07 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
I think what legolamb said makes sense, but I think it would work best if on the front page there were all the regions, each having their own sub forums as mentioned before, then where a region includes a number of big cities such as the North West or Yorkshire, there are city forums within the regional ones. Then if there becomes a need for things like skybars then you have regional ones. Where a regional sub-forum is more quiet then there would be no individual city forums within them. So it'd look something like this:

Projects & Construction

-- Ireland (NI & ROI)

-- Scotland
> Glasgow Metro Area
-- North East & Cumbria

-- North West
> Liverpool Metro Area
> Manchester Metro Area
> Possibly a North West Skybar
-- Yorkshire (whole of Yorkshire & Humber)
> Leeds Metro Area
> Sheffield Metro Area
> Possibly a Hull Metro Area Forum
> Possibly a Yorkshire Skybar
-- Midlands (including East Midlands & Lincolnshire)
> Birmingham Metro Area
> Possibly a Midlands Skybar
-- Wales

-- South West

-- South East
> London Metro Area
> Possibly a South East Skybar
I think with this arrangement there are not too many sub forums cluttering up the front page but both the regions and the biggest individual cities get included. In addition, if individual city threads get busier and warrent their own metro area sub forum then they can just be added to their respective regional forum.
Fantastic suggestion. The best I've heard.
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Old July 20th, 2007, 04:15 AM   #77
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well.... i'm all for it... so have we reached a conclusion then? Moderators... what dya think?
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Old July 20th, 2007, 01:24 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b4mmy View Post
I'm not feeling the regional forum thing at all...

The last thing we want to do is create 'dead zones' in the forum.

In my view there are still only a handful that justify their own sub-forum at the moment and I think it would be unwise to force a wholesale reorganisation to satisfy those folks that are currently feeling left out.

I would suggest that the following have their own sub-forums:

Hull
Cardiff
Leicester
Nottingham
Preston
Coventry

...these all have in excess of 1,000 replies and would benefit from 'thread rationalisation' immediately.

The others should aim to have their own sub-forums when they reach a 1,000 (or more) reply watershed. As those sub-forums grow, they can further sub-divide by having their own Construction and possibly even Skybar sections at some point in the future... I certainly feel that Manchester would benefit from having the same structure as Liverpool - and both those areas are pretty busy at times.

This structure would reward those members who have been generous enough to post here in the first place, AND allow them the space and flexibility to build a platform that is more conducive to continuous discussion, rather than a fragmented linear one.

I think it would be too much work to have ALL cities with their own sub-forum's and they would also be difficult to moderate, so I suggest we take the first step as above.

I think regional forums will fragment the space far more than is necessary, and possibly cause isolation...
I take your point, but I personally don't want only a Cardiff subforum, I would rather a Wales subforum. The reason being, I think it's better to keep all the Wales threads together in one forum. We can't have the Newport, Swansea and other Wales threads in the main projects and construction forum while Cardiff gets it's own subforum.

I also don't think it's fair to use a Cardiff Metro Area subforum to represent Wales because Wales is much more than Cardiff. We may already have that situation with Glasgow representing Scotland on these forums but I personally don't want it to be the same for Wales, especially when people in North Wales simply don't identify that closely with Cardiff.

I don't know how people feel about the other regions but where there are a number of significant cities within a region, I'd rather not have just the biggest city of that region representing them all. If, say in the case of Cardiff, the number of people increases further then there may become a need to open a Cardiff subforum within the Wales subforum, but within the context of the structure I set out above, it's addition would not make the forum an overly complicated place. On the other hand, just adding new cities into the existing structure will result in a vast list of cities on the front page, some with their own skybars etc. I think it would look very cluttered very quickly. At least with the regional approach, there are no more than nine subforums visible on the front page no matter how many individual city subforums there are in total.

I also take your point about some regions being too quiet (though I doubt they'll be any more quiet than the rather pointless 'Completed Projects' subforum with it's 18 threads which have just been dumped there from other places). There are only three regions that I can see in my list which might be quite quiet, and those are: Ireland, North East & Cumbria and South West. Of those I think only Ireland will be very quiet at the start, however I imane it'd get more busy once they have their own forum. The other two regions have at least one big(ish) popular city thread each (NE & Cumbria has Newcastle, while SW has Bristol) and so ought to be busy enough. I'm not quite sure why Ireland doesn't have a decent sized Dublin thread though.
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Old July 20th, 2007, 03:06 PM   #79
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It's just the injustice of it all that grates me. Liverpool has three seperate forums under the main 'Projects and Construction' banner, whereas the other large cities have one.

Cardiff already has a very substantial forum over at www.cardiffwalesmap.com, so unless the mods want this to occur at every city they should act quick sharp to get a better forum and thread format for the site.
I don't think warning shots will help get anything done. Liverpool's model is being roadtested at the moment, but my view is that it has worked and soon I hope Manchester will have the same structure. In any event you are talking about sub-forums that have in excess of 70,000 posts each and you can't compare them to the smaller ones. Yet.

I have joined this debate because I agree that some of the other cities should have a forum of their own, but I think you should be aware that SSC is far from complacent.
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Old July 20th, 2007, 04:30 PM   #80
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haha, yeah I wasnt firing a warning shot as such, just the reality of the situation. It's very difficult to attract more readers and posters with the threads for Cardiff, Bristol, Newcastle etc in their current state. The fact is that there is demand for more threads for cities, but currently we more or less have to clump them under the relevent developments thread, which makes continuity and interesting debate harder. I love SSC, but it's just the case that other websites will spring up if they don't provide more forums.
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