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Old August 7th, 2005, 06:07 PM   #21
LABlue
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Wink B&Q in Los Angeles

No B&Q, only BBQ so I cant do the kitchen yet !

I told the missus I'd get right on it as soon as they open one.

Any fundraising by the Echo towards the costs will be very welcome. Isnt there 170M from Merseytram I can get a bit of ?
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Old August 7th, 2005, 09:17 PM   #22
woody
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This will sail thro the ................

Quote:
Originally Posted by kung_fuzi
One problem with this Woody, Cheiftains objection to Gateway could hold it up for some considerable time.
Valid point Kung_fuzi, but all the omens tell me that this vital project will sail thro the planning process. First look at the supporters: LCC, LV, EP, NR and Merseytravel. Second English Heritage have backed the plan which includes the 28/30 mike tower. Thirdly the developers Lliad and Carillion have been in talks for over a year with the Planning Dept. to agree planning and design issues. The final and most compelling aurgument for the go-ahead is that all parties want to see the back of Concourse House and those crap shops, and turn what is a disgrace of a main line terminal into a warm and welcoming gateway to the new Liverpool.

Should Chieftain object, I would not expect much sympathy shown to them by Lady D and chums.

Having looked at the new renders, I can see why the Chieftain Tower was thrown out, far to close to the Gateway Tower. I never thought I would say this but the planners might just have made the correct decision.

Lets hope that space can be filled with a 17 mike tower and this would be approved.
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Old August 7th, 2005, 09:27 PM   #23
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Quote:
Having looked at the new renders, I can see why the Chieftain Tower was thrown out, far to close to the Gateway Tower. I never thought I would say this but the planners might just have made the correct decision.
I think it looks a bit ridiculous in those renders myself.
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Old August 7th, 2005, 09:59 PM   #24
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Maybe the nasty 60's buildings on the other side of Lime Street next to the ABC cinema site, would be better for a tall building. This would be further away from both St Georges and Concourse tower. The whole block needs re-developing right along to the curved Kumar building, which would suit a tall curved fronted building also.
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Old August 8th, 2005, 01:25 AM   #25
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2008 won't be the great year some people say it will be by the looks of things. However, alien invasions and huge asteriods aside, we can still look forward to 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012...
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Old August 8th, 2005, 03:06 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woody
Valid point Kung_fuzi, but all the omens tell me that this vital project will sail thro the planning process. First look at the supporters: LCC, LV, EP, NR and Merseytravel. Second English Heritage have backed the plan which includes the 28/30 mike tower. Thirdly the developers Lliad and Carillion have been in talks for over a year with the Planning Dept. to agree planning and design issues. The final and most compelling aurgument for the go-ahead is that all parties want to see the back of Concourse House and those crap shops, and turn what is a disgrace of a main line terminal into a warm and welcoming gateway to the new Liverpool.

Should Chieftain object, I would not expect much sympathy shown to them by Lady D and chums.

Having looked at the new renders, I can see why the Chieftain Tower was thrown out, far to close to the Gateway Tower. I never thought I would say this but the planners might just have made the correct decision.

Lets hope that space can be filled with a 17 mike tower and this would be approved.

Woody, Wouldn't the 17 mikey be just as close as the 32?
Why half the height just to please EH?
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Old August 8th, 2005, 03:59 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woody
Valid point Kung_fuzi, but all the omens tell me that this vital project will sail thro the planning process. First look at the supporters: LCC, LV, EP, NR and Merseytravel. Second English Heritage have backed the plan which includes the 28/30 mike tower. Thirdly the developers Lliad and Carillion have been in talks for over a year with the Planning Dept. to agree planning and design issues. The final and most compelling aurgument for the go-ahead is that all parties want to see the back of Concourse House and those crap shops, and turn what is a disgrace of a main line terminal into a warm and welcoming gateway to the new Liverpool.

Should Chieftain object, I would not expect much sympathy shown to them by Lady D and chums.

Having looked at the new renders, I can see why the Chieftain Tower was thrown out, far to close to the Gateway Tower. I never thought I would say this but the planners might just have made the correct decision.

Lets hope that space can be filled with a 17 mike tower and this would be approved.

Sorry Woody i believe that this is the first time i will disagree with you. whats the problem with having another tower close to teh concourse house repalcement????

Indeed is this not all part of helping to create a modern city with a recognisable cluster ???

Personally the Chieftan had much more going for it in the fact that it at least provided us with a mixed use scheme.

Each to there own tho!
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Old August 8th, 2005, 06:38 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kung_fuzi
Woody, Wouldn't the 17 mikey be just as close as the 32?
Why half the height just to please EH?
You could be right, all parties see this Lime St Gateway tower as a beacon ,announcing the location of the station, I am guessing thats how it was sold to EH, a single tower, and they raised no objections, also they would have been mindful that this Gateway project was the only way that the clearing away of Concourse House and shops could be gauranteed, helped of course by EP who coughed up the cash to buy them.

The Chieftain site does have planning permission for a 12 mike tower, but the planning manager has said if it was raised to 17 mikes , it would be ok. This may go back some 12 months when LV said that a "re-clad" of Concourse House was on the agenda, if that had happened both towers would have been almost the same height.

The rejection of the Chieftain tower was a blow, but we can still look foreward to a very exciting tower that will look stunning when that nice "BLUE HALO" is glowing.
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Old August 8th, 2005, 06:52 PM   #29
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Don`t be sorry...........

Quote:
Originally Posted by bustcapl
Sorry Woody i believe that this is the first time i will disagree with you. whats the problem with having another tower close to teh concourse house repalcement????

Indeed is this not all part of helping to create a modern city with a recognisable cluster ???

Personally the Chieftan had much more going for it in the fact that it at least provided us with a mixed use scheme.

Each to there own tho!
bustcap, I have no problems with disagreements , I did (and still do ) support the Chieftain Tower, we all said when it was announced that this tower would be mighty close to the Gateway tower, and it will to a point overshadow it. That I think was the principle problem for EH, as for CABE the architects would have made design changes ( ala Beetham West Tower) to get the nod.

I must disagree with you as to the relative importance of these 2 towers, for me the Gateway Tower is the priority as the tower will generate the finance to help pay for the first phase of improvements to the station .
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Old August 8th, 2005, 07:12 PM   #30
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I'm unsure as to why the council designated the area around Lime St Station as suitable for a highrise cluster. I would much prefer it if all the highrises we're built around the Old Hall Street/Princes Dock area. More space too. The main aspect of this scheme I support is the clearing of the disgusting shops and Concourse House in front of the gorgeous Lime St Station arches. The tower is an added bonus, despite the fact I would much rather it was built elsewhere.
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Old August 8th, 2005, 09:55 PM   #31
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Wink 3 Talls = 1 cluster..........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Accura_Preston
I'm unsure as to why the council designated the area around Lime St Station as suitable for a highrise cluster. I would much prefer it if all the highrises we're built around the Old Hall Street/Princes Dock area. More space too. The main aspect of this scheme I support is the clearing of the disgusting shops and Concourse House in front of the gorgeous Lime St Station arches. The tower is an added bonus, despite the fact I would much rather it was built elsewhere.
The reason Accy that this area was designated as a Tall Building Zone is simple, to legitimise the building of the Gateway Tower and assist English Heritage in not making waves. The Central Station site being developed by Ballymore will also have a tower that again the city want, these two with Radio City Tower will for the time being will complete the cluster in this part of town.

Lime Street Gateway is only phase 1 of the station re-vamp to finish in 2007,
Phase 2 will run from 2008 to 2010 with new offices on the Copperas Hill side of the station. Phase 3 2010 to 2013 will see further extentions to the back of the station, so having this area in a Tall Building Zone could prove very useful in the years ahead. The Royal Mail building site could also come available in the not to distant future ,again a prime site for a tower.
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Old August 9th, 2005, 04:47 PM   #32
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Quote:
The reason Accy that this area was designated as a Tall Building Zone is simple, to legitimise the building of the Gateway Tower and assist English Heritage in not making waves. The Central Station site being developed by Ballymore will also have a tower that again the city want, these two with Radio City Tower will for the time being will complete the cluster in this part of town.
While the idea of a cluster at the northern, eastern and southern gateways to the city centre makes general sense, I agree with Woody that the Tall Buildings Policy looked suspiciously like it was designed to legitimize existing plans for towers. This also explains in part why the southern cluster is so far away from the real southern gateway to the centre (which as I've said before is about where Windsor have proposed their tower) - it is to accommodate residential towers at Kings Waterfront. I think planners were probably taken aback to get another tower proposal at Lime St so soon after publishing the policy.

However it seems likely that the final policy will not propose a cluster at Lime St. EH are a consultee on the policy as it moves from draft to final version, they have made their view clear, and the planning manager seems to agree with it.

This may present a problem for Central Station, but as consultees are rumoured to be divided (we don't yet know what CABE thinks though), the Council will have more room for manoeuvre. (I can't figure out why the DP/E keeps saying this is up for decision soon. The Planning Explorer still reports the application as withdrawn and I can't find another one. So a decision would be about 6 months away. Unless, perhaps, all the issues are being worked out at pre-application stage, in which case when it goes in it could move quickly.)

I think it is possible to make a case both for clusters and for single towers at key locations. However, towers dotted around wherever developers happen to have acquired land is harder to justify in planning terms.
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Old August 9th, 2005, 05:51 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woody
get the nod.

I must disagree with you as to the relative importance of these 2 towers, for me the Gateway Tower is the priority as the tower will generate the finance to help pay for the first phase of improvements to the station .
how????
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Old August 10th, 2005, 07:46 PM   #34
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They don`t get it for ..............

Quote:
Originally Posted by bustcapl
how????
The developer will have to pay in two ways, first for the privilage of building on land that is owned by others and second developers also (as part of planning approval) are required to contribute to any public realm work in the immediate area of their tower. They would chip-in as will LCC, NR ,Merseytravel with over £4M coming from the LCC ,thanks to a pay-back from Bill Davis.
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