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Old July 24th, 2005, 01:40 PM   #1
John Matrix 1985
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Are Council planners on drugs?

Why is it that whenever a new project gets submitted, Brunswick Tower & now the Skelhorne Street Tower that the council rejects it without any reasonable explanation? They approved the Bullet Tower on Old Hall Street which had far more objections from residents than other projects yet the Brunswick Tower was sorted with the existing residents but then rejected for no apparent reason. I thought that the council are elected to serve the people and attract investment for jobs etc? - yet they always seem to have their own petty agendas and pet schemes that it is rejected out of hand. Sorry if i have brought up old news again but reading the Skelhorne project being "likely to be refused" has p-ed me off no end.
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Old July 24th, 2005, 02:39 PM   #2
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Is there a big LD influence? I've noticed tha they like to keep things original and get whats there working fully before any new things, which should be at top quality it seems. This seems to slow development alot though- unfourtanetley Liverpool's growth could slow if these things don't get through. It would be fantastic to see Liverpool as a new city, with things like the Brunswick Tower built by 2008 for capital of culture. Possibly though little development in a city under alot of demand will push prices up alot, like they have done here in Harrogate, and similar in York, or at least in the city centre. If Liverpool doesn't get developments through it can't grow much really.
Even I've noticed Liverpool's council are a bit strange- who would reject so many proposals when its become obvious people are looking at Liverpool to invest in...
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Old July 24th, 2005, 03:02 PM   #3
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Quote:
Sorry if i have brought up old news again but reading the Skelhorne project being "likely to be refused" has p-ed me off no end.
See, I can't understand where the Echo got the info to make this claim from because back when this tower went to the Waterfront Area committee there was no specific objection to it, all that was said was:


Quote:
The Committee noted this application and expressed the view that adequate parking must be in place and that residents are not disrupted during construction
This is where they usually say that they are recommending rejection but they don't.

So, i'd like to know what has suddenly cropped up to change the planners minds, the submition of the planning application for the Gateway tower scheme perhaps. We know EH only want one tower built here (the Gateway tower), yet this area has been designated as one of the three areas in town where tall buildings should be clustered.

Last edited by Liverdude; July 24th, 2005 at 03:39 PM.
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Old July 24th, 2005, 03:10 PM   #4
John Matrix 1985
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Thanks for your views & its interesting to see what an outsider makes of the city. I seem baffled by the decisions the council make, plus the various regeneration bodies who seem to slow everything down. If they were a public company they would have to justify their decisions to shareholders etc but no one in any of these bodies seems accountable.
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Old July 24th, 2005, 05:36 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Matrix 1985
If they were a public company they would have to justify their decisions to shareholders etc but no one in any of these bodies seems accountable.
That is because the people of Liverpool (electorate) do not hold them to account, are satisfied with mediocrity in who they choose to represent them and mediocrity in the built environment. The local press is weak and submissive and will only challenge what they think will make them look good. The 'SUN' Hillsborough fight, a London City airlink campaign readilly come to mind. Ask them (Daily Post & Echo) why no fight for a Heathrow link? Liverpool is the only major European city outside a 300k radius of it's capital city that doesn't have an air link to it's nations major international gateway.

As far as major national and international air links are concerned, Liverpool is a suburb of Manchester. If I book pax to the UK, 90 + % will be via Heathrow and, if their final destination is to another city Leeds/Newcastle/Derby/Edinburgh/Glasgow/Belfast etc, I will plus them on to that destination. Pax destined for Liverpool will go to Manchester then by road/rail to Liverpool.
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Old July 24th, 2005, 07:41 PM   #6
woody
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Question Waterfront Area Committee , who are they ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liverdude
See, I can't understand where the Echo got the info to make this claim from because back when this tower went to the Waterfront Area committee there was no specific objection to it, all that was said was:




This is where they usually say that they are recommending rejection but they don't.

So, i'd like to know what has suddenly cropped up to change the planners minds, the submition of the planning application for the Gateway tower scheme perhaps. We know EH only want one tower built here (the Gateway tower), yet this area has been designated as one of the three areas in town where tall buildings should be clustered.

Liverdude, interesting comments, I am puzzled re the function of the Waterfront Area Committee, who are they ? who sits on this committee ?
I would have thought that this committee like the many other agencies could only make recomendation to the Planning Manager who then submitts his report to the elected planning committee, and it is this committe, Lady D and chums who say yes or no.
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Old July 24th, 2005, 07:47 PM   #7
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I probably wouldn't have thought the comments would be important but can you guess who is chair of the committee?

MUNBY!

From what I can see all planning application for that area go before the committee who comment on it and decide wether or not to oppose it, this kind of stuff:

http://councillors.liverpool.gov.uk/...MeetingId=2774

EDIT-This might explain what they do.

Under the Code of Consultation, all Area Committees are asked to comment on major planning applications which have been received since the previous meeting. This will not include Householder applications or those that are normally determined by the Officers using delegated powers. Applications will be introduced and explained if necessary by a planning officer. Any questions that arise will endeavour to be replied to and the views of the Area Committee will be sought. Because of the statutory time scales involved the Area Committee will have to give a view on the application as submitted and it will not be possible for them to defer consideration of such applications.



The resolutions of the Area Committee on each planning application will be reported to the Planning Committee, together with any other representations received. The views expressed will be taken into account when the Planning Committee determines the applications.

Last edited by Liverdude; July 24th, 2005 at 07:53 PM.
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Old July 24th, 2005, 07:53 PM   #8
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Mumby, oh sh*t

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liverdude
I probably wouldn't have thought the comments would be important but can you guess who is chair of the committee?

MUNBY!

From what I can see all planning application for that area go before the committee who comment on it and decide wether or not to oppose it, this kind of stuff:

http://councillors.liverpool.gov.uk/...MeetingId=2774
Cheers Liverdude, There must be hope if Mumby did not object.
Could it be that Skelhorne Street is nowhere near the waterfront
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Old July 24th, 2005, 08:00 PM   #9
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Thumbs up I am with it now

The resolutions of the Area Committee on each planning application will be reported to the Planning Committee, together with any other representations received. The views expressed will be taken into account when the Planning Committee determines the applications.[/QUOTE]

Thanks again Liverdude, you have confirmed what I had surmised.
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Old July 24th, 2005, 08:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sloyne
That is because the people of Liverpool (electorate) do not hold them to account, are satisfied with mediocrity in who they choose to represent them and mediocrity in the built environment.

You are mixing up the council and the city's planning department. It is the latter that has recommended rejection of this proposal, a recommendation that the planning committee may or not go along with at their meeting on August 2.

The planning committee is made up of elected councillors and chaired by councillor from the controlling party on the council. The planning department is occupied by professional planners, whose job is to give informed advice to help the committee make their decisions. Until I see the agenda for the August 2 meeting, I am confounded at what the planners logic might be in recommending this tower for rejection.

What is of concern is the recent spate of stories in the reporting that developers find Liverpool city council executive members to be unapproachable and difficult to set up meeting with, in contrast to what has been reported as Manchester's pro-active and helpful attitude. I'm a bit skeptical about these stories. In some cases I suspect that there is a element of sour grapes from companies whose developments might not have been accepted for good reasons. Nevertheless, there has been so much complaint recently that there probably is something in what is been said and that a change is attitude is needed on the council, and whether the criticism is fair not, it is creating very bad publicity for the council and the city and not do the place any good in attracting investment.
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Old July 24th, 2005, 08:26 PM   #11
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I've just read the minutes of that Waterfront Committee. ******* disgraceful. That lot need dealing with. They are killing the one real chance Liverpool has to regenerate itself and bring in fresh capital and investment - that is now, developers are ready to invest. This is just unbelievable. Who are these people? That Committee needs to be disbanded. It is an affront to the City of Liverpool - do they think they are on some parish council in Dorset?
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Old July 24th, 2005, 08:29 PM   #12
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Area committees exist in many boroughs now. They have very little power.
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Old July 24th, 2005, 10:30 PM   #13
sloyne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awayo
You are mixing up the council and the city's planning department.
But don't the planning committee answer to the peoples elected representatives ? And if the said bureaucrats are in constant opposition to the wishes of the people, through their elected representatives, shouldn't it be time to remove them to stop their obstructionist tactics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aweayo
What is of concern is the recent spate of stories in the reporting that developers find Liverpool city council executive members to be unapproachable and difficult to set up meeting with. I'm a bit skeptical about these stories. In some cases I suspect that there is a element of sour grapes from companies whose developments might not have been accepted for good reasons.
I played in a charity golf tournament on Friday last and within my foursome was an executive from Carrillion a corporation which does a large amount of construction business within the UK. He told me that both Liverpool and Newcastle are the two worst councils to deal with and, Liverpool is worst than Newcastle. So much so that they reccommend clients look elsewhere, if at all possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Awayo
Nevertheless, there has been so much complaint recently that there probably is something in what is been said and that a change is attitude is needed on the council, and whether the criticism is fair not, it is creating very bad publicity for the council and the city and not do the place any good in attracting investment.
And there is never smoke without fire.
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Old July 25th, 2005, 12:59 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sloyne
I played in a charity golf tournament on Friday last and within my foursome was an executive from Carrillion a corporation which does a large amount of construction business within the UK. He told me that both Liverpool and Newcastle are the two worst councils to deal with and, Liverpool is worst than Newcastle. So much so that they reccommend clients look elsewhere, if at all possible.
Interesting. Thanks for that. More evidence that Liverpool CC needs to change its attitude. Nothing will happen until Henshaw retires, I fear. Hopefully this will happen soon.
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Old July 25th, 2005, 05:00 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sloyne
I played in a charity golf tournament on Friday last and within my foursome was an executive from Carrillion a corporation which does a large amount of construction business within the UK. He told me that both Liverpool and Newcastle are the two worst councils to deal with and, Liverpool is worst than Newcastle. So much so that they reccommend clients look elsewhere, if at all possible.
Sloyne, why not email your short story to the DP & Echo. It's a hot topic at the moment and I reckon you'd be in with a good chance of getting that printed. Of course, don't mention Caririllion.
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Old July 25th, 2005, 05:19 PM   #16
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Carillion built Beetham 1, btw.
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Old July 25th, 2005, 05:37 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awayo
Carillion built Beetham 1, btw.
Didn't know that although the person in our group said they had been involved in a number of projects in Liverpool, all of which had either had to have major and, costly, alterations to the original plans or had them rejected completely.
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Old July 25th, 2005, 06:09 PM   #18
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aren't they building unity too??...i'm sure they have a few on the go....anyway why would they have hassles??? they just build the places after approval has been given don't they....?
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Old July 25th, 2005, 06:37 PM   #19
John Matrix 1985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sloyne
But don't the planning committee answer to the peoples elected representatives ? And if the said bureaucrats are in constant opposition to the wishes of the people, through their elected representatives, shouldn't it be time to remove them to stop their obstructionist tactics?

I played in a charity golf tournament on Friday last and within my foursome was an executive from Carrillion a corporation which does a large amount of construction business within the UK. He told me that both Liverpool and Newcastle are the two worst councils to deal with and, Liverpool is worst than Newcastle. So much so that they reccommend clients look elsewhere, if at all possible.

And there is never smoke without fire.
Why did he say that they are the worst in the country?

I used to work for a sales company who sold safety gear to the council, every time they came into our office they all went on about trade unions in the 80's and communism, hated dealing with them, they always wanted something for nothing as well.
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Old July 25th, 2005, 07:17 PM   #20
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Wink No.........

Quote:
Originally Posted by new
aren't they building unity too??...i'm sure they have a few on the go....anyway why would they have hassles??? they just build the places after approval has been given don't they....?
No, Laing O`Rourke are building Unity, Carillion are building City Lofts Towers and the Met Quarter in Whitechapel.
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